GM Out, Cars In?

[Missing20K]

1st time for everything (n i dont get the joke b/c im slow :hammer

tru, but like walt has said, educating is secondary, but after reading the posts from most other people, they strongly imply it not only should be but is primary although they are sadly mistaken (or happily in my case b/c the last time i went to the science museum to have 'fun' learning was when i was forced to at work (i worked in an aftercare program)

a secondary note about TT, i find it informative, b/c before i went on TT not only did I not know the tests they put the seperate equipement under, but also the car as a whole, i learned even if i wasnt "told they were doing it". The queue of TT is WAY more informative then al of the imagenation pavilion (imo)

....just my two pennies....

Just a tip. You should really proofread your posts, they are difficult to comprehend sometimes. Punctuation, capitalization, grammar, and spelling do wonders.

You seem to contradict yourself a bit. You start by saying learning should be secondary (no problem with this) and that, essentially, you cannot have "fun" learning. (Please correct me if I misunderstood anything) You go on to say that the only time you tried to have "fun" while learning was when you went to a science museum as required by your job. However, in the next paragraph? you go on to say how much you learned while on TT. I assume you also had fun while on TT. So where is the problem with trying to have "fun" while learning, and "learn" while having fun?

I can't figure out if you are for "fun learning" or against it.

I guess my question is did you have "fun" learning on TT? If so, why would it be such a problem to have attractions that continue this trend?

On a side note: What did animals ever do to you? :animwink:

 

[goodtimes5286]

Just a tip. You should really proofread your posts, they are difficult to comprehend sometimes. Punctuation, capitalization, grammar, and spelling do wonders.

You seem to contradict yourself a bit. You start by saying learning should be secondary (no problem with this) and that, essentially, you cannot have "fun" learning. (Please correct me if I misunderstood anything) You go on to say that the only time you tried to have "fun" while learning was when you went to a science museum as required by your job. However, in the next paragraph? you go on to say how much you learned while on TT. I assume you also had fun while on TT. So where is the problem with trying to have "fun" while learning, and "learn" while having fun?

I can't figure out if you are for "fun learning" or against it.

I guess my question is did you have "fun" learning on TT? If so, why would it be such a problem to have attractions that continue this trend?

On a side note: What did animals ever do to you? :animwink:

First off im sorry i have terrible grammar and spelling, it happens

Second I was mainly referring to the people on wdwmagic who always moan and groan that epcot should be all about learning and there isnt enough learning.

Personally, i could careless if there is learning there or not, and I didn't say the last time I tried to have fun learning was at the science museum lol. I said that the last time i was AT the science museum was bla bla bla, I STILL didnt have fun, it was boring. Why do people insist on trying to turn epcot into a science museum or an aquarium, there are places for that. Sea world is a big example, if you want fun and education about animals, that is what there all about, but Walt didn't conceptualize Epcot as the school of the future, it was the city of the future meant to entertain, and if they came away learning something, then he was happy (as I posted that quote earlier)

The thing I said about Test Track was because people above said that "you dont learn anything on Test Track, how is it educational?" But the fact of the matter is that it IS educational, not from the books in classroom standpoint, but it educates people who are not in the auto bussiness ABOUT cars and the industry.

Once again I never said there is anything wrong with an education adventure combo, BUT getting all ed because epcot decided to add some thrills and cut back on the education is ridicules.

What I'm against is people who think epcot should be all lecture and no play, it's PLAY that should come first and if people happen to go away smarter, then so be it, but it should be secondary.

On a side note, animals did nothing to me I just dont get it. Don't get this picture of me like I go around kicking dogs or something b/c I dont, I just dont understand animals. Why take a creature, out of the wild, domesticate it and FORCE it to live in your domain while punishing it when it acts on its natural instincts? I dont get animals, if you feel your missing so much in your life that you need to force something to be with you, then you need to look elsewhere. Now I'm not saying pets cant get used to it and learn to love and care for someone who directly holds the key to there survival, but I call it as I see it. I wouldn't want someone telling me where to go and what to do when and what to eat and where to crap, leave me alone. Just like I don't get hunting, like you said 'what they hell did they ever do to you?'

