News Gotta Pay2Play: Paid FP on the way!

[21stamps]

and to think...
if they had been charging anywhere near comparatively, we could have had a sponsor-less epcot center

You guys need to be careful in what you criticize though.. imagine if we did have those prices, would you enjoy not being able to move an inch without bumping into someone?

 

[lazyboy97o]

You guys need to be careful in what you criticize though.. imagine if we did have those prices, would you enjoy not being able to move an inch without bumping into someone?

Those prices were part of a scheme designed to control crowding by utilizing and funding capacity, not a business model built around increasing crowding.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You guys need to be careful in what you criticize though.. imagine if we did have those prices, would you enjoy not being able to move an inch without bumping into someone?

It's hard to maks those types of prognostications in a vacuum.

I try to look at it as "highest average value"...wdw has had many periods where the prices/experience was better or worse relative to inflation than other times. It's been ebb and flow.

I think the 98-2003 era was best value ever...

2013-current is the worst.

 

[21stamps]

It's hard to maks those types of prognostications in a vacuum.

I try to look at it as "highest average value"...wdw has had many periods where the prices/experience was better or worse relative to inflation than other times. It's been ebb and flow.

I think the 98-2003 era was best value ever...

2013-current is the worse.

I just don’t think that lower prices equals better value. I actually think the value would be much worse if current prices were based on past pricing.

 

[smile]

imagine if we did have those prices, would you enjoy not being able to move an inch without bumping into someone?

anywhere near $35 today is flatly absurd - i'd like to think nobody is suggesting that...
and there's always interesting ways to address crowd density that don't price-out your core demographic.

 

[ford91exploder]

Ah, paid FP, The usual suspects were saying I was lying and TDO would NEVER charge for FP

What do we have now, Paid FP

It made no sense Disney spending billions on a FP system unless the ultimate goal was monetizing them.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Pay more for what's really just a standard hotel room because... "Disney MAGIC!!!". Pay a hefty sum to get in to parks that have had little improvement in the past decade. Pay more for lesser quality food. Pay more if you don't want to wait to use the free transportation. Now, pay more if you want more FastPasses than the free system allows. I sense a theme there... But hey, they're spending money on the parks now, after a decade of neglect, that makes everything good, right?

Can't wait to see what TPTB have up their sleeve for ticket prices this year and particularly next year. And to think, some people thought I was crazy for complaining that Mickey Ice Cream Bars went from $3.50 to $5 a little over a year ago. That price increase wasn't out of line at all, was it? Imagine ticket prices going up a commensurate percentage...

 

[Rumourss]

Im normally not a “Walt wouldn’t want this” kinda person, but this is the kind of thing that he wouldn’t do. Then again, he wouldn’t do a lot of things that the company has already done.

 

[AEfx]

Not entirely true. Last year they rolled out Signature Services, which is an exclusive department Club Level access can call to help plan their stay, whether that's dining reservations, VIP tours or anything else. The concierge also has some ability with issuing fast passes and other perks at their discretion. The goal is to provide these guests a level of service they are more accustomed to elsewhere. Not sure a lot of guests wanted to be on the computer at 7am 180 days prior to their vacation to ensure a character meal.

That's great - but the thing is, they just don't have access to any inventory that everyone else has. That's the difference. Paying $1400 extra for a week for "Club" level and for "Signature Services" shouldn't have you booking things six months in advance, period. You should be able to get up, go to the concierge desk, and get a reservation anywhere you want for the same day. That's what those kinds of services are in "the real world".

 

[AEfx]

Exactly. Some people seem to forget that the 'Ticket' ranking system for rides actually meant something financially for guests in the past rather than just vague standards for quality nowadays.

If we are going to go there, though, we have to acknowledge how the system actually worked. Most people bought a ticket book, for one price, which gave them a variety of tickets that pretty much were good for experiencing everything to experience once. It's a similar idea, it's just the concept of "pay one price" with no tickets hadn't really been invented yet for theme parks.

 

[DisneyDaver]

I like what Disney offers by-and-large way more than Universal (having a young child, doubly so) but a day at Universal nearly always feels like a better value and a lot more stress-free to me.

This. Before I had kids (my oldest in 2.5), my visits had slowly transitioned from (a) mostly WDW with a couple days at Universal to (b) all Universal except for 1 day at MK. Now that I have kids, the next trip will be all WDW. WDW is fun, but a lot of work and potentially stressful. Universal feel much more like a vacation (and more like WDW used to be in the 80s and 90s).

