Good Bye & Good Riddance To 20K

[Lee]

Re: Re: Good Bye & Good Riddance To 20K

Originally posted by johnvree
Why not just explain to your 4 year old that WDW is really for 30 year old guys, not kids.

Actually, and in all seriousness, it should be for both.
Disney should offer the best possible attractions for all ages.
Keeping in mind, as I have said before:
SOMETHING for everyone...
Not EVERYTHING for everyone.

As for 20K, yeah I miss it. Mostly the image of the subs cruising the lagoon. For the last 10 years they should have kept one parked out there, lit up at night. Great atmosphere.
Someone on another thread mentioned putting one in Seven Seas Lagoon.....BRILLIANT!

 

[DSpear456]

Hey Bairstow, check out www.20kride.com for some great pictures of the ride. I'm going to try and get back into the catwalks sometime this summer and snap some pics.

 

[Chefjason1974]

Originally posted by General Grizz
Okay. Let me try to clarify my point.

Take two films: BEAUTY AND THE BEAST and ATLANTIS.

One was from 1991, the other from 2001, ten years later.

Most Disney fans are saying that, "the new films aren't that good anymore." Some fans from Atlantis might say, "but this is for the NEW Disney generation. . ." etc.

Let's look more into it.

Compare Horizons to Beauty and the Beast:

1. Covered a broad range of interests.
2. Had traditional Disney song and score.
3. Heart warming despite the various settings.

It caters to many an audience, is what I'm saying. Kids who like action-packed space shuttles see a giant one lift off. Parents who value the family settings take interest in the family story of Horizons. Everyone else gets emersed in the heart-warming attraction based on detail.

Beauty and the Beast also featured song, heart, and so many different things that catered to different guests. It had action, romance, comedy (like Horizons). It was Disney.

Compare Atlantis to Mission Space.

1. Focused down on action.
2. No song/score for the audience to carry with them.
3. Cold in setting
4. Focusing on specific interests

This is a bad formula. It now has a lesser potential audience, there is no "heart" throughout the pavilion, it's cold, no song. In these respects, it's not "Disney." Atlantis, too, was a cold setting based on action - no heart, no song, etc.

Mission Space is CERTAINLY a booster, but long-term? Disney will end up having to REPLACE thrill after thrill just to base itself on a new formula.

If Disney could incorporate the original "Beauty and the Beast" - or Lion King or Little Mermaid - Horizons - BALANCE into its new attractions, then there wouldn't be so much a problem.

In fact, you could compare Splash Mountain. A balance of traditional characters, songs, and thrill. It's perfect.

And I think if new attractions could follow this old model, the basis while retaining novelty - why, that would be just great.

WOW Grizz you really do feel strongly!

I appreciate your input!
My bad for mentioning horizons in my first thread!
The analogy of MS/Horizons to Beauty & The Beast/Atlantis is perfect. I also feel that way about the movies you mentioned.
my only objective in this thread was to show that WDW needs to think about the new generation & that they are taking the crrect steps to do so. Again sorry i even mentioned horizons:veryconfu

 

[Chefjason1974]

Re: Re: Re: Good Bye & Good Riddance To 20K

[For example, speakers and pipes can be seen all along the 2003 Mission Space queue roof. . . but where can you find this in the entire 1989 Wonders of Life pavilion? [/B][/QUOTE]

Okay this makes no sense sorry grizz explain this 1:veryconfu

 

[Bairstow]

Wow, what a cool site, Spear. Thanks for the link. It's especially impressive that Gurr himself has commented on the pictures. Now THERE'S a man who puts the "engineer" in "imagineer". Gurr is such a fascinating man, and I remember reading every word he's written for Laughing Place, including the account of those subs being built/wired. It's so interesting to read about the nitty-gritty real-world aspect of what it took to make Disney theme parks work. What I wouldn't do for a chance to knock back a few beers with that guy.

Oh, and is it just me or is the time ripe for a 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea movie theatrical re-release? between Van Hellsing, the League of Extraodinary Gentleman, and the upcoming Around the World in 80 Days, the steampunk genre is really beginning to blossom in American cinema, and if there's any Disney live-action movie that accurately reflects the sensibilites and tastes of modern pop culture, this is it. How many other Disney movies can you think of where the main character is a homicidal technocrat eco-terrorist?