I stay over here, and animals stay over there, that is all

 

[jt04]

First off im sorry i have terrible grammar and spelling, it happens

Second I was mainly referring to the people on wdwmagic who always moan and groan that epcot should be all about learning and there isnt enough learning.

Personally, i could careless if there is learning there or not, and I didn't say the last time I tried to have fun learning was at the science museum lol. I said that the last time i was AT the science museum was bla bla bla, I STILL didnt have fun, it was boring. Why do people insist on trying to turn epcot into a science museum or an aquarium, there are places for that. Sea world is a big example, if you want fun and education about animals, that is what there all about, but Walt didn't conceptualize Epcot as the school of the future, it was the city of the future meant to entertain, and if they came away learning something, then he was happy (as I posted that quote earlier)

The thing I said about Test Track was because people above said that "you dont learn anything on Test Track, how is it educational?" But the fact of the matter is that it IS educational, not from the books in classroom standpoint, but it educates people who are not in the auto bussiness ABOUT cars and the industry.

Once again I never said there is anything wrong with an education adventure combo, BUT getting all ed because epcot decided to add some thrills and cut back on the education is ridicules.

What I'm against is people who think epcot should be all lecture and no play, it's PLAY that should come first and if people happen to go away smarter, then so be it, but it should be secondary.

On a side note, animals did nothing to me I just dont get it. Don't get this picture of me like I go around kicking dogs or something b/c I dont, I just dont understand animals. Why take a creature, out of the wild, domesticate it and FORCE it to live in your domain while punishing it when it acts on its natural instincts? I dont get animals, if you feel your missing so much in your life that you need to force something to be with you, then you need to look elsewhere. Now I'm not saying pets cant get used to it and learn to love and care for someone who directly holds the key to there survival, but I call it as I see it. I wouldn't want someone telling me where to go and what to do when and what to eat and where to crap, leave me alone. Just like I don't get hunting, like you said 'what they hell did they ever do to you?'

I stay over here, and animals stay over there, that is all

Ah, so you don't hate animals you hate people who domesticate animals. Is that correct? Or do you hate animals no matter where they are?

 

[HMF]

learning something, then he was happy (as I posted that quote earlier)

The thing I said about Test Track was because people above said that "you dont learn anything on Test Track, how is it educational?" But the fact of the matter is that it IS educational, not from the books in classroom standpoint, but it educates people who are not in the auto bussiness ABOUT cars and the industry.

I have never bad-mouthed Test Track. (In fact I have never seen Epcot without it.)

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

The thing I said about Test Track was because people above said that "you dont learn anything on Test Track, how is it educational?" But the fact of the matter is that it IS educational, not from the books in classroom standpoint, but it educates people who are not in the auto bussiness ABOUT cars and the industry.

Technically, yes, it is educational in that regard, but you really don't learn anymore than you do from your average car commercial.

 

[CrashNet]

Its always interesting to see the topic of the thread at the beginning and where it ends up by the last post...

Anyway, to the original topic...one thing to consider, and I did not read the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but if Cars were overlayed onto Test Track it would stick out like a sore thumb in Epcot *coughnemocoughcough*. No e-ticket attraction in Future world has Disney/Pixar character theming.

 

[markjohns1]

Having read through a lot of the responses, it seems the original Epcot Center attractions follow a similar series of events:

1. Lose sponsorship (Contract ends... have any sponsors pulled out early?)
2. TDO neglects attractions
3. Attendance falls
4. TDO removes all marketing regarding the attraction so no one knows it's there
5. Attendance falls further
6. Attraction gets shuttered
7. Something "inferior" replaces it
8. Surveys are "administered" to back up the decisions already made
9. ???
10. Profit

I know the blame always gets put on TDO and TWDC leadership (some of which is surely deserved), but the issues always seem to start from sponsorship ending. Is there a reason that the sponsors don't renew or continue the sponsorship contracts? Generally, if an attraction continued to be popular, sponsorship would continue. Did Disney scare them away asking for more money? Or did the sponsors not see the attendance numbers they wanted for the money they were investing? I would think at least some of the cases of lost sponsorship must have been due to declining popularity prior to the contract ending.