 

[jimbaker84]

I wish Disney did. I have zero problem with upcharges. I have a monumentally huge problem with upcharge events happening when the parks can absolutely stay open for all guests.

I don't think anyone has an issue with people paying more for additional experiences or enhancements, it is whenever these upsells are being sold to the detriment of regular park goers who have already paid their money to be there that issues arise. Its like Disney are saying "we'll take those three hours at MK that you've already paid for, but you can buy them back for $75 a ticket".

Closing early wasn't an issue years ago, i can remember the Magic Kingdom closing at 10PM earliest with it being open most nights until midnight. When i was last in MK in August 2017 the place shut just after fireworks at 10PM on all days except for a 7PM close due to a ticketed event. I have noticed a general decrease in opening hours across the parks with the exception of Animal Kingdom which they are actively trying to push due to Pandora.

To me one of the biggest issues is that WDW failed to add capacity with regards to attractions/parks but continued to plough millions into developing timeshares and hotels. Room capacity has increased while attraction capacity has remained largely static until Pandora opened.

 

[I am Timmy]

That's cool... I won't use any of them. [/QUOTE]
You won't? Or you don't......................?

 

[MisterPenguin]

It started with: pay some nominal fee ($5) to enter and then buy a book for $20 or so. Then it morphed into: Pay one price at $25-30/day... If we circle back to pay to ride then they aren't circling back to the nominal fee to enter.

Don't forget, that book let you ride a very limited number of stellar attractions and a whole lot of less than stellar attractions. E-Tickets were scarce.

What would such a book cost if every ticket were an E-Ticket?

That's how you compare apples to apples.

And did the entrance fee give you two-three parades, two nighttime shows including a 15 minute fireworks show, a stage show? (Honestly, I don't know the answer to this one.)

 

[MisterPenguin]

Ah, paid FP, The usual suspects were saying I was lying and TDO would NEVER charge for FP

What do we have now, Paid FP

It made no sense Disney spending billions on a FP system unless the ultimate goal was monetizing them.

As to the point I made upward, there were always ways for those with money to skip the lines: VIP Tours. Catering to the rich has been in play for a long time. This is just another form.

When 'free' FPs are gone and you can only get FPs by paying for them, then you'll be right. Until then, you're wrong.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I just don’t think that lower prices equals better value. I actually think the value would be much worse if current prices were based on past pricing.

Just to be clear: I'm not saying "lower price=better value"...not at all.

I consider "value" to be a mixture of crowds, New construction/experiences, prices relative to similar entertainment activities (hard to find), airline/fuel costs, etc.

The millennium era (immediately following dak opening and downtown expansion) provided what i feel to be the best balance.

Now it's terrible. It's not just the huge price increases...it's combined with how they let the place stagnate for 10 years while doing the price increase.

The crowds rose through natural inflation and the did nothing to prepare for it. People want to laud all the announced construction? Great...but it's about 15 years behind, if we're honest.

 

[larandtra]

Not all AP holders are locals or even Florida Residents. Anyone who goes more than 8 days in a calendar year is better served buying an AP. We dont live in Florida or are a local. We live in GA, so again, it becomes what is the "value" to me. We go on longer trips once a year and a bunch of shorter ones multiple times. Sometimes on those shorter trips, this "add on" actually has value. We rarely do the ride everything trips anymore because we do go so often. But on a shorter trip, the ability to get 6 FPs vs 3 and be able to use them at any park, mix parks etc. Again, its value and value is determined by the individual and their situation.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Don't forget, that book let you ride a very limited number of stellar attractions and a whole lot of less than stellar attractions. E-Tickets were scarce.

What would such a book cost if every ticket were an E-Ticket?

That's how you compare apples to apples.

And did the entrance fee give you two-three parades, two nighttime shows including a 15 minute fireworks show, a stage show? (Honestly, I don't know the answer to this one.)

A fifteen ticket book included five E Tickets. That is ⅓ of the book. That book is twice as many attractions as the 7-8 experiences (attractions, parades, night shows, meet and greets) Disney wants you to have per day today. The smaller sizes ticket books are also greater than 8 tickets.

Throughout the years there were special offers to the Magic Kingdom Club for either any attraction tickets or all day admission. The 1962 Magic Key Ticket Book (10 any attraction tickets) was $4.00 compared to $5.00 for the 15 ticket book.