And while I'm on a rant, the Disney 20K movie, THAT'S how you do Jules Venre-style steampunk movie props. These days it all seems to be done with CGI, which is totally counter-intiutive... like that giant metal spider in Wild Wild West. What was that supposed to be? If you can't build steampunk gadgerty with modern mills and servos, don't bother, because no one will believe it. Heh, I bet Gurr could tell you that.

 

[KaliSplash]

Well, I miss 20K. And I never saw the movie. I did do the ride several times though. Frankly, given the extraordinary effects on most other rides, I was disappointed, especially in the open lagoon part, when you could look up and see that you were a foot under water and you could see the wires.
But as a submarine fan, I liked just the lingo in the spiel, etc. this is what you do to launch a submarine and bring it back.
Having said all that, I'm much more upset by the loss of "If You Had Wings", (and "Buzz Lightyear" is addicting) "Magic Carpet Round the World" (though I LOVE "Timekeeper"), "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride", "Legend of the Lion King", and the 'lurk, lurk,' joke in the old pre-show of the Tiki Birds.
And that's just the Magic Kingdom. Over at Epcot, I miss the Cronkite version of "Spaceship Earth", the original song and Dreamfinder in "Journey Into Imagination", the original music in "Listen to the Land", "Kitchen Kaberet", and "Food Rocks", and espeically Horizons and World of Motion. (And I'm a BIG fan of "Mission:Space", and "Test Track." Ellen is an improvement at the Univere of Energy, but I miss the two original songs in the attraction.
My point, of course, as I've said before, is we should ADD attractions, and replace old ones as a last resort.
And most of all, bring back "The Main Street Electrical Parde."

 

[Chefjason1974]

Re: Re: Good Bye & Good Riddance To 20K

Originally posted by johnvree
Why not just explain to your 4 year old that WDW is really for 30 year old guys, not kids.

In fact, why don't you make a list of attractions that YOU think are good, this way we all know what to go on. :hammer:

Does anyone possibly think that the indy race car ride thing is Disney quality!?!

I can ride a better version of this at Malibu for $3.99 Get a clue Johnvree This ride needs to be replaced or made better! especially considering that tommorowland is so congested!

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Well, for starters Chef, sounds like the only one with blood boiling is YOU!!! No one here is disputing your OPINION, that it was time for 20k leagues to go, but there is another side to this discussion. Those of us here who are more traditional in our views of what makes DISNEY what it is, makes our opinions differ from yours. There's nothing wrong with change, and progress, as it is part of life. But sometimes change for the sake of change can be a mistake. You mentioned the Pooh attraction. Not a big Pooh fan here, and if you look at merchandising in not only the park stores, but Disney Stores in particular, you'll see a scary trend. 60-80% Pooh. Sorry, but it didn't start with a bear. Point is, the traditional values that Mr. Disney espoused have been lost in all the hoopla and argument about turning DW into a "thrill ride" park, versus a more traditional park as it once was. You also mentioned that you want your children to grow up with memories they can relate to, as we did. Well, I don't know about you, but I don't want to see the "Britney Spears" attraction, or the "American Idol" movie ride. And somehow, I just don't see the redeeming qualities in those types of things. And to say nothing of the absolutely "horrible" cartoons they have on television these days. There's no originality in television anymore. Nor in the movies. Just a regurgitation of old themes, done by todays actors/actresses.

Herein lies the whole argument over how the company has been run in recent times. The direction you see taken by the company in the business aspect of the company tends to trickle down to the theme parks. Or maybe it's even visa versa. Don't know cause I don't work at a park.

Again, change can be a good thing. But if the tradition and values of the founder of the company are lost forever, then is it really a place for families/or where you want to take your children. I don't know about you, but I don't want DW to be like every other theme park out there. I want it to be different and stand alone, as the outstanding, traditional, family-oriented theme park that it has always been to me.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Good Bye & Good Riddance To 20K

Originally posted by Chefjason1974
For example, speakers and pipes can be seen all along the 2003 Mission Space queue roof. . . but where can you find this in the entire 1989 Wonders of Life pavilion?

