News Gotta Pay2Play: Paid FP on the way!

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this is right. They can't afford to get rid of free FP, but the way it works may change. I could see a scenario where FP remains free, but you pay to make reservations further out (like this experiment) or for additional FPs. Or maybe some kind of VIP situation for real $$$$ where you get anytime FPs.

They did neglect the parks for too long after the 'Disney Decade ' and now it's showing. All the stuff they are adding now is playing catch up (not to Uni necessarily, but to their own growth). Epcot is about to become a more compelling park to turn average guest with the addition of at least two new E-Tickets, and possibly more if rumors are to be believed (without getting into the discussion of thematic appropriateness - just thinking about how more major attractions will help crowd flow). MK is getting a new e-ticket, a new people-eater theater, and hopefully a new attraction in the SGE space that will be more popular. Yes it's late, but hopefully it will start to address the crowding problem a bit. I personally think it's likely to, at least in MK and Epcot. DHS is a disaster waiting to happen though, with the demand for Star Wars and the fact that the park still won't have enough other things to do. However, if Disney does replace some of the current shows, makes better use of the sound and TV theaters, even that park may be OK in the long run.

Don't know how it will play out, but I think the next 3-5 years are going to be very interesting. And I'd be fine if they add these few up charges and even raise ticket prices a little more *if* the end result is a better experience all around.

...perfect

 

[Brad Bishop]

What's going to suck is that they're playing "catch up" right now and, when done, will catch-up to about 5 years back thinking they did a good job and they can just do nothing for another 10-15 years.

If they really wanted to fix their attraction deficit problem, we'd all be in awe about what they're doing to every park. We'd think, "HOLY CRAP! I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY'RE DOING ALL OF THAT RIGHT NOW!!!"

That's not what it is, though.. It's just back-filling the deficit to bet them, eventually, up to 2012 or so.

 

[mikejs78]

I wonder how WDW will do with millennials. They are a frugal bunch. 99¢ for an app that does everything? NO! $5/mo for the student price to Spotify? NO!

Things had better be free or nearly so or they aren't interested. They're also pretty good with credit card debt in that many don't even bother getting one.

My daughters fall into this category. They love the Disney of old but question it's value now with increased prices and 15 dormant years. Now they're old enough to pay (24yo & 30yo) and I don't think they'd go unless someone else was footing the bill. I don't see that changing.

The older one even has a kid and I don't think that they have any plans or real desire to go. They'd rather do inexpensive stuff like camping.

I took my grandson back in October (I got free tickets - it's no longer worth it for me, either) and he was:
- excited for the first 30min
- OK with it for about an hour after that
- pushing through for another 30min before asking to head back to the hotel

...yeah, this kid was tired of the MK after just 2 hours. I thought maybe it was the car ride down or something (him being tired) so I took him the next day. 2 hours in and he was done. He was far happier playing with randos in the hotel pool. (off site).

Something else I've realized from all of this is the nostalgia which is likely missing on the grandson. If you think back to when you were a kid you were probably bathed in Disney. You saw the Wonderful World of Disney/Color on TV, lots of movies, exciting things happening (MK being built... then Epcot... then DHS..) or you saw the Disney Channel with constantly pumping out Disney goodness.

I think that's largely absent today. The Disney Channel pumps out pre-teen shows and toddler shows and reruns. There's no "This is what's happening in the parks..."-show like their used to be.. Plus, you have plenty of other entertainment all wanting your eyes.

I see a nostalgia deficit in their future.

I'm not so sure. I don't see this with my son (age 7) and his friends. They've grown up in Pixar, new the good post-2009 Disney movies, Mickey Mouse Clubhouse etc, and Disney world is still seen as this awesome amazing trip. The difference is that when I was a kid, we went every couple of years, now families are going more like every 3-4 years because of the cost.

As far as millennials (which I am not one) it honestly depends on the age. The older millennials are now at the point in their careers where they have more disposal income and are contemplating trips. These older millennials were young kids during the 90s with the whole Disney Renaissance, so there I'd huge nostalgia factor there. There will probably be a gap in nostalgia for kids who grew up in the early 2000s as Disney really wasn't producing good content... But I don't think Disney nostalgia is done quite yet...