The nominal entrance fee did include offerings such as parades and fireworks. Those were originally more seasonal but were included when offered. There were also a variety of free shows and musical acts along with a couple of free attractions.

 

[mikejs78]

To be clear...I agree with @21stamps about this...fastpass isn't gonna become a "premium" service. But from a different angle.

They do not have enough ride capacity now...let alone if attendance rises...to survive without it. Fastpass was a way to free up people for the gift shops...fastpass+ is simply a ride rationing system - born out of necessity.

Remember when they said That the bands would "revolutionize the experience and be interactive"? They dropped that pretense the next day...it's about you keeping your reservations. So while you don't have to wait 75 minutes for soarin...I bet statistically a lot use those useless ones you have to book for figment and nemo...

And then a lot of people move on to the showcase or out of the park after.

It's all about distribution...if people don't pay for it...now Then the park reputation will get blown out of the water like the French navy...

It has to be available for all tickets...lest they see how bad the situation really is. They have no more ride capacity now than they did in 2000...and If they get a push from what they're planning...it will be chaos without the computer balancing people.

I think this is right. They can't afford to get rid of free FP, but the way it works may change. I could see a scenario where FP remains free, but you pay to make reservations further out (like this experiment) or for additional FPs. Or maybe some kind of VIP situation for real $$$$ where you get anytime FPs.

They did neglect the parks for too long after the 'Disney Decade ' and now it's showing. All the stuff they are adding now is playing catch up (not to Uni necessarily, but to their own growth). Epcot is about to become a more compelling park to turn average guest with the addition of at least two new E-Tickets, and possibly more if rumors are to be believed (without getting into the discussion of thematic appropriateness - just thinking about how more major attractions will help crowd flow). MK is getting a new e-ticket, a new people-eater theater, and hopefully a new attraction in the SGE space that will be more popular. Yes it's late, but hopefully it will start to address the crowding problem a bit. I personally think it's likely to, at least in MK and Epcot. DHS is a disaster waiting to happen though, with the demand for Star Wars and the fact that the park still won't have enough other things to do. However, if Disney does replace some of the current shows, makes better use of the sound and TV theaters, even that park may be OK in the long run.

Don't know how it will play out, but I think the next 3-5 years are going to be very interesting. And I'd be fine if they add these few up charges and even raise ticket prices a little more *if* the end result is a better experience all around.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Just to be clear: I'm not saying "lower price=better value"...not at all.

I consider "value" to be a mixture of crowds, New construction/experiences, prices relative to similar entertainment activities (hard to find), airline/fuel costs, etc.

The millennium era (immediately following dak opening and downtown expansion) provided what i feel to be the best balance.

Now it's terrible. It's not just the huge price increases...it's combined with how they let the place stagnate for 10 years while doing the price increase.

The crowds rose through natural inflation and the did nothing to prepare for it. People want to laud all the announced construction? Great...but it's about 15 years behind, if we're honest.

I wonder how WDW will do with millennials. They are a frugal bunch. 99¢ for an app that does everything? NO! $5/mo for the student price to Spotify? NO!

Things had better be free or nearly so or they aren't interested. They're also pretty good with credit card debt in that many don't even bother getting one.

My daughters fall into this category. They love the Disney of old but question it's value now with increased prices and 15 dormant years. Now they're old enough to pay (24yo & 30yo) and I don't think they'd go unless someone else was footing the bill. I don't see that changing.

The older one even has a kid and I don't think that they have any plans or real desire to go. They'd rather do inexpensive stuff like camping.

I took my grandson (8yo) back in October (I got free tickets - it's no longer worth it for me, either) and he was:
- excited for the first 30min
- OK with it for about an hour after that
- pushing through for another 30min before asking to head back to the hotel

...yeah, this kid was tired of the MK after just 2 hours. I thought maybe it was the car ride down or something (him being tired) so I took him the next day. 2 hours in and he was done. He was far happier playing with randos in the hotel pool. (off site).

Something else I've realized from all of this is the nostalgia which is likely missing on the grandson. If you think back to when you were a kid you were probably bathed in Disney. You saw the Wonderful World of Disney/Color on TV, lots of movies, exciting things happening (MK being built... then Epcot... then DHS..) or you saw the Disney Channel with constantly pumping out Disney goodness.

I think that's largely absent today. The Disney Channel pumps out pre-teen shows and toddler shows and reruns. There's no "This is what's happening in the parks..."-show like their used to be.. Plus, you have plenty of other entertainment all wanting your eyes.

I see a nostalgia deficit in their future.