Okay this makes no sense sorry grizz explain this 1:veryconfu

He's talking about the quality of M:S's "show" compared to the WoL pavilion. Speakers and pipes should be hidden unless they blend in with the story being presented--otherwise, they pull folks out of the fantasy and plop them back down in the (dum dum DUM) real world.

(For the record, I haven't noticed these things at M:S, but I don't have the biggest eye for detail, either.)

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Tell ya what chef, why don't we just plop down some new roller coasters so YOUR children will have fun as they get older. Just level the whole place and start from scratch. Get Disney to hire you on as a consultant. Or mayyyyyyybeeee, hmmmm. I know. Maybe you could sit down with your kids, and explain the history of Walt Disney and Disney World to them, so they'll have a better understanding of the traditions, values, and history of the man and HIS company. As for the Indy ride, it's called TRADITION. Is it me, or have you got some issues with traditional values? What exacltly is it that you actually LIKE about WDW? And by the way, if you don't like anything about it, Universal is right across town isn't it?

Now I know that communicating with our children these days is a lost art, but it can be fun. But let me see if I understand. Disney should change their attractions every generation based on the "most popular" things that kids are into right? Hmmm, it'll only cost about $500. for a 1 day single park ticket by that time, what with all the $100 million and up attractions that will be getting built every 10-20 years.

GREAT IDEA!!!

 

[Disney Hog]

Oh, and is it just me or is the time ripe for a 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea movie theatrical re-release? between Van Hellsing, the League of Extraodinary Gentleman, and the upcoming Around the World in 80 Days, the steampunk genre is really beginning to blossom in American cinema, and if there's any Disney live-action movie that accurately reflects the sensibilites and tastes of modern pop culture, this is it.

There is a new 20K movie that is airing on the Sci-Fi Channel. I'm not sure how good the quality is or who is in it. If you want you can check it out. I think it will be on this Saturday Night. FYI

 

[raven]

Although I agree 20K did nothing for me and I thought it was very hokey, I understand why people are sad to see the lagoon go. I just don't want the area to be used for something completely useless. The Meet & Greet sounds hokey as well. I think Toontown does a fine job of that already and it's easy for guests to pass if they want. However having the Meet & Greet smack in the middle of the park means that all guests will have to go through the throngs of screaming children and angry parents several times during the day. Not something I am looking forward to.

 

[scottnj1966]

You missed the point on why people are upset about losing older rides

Originally posted by Chefjason1974
I knew this thread would get the angry members blood boiling!
But I still think I make a valid argument!

Relax its just for fun!

At least it is for me!!!

Many of use grew up going to the parks with our parents and family. Many of the older rides were part of memories.
It is a terrible feeling losing something you remember from your chidhood, its even worse when they take it away and dont replace it.

For as large as disney is (and there profits) there was no reason to close any of them. 20,000 leagues was alwasy busy, so was mr toads, etc etc.

Everyone has there favorites and there worst rides but dont think just because you didnt like it no one else did.

 

[mkt]

this thread is funny...

please continue..

 

[General Grizz]

Originally posted by mkt
this thread is funny...

please continue..

OK!


As for Indy, I think it's really out of place. I would retheme the whole area and make it more "unique" to the Tomorrowland/Toontown area.

 

[DisneyFan 2000]

Well, here's what I think!

To start off, I've never been on the 20K sub-ride and I've only seen pictures of the outside submarine! The thing is, I already miss it! Why? Because I prefer quality rides over a meet-and-greet area! Everyone on this board knows Disney can do better! Putting a character meeting spot is just PATHETIC!!!! I mean, do all of your memories really come from seeing characters?

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way asking for an E-ticket (although badly needed) but something with QUALITY and meaning to it! This isn't to much to ask for! When Disney raise the bar they need to keep at it, not step down a level!

This IMO and I find it hard to believe that Disney fans encourage a meet-and-greet area over quality attractions! If this is the "new" generation, I'll pass! :hammer: :hurl:

 

[got2lovedisney]

OK...I'm probably going to get flamed for this but I have to say it...