 

[mikejs78]

What's going to suck is that they're playing "catch up" right now and, when done, will catch-up to about 5 years back thinking they did a good job and they can just do nothing for another 10-15 years.

If they really wanted to fix their attraction deficit problem, we'd all be in awe about what they're doing to every park. We'd think, "HOLY CRAP! I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY'RE DOING ALL OF THAT RIGHT NOW!!!"

That's not what it is, though.. It's just back-filling the deficit to bet them, eventually, up to 2012 or so.

We don't know everything they are doing or planning though.

 

[xdan0920]

Guys. Try and control yourselves. We have an interesting conversation going about the future of FP. Let's not get bogged down in one posters experiences at other parks, and feelings about WDW, and whatever else can be about them specifically,

 

[larandtra]

I agree that they wont ever get rid of the three free FPs but I do think this is here to stay. You will be able to purchase extra FPs , make ressies and FPs further out, and get a few benefits that you will have to pay for. Its good business and for those who find the value in it, they will certainly use it. I think this will be expanded eventually to DVC, Deluxe, Moderate, and possibly AP holders and based on where you stay will determine what you can add on for a cost. I do not think they will give this to value as an option merely because I do not think that is their focus, nor would you see it taken advantage of a lot. It costs them nothing to add it on for Moderate and above and is basically extra income for the company. People will complain but to the average park goer who doesnt read the boards or keep up with Disney info and just goes once a year or so, this wont have any effect. If they have the option they may or may not use it. But, again, it costs them nothing to do it.

 

[smile]

I just don’t think that lower prices equals better value. I actually think the value would be much worse if current prices were based on past pricing.

while, of course, inter-related, watch out conflating price and value...
as the good sir was alluding to, value is based on many factors not necessarily dependent on price, and is highly subjective.

I always remember this simple quote from Warren B when considering value - "Price is what you pay. Value is what you get."

 

[DryerLintFan]

Don't forget, that book let you ride a very limited number of stellar attractions and a whole lot of less than stellar attractions. E-Tickets were scarce.
What would such a book cost if every ticket were an E-Ticket?

Right now, $299 per person
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/events-tours/ultimate-day-of-thrills-vip-tour/

 

[larryz]

If we are going to go there, though, we have to acknowledge how the system actually worked. Most people bought a ticket book, for one price, which gave them a variety of tickets that pretty much were good for experiencing everything to experience once. It's a similar idea, it's just the concept of "pay one price" with no tickets hadn't really been invented yet for theme parks.

IIRC, there were never enough E tickets in the book... you would have to buy at least 2 books to get to all the E tickets.

 

[ABQ]

Not all AP holders are locals or even Florida Residents. Anyone who goes more than 8 days in a calendar year is better served buying an AP. We dont live in Florida or are a local. We live in GA, so again, it becomes what is the "value" to me. We go on longer trips once a year and a bunch of shorter ones multiple times. Sometimes on those shorter trips, this "add on" actually has value. We rarely do the ride everything trips anymore because we do go so often. But on a shorter trip, the ability to get 6 FPs vs 3 and be able to use them at any park, mix parks etc. Again, its value and value is determined by the individual and their situation.

Yup, I live in freaking New Mexico and have had annual passes for too long to recall. If I were to find myself in SoCal a bit more, I may even consider that crazy pass to enter both coasts parks. It's certainly paid off in terms of, as you said, more than 8 days of value.

 

[flynnibus]

Something else I've realized from all of this is the nostalgia which is likely missing on the grandson. If you think back to when you were a kid you were probably bathed in Disney. You saw the Wonderful World of Disney/Color on TV, lots of movies, exciting things happening (MK being built... then Epcot... then DHS..) or you saw the Disney Channel with constantly pumping out Disney goodness.

Yup... Disney world was the pinnacle of a long relationship between people and Disney. It was a culmination of what your parents knew of Disney... your exposure to the characters and movies... the cable channel was a constant feed of re-enforcement... and going to wdw was a superior vacation experience immersed in this fantasy world you had only visualized in your head. "What would you say to Mickey when you met him?" "Oh that's funny Pluto!"... and Disney world had things you would not find elsewhere attraction wise.

It was the Disney difference.

Since then, others have copied Disney... knocking down the gap... media has splintered 10,000x different ways... expectations of what live or immersive entertainment has changed rapidly... Disney has lessened the experience. All these things draw Disney further and further back into the crowd.

Some of it is purely environmental - but a lot is self inflicted

 

[PatInCT]

I guess we are all getting tired of getting nickeled and dimed (but for twenties and fifties). My wife remarked at our trip there early this week that the standby lines were crawling with long waits for what looked like short lines. The FP+ system has made every other experience w/o them worse. So my family of 4 that paid more for club level could get 6 FP+ in a day? I think the "catch" is that many attractions will be sold out of FP and you can't find 6 attractions in a day that you would want to get onto and use a FP.

 

[21stamps]

while, of course, inter-related, watch out conflating price and value...
as the good sir was alluding to, value is based on many factors not necessarily dependent on price, and is highly subjective.

I always remember this simple quote from Warren B when considering value - "Price is what you pay. Value is what you get."

I completely agree. I think people need to keep that in mind when they complain about prices.

Think about Jimmy Johns on “customer appreciation day”. I went there once, line was wrapped around the side of the building. So, I went next door to Panera and paid $7 for a sandwich instead of wasting my time waiting for a $1 one. Time is more valuable to me.

This is why we shouldn’t want lower prices, and it’s also why so many people are willing t pay more for convenience.. which is why this $50 FP thing will probably be relatively successful.

 

[smile]

Think about Jimmy Johns on “customer appreciation day”. I went there once, line was wrapped around the side of the building. So, I went next door to Panera and paid $7 for a sandwich instead of wasting my time waiting for a $1 one. Time is more valuable to me

lol i remember an almost identical incident... it was a local sub shop having their customer appreciation day with some steep discount and the line was around the building...
people waiting two hours to save $5 on a sandwich - litterally valuing their time at $2.50/hr... other than idiocy or complete boredom, i'll never understand that. but, guess i don't really need to.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I completely agree. I think people need to keep that in mind when they complain about prices.

Think about Jimmy Johns on “customer appreciation day”. I went there once, line was wrapped around the side of the building. So, I went next door to Panera and paid $7 for a sandwich instead of wasting my time waiting for a $1 one. Time is more valuable to me.

This is why we shouldn’t want lower prices, and it’s also why so many people are willing t pay more for convenience.. which is why this $50 FP thing will probably be relatively successful.

The caveat there is wdw needs MASSES to survive and profit...if they outkick their coverage on prices/upsells - something the older/better management was super aware of - if will collapse.

People often web spew "my time is valuable...I'll pay more...I'd love it if there were only 1,000 people in the park!"

...problem there is it would never open if that were the cases. It's not "Luxury"...it needs masses...like it or not.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

lol i remember an almost identical incident... it was a local sub shop having their customer appreciation day with some steep discount and the line was around the building...
people waiting two hours to save $5 on a sandwich - litterally valuing their time at $2.50/hr... other than idiocy or complete boredom, i'll never understand that. but, guess i don't really need to.

...stupid is as stupid does

 

[21stamps]

The caveat there is wdw needs MASSES to survive and profit...if they outkick their coverage on prices/upsells - something the older/better management was super aware of - if will collapse.

People often web spew "my time is valuable...I'll pay more...I'd love it if there were only 1,000 people in the park!"

...problem there is it would never open if that were the cases. It's not "Luxury"...it needs masses...like it or not.

And they have masses now. Even with the price hikes. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And they have masses now. Even with the price hikes. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

They have masses of baby boomers
And Gen Xers...no doubt there.

Looking forward, one Group will be dead soon and the other will get old.

Any idea how much student loan debt there is in this country? Don't assume that the first times are lining up forever like that for that sandwich at Jimmy John's...

 

[jimbaker84]

And they have masses now. Even with the price hikes. I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

And crowds will get even worse when SWL opens next year. Hopefully they'll continue to develop new rides to pick up the slack beyond those already announced at D23 2015/17 to cope with it in the medium to long term.

 

[DryerLintFan]

They have masses of baby boomers
And Gen Xers...no doubt there.

Looking forward, one Group will be dead soon and the other will get old.

Any idea how much student loan debt there is in this country? Don't assume that the first times are lining up forever like that for that sandwich at Jimmy John's...

I don't disagree with this..... but there is still a strong upper middle class that will carry the parks for a good long while.