Although the only memory I have of the 20K ride was a cockroach I saw in there once, I do NOT want to see another meet and greet area. The area has potential. I would've liked to see and technologically updated 20K ride but def not a M&G!

I remeber the good stuff that is gone too! I liked Mr. Toad but Think Pooh Is better suited for today's audience. World of motion was good too but Test Track Is Way Better!! Anyone Not happy with what replaced Horizons has got to be insane!!!! I thought The Tiki Room was good, But Now The New Story will Maintain my 4 y.o. attention & Create new memories for her. This is more important than my own memories anyday!!!

"Pooh is better suited to today's audience." Your opinion only...my DD hates Pooh. Says he's a pervert who doesn't wear pants.

Although Mission:SPACE is an amazing ride...I won't be going on it again and, from what I hear, neither will a few people out there. So this change had limited the audience where Horizons appealed to everyone.

Tiki Birds? My DD liked the old version (and that song too!!)

You mention maintaining your 4year old's attention...THERE IS A WHOLE "LAND" GEARED TO YOUR 4 YEAR OLD! It's called Toontown. Don't get me wrong...I have nothing against the little ankle-bitters (got one myself) but we've already lost Alien Encounters and Mr.Toad to them.(They should've gotten rid of SnowWhite) Some of the rides SHOULD be geared to adults...we're the ones with the $$$$$!! If I'm going to take off a week from work and spend my hard earned cash, there had better be something there for me too cuz otherwise what's the incentive to drive to Disney? I can just take her somewhere local and cheaper. Besides...what about the solo travelers and empty nesters? Should Disney alienate them too?

Lets talk about what i wrote not as greedy nostalgia hounds. But, as people with kids. Kids who need & deserve Disney memories even more than we do. Like I said this is why tired old rides need to change. Not for money but because i want my daughter to have the same feeling about WDW as i do & without rides that cater to her it WILL NOT HAPPEN!! Think about the world when you grew up. Then think about the world that our children are growing up in & you will see what i mean! Disney has always been a safe escape for me even in my memories! Children today need this more than ever!

You say kids need & deserve Disney memories? Well...I'm a Disney kid too. I've been going to Disney at least twice a year since I was 3. Why should your kid "deserve Disney memories even more than we do"? To take my DD's word...maybe you've lost your childhood spirit but I've still got mine. And I'm passing it on to her just the way my parents passed it on to me. Sometimes it's nice to SHARE memories about rides we've all ridden together in 3 different generations. Memories shouldn't be strictly generation specific. How would you even know you were in the same place?


**And now back to our regularly scheduled program** :zipit:
(I apologize in advance if this offends anyone...or do I?) :goodnevil )

 

[johnvree]

Re: Re: Re: Good Bye & Good Riddance To 20K

Originally posted by Chefjason1974
Does anyone possibly think that the indy race car ride thing is Disney quality!?!

I can ride a better version of this at Malibu for $3.99 Get a clue Johnvree This ride needs to be replaced or made better! especially considering that tommorowland is so congested!

You don't have to convince me. I have no desire to ride Indy with you. I think it's your 4 year old that you need to use your powers of persuasion on. If you are successful, then maybe you can get out of all of those other stupid kiddie rides like Dumbo, IASW, Pooh and Peter Pan.

Don't think for a second, Chefjason, that you are bringing your kids to WDW. Your kids are bringing you.

 

[dizneeboy]

my 5 year old nephew loves the Indy cars...

 

[Chefjason1974]

"I just hope they replace 20k with something worthy of its valuable & Prime Fantasyland neighborhood Property Value!!"
Original quote from my thread!!

Please read the whole thing thencomment people!!!

Does anyone even read what is written??

I am against a meet & greet!!!:wave: :hammer: :hammer:

I think the area is too valuable for such a lame attraction!!
But, put a new storied dark ride. Maybe BEauty & beast, Or Change it to be a finding nemo Under sea adventure!! This is what i am talking about!! Not a shop or meet & greet!!

P.S. The General is usually right on!!