 

[jt04]

Having read through a lot of the responses, it seems the original Epcot Center attractions follow a similar series of events:

1. Lose sponsorship (Contract ends... have any sponsors pulled out early?)
2. TDO neglects attractions
3. Attendance falls
4. TDO removes all marketing regarding the attraction so no one knows it's there
5. Attendance falls further
6. Attraction gets shuttered
7. Something "inferior" replaces it
8. Surveys are "administered" to back up the decisions already made
9. ???
10. Profit

I know the blame always gets put on TDO and TWDC leadership (some of which is surely deserved), but the issues always seem to start from sponsorship ending. Is there a reason that the sponsors don't renew or continue the sponsorship contracts? Generally, if an attraction continued to be popular, sponsorship would continue. Did Disney scare them away asking for more money? Or did the sponsors not see the attendance numbers they wanted for the money they were investing? I would think at least some of the cases of lost sponsorship must have been due to declining popularity prior to the contract ending.

You forgot the "goes seasonal" step. As in "Sounds Dangerous w/ Drew Carey" is now seasonal :lookaroun

 

[JWG]

You forgot the "goes seasonal" step. As in "Sounds Dangerous w/ Drew Carey" is now seasonal :lookaroun

And by seasonal, we mean open on New Year's Eve and Day only for 2 years before shuttering completely.

Seriously, if someone could remind me what seasonally means since Sounds Dangerous was closed in July (???) creating chaos for all of the tour groups who's travel schedule was thrown off and in February over President's and Daytona weekend.

 

[yankspy]

1st time for everything (n i dont get the joke b/c im slow :hammer

tru, but like walt has said, educating is secondary, but after reading the posts from most other people, they strongly imply it not only should be but is primary although they are sadly mistaken (or happily in my case b/c the last time i went to the science museum to have 'fun' learning was when i was forced to at work (i worked in an aftercare program)

a secondary note about TT, i find it informative, b/c before i went on TT not only did I not know the tests they put the seperate equipement under, but also the car as a whole, i learned even if i wasnt "told they were doing it". The queue of TT is WAY more informative then al of the imagenation pavilion (imo)

....just my two pennies....

First, let me say that I agree that education should be secondary in Epcot. Now let me see if I can convey what the point is for many Epcot Center fans.

I was eight years old when Epcot opened and I was lucky enough to see it then. It was the first place that I had seen or used a touch screen. It was the first place where I heard about solar energy. It was the first place where I played around with electronic paint brushes and such. It was the first time that I had seen fiber optic cable, video phones, and plants growing without soil. Did I fully comprehend such things at eight, no, but it still fascinated me. It filled me excitement about the countless possibilities for the future.

I grew up in Flushing, Queens so I was constantly hearing about Worlds fairs from my parents and grandparents. "Yep, I saw a color TV for the first time at the worlds fair in 64".

That is how I remember Epcot. It was a fun place to see the latest innovative ideas. I just feel like the place has somewhat lost that feeling.

 

[Missing20K]

First off im sorry i have terrible grammar and spelling, it happens

Second I was mainly referring to the people on wdwmagic who always moan and groan that epcot should be all about learning and there isnt enough learning.

Personally, i could careless if there is learning there or not, and I didn't say the last time I tried to have fun learning was at the science museum lol. I said that the last time i was AT the science museum was bla bla bla, I STILL didnt have fun, it was boring. Why do people insist on trying to turn epcot into a science museum or an aquarium, there are places for that. Sea world is a big example, if you want fun and education about animals, that is what there all about, but Walt didn't conceptualize Epcot as the school of the future, it was the city of the future meant to entertain, and if they came away learning something, then he was happy (as I posted that quote earlier)

The thing I said about Test Track was because people above said that "you dont learn anything on Test Track, how is it educational?" But the fact of the matter is that it IS educational, not from the books in classroom standpoint, but it educates people who are not in the auto bussiness ABOUT cars and the industry.

Once again I never said there is anything wrong with an education adventure combo, BUT getting all ed because epcot decided to add some thrills and cut back on the education is ridicules.

What I'm against is people who think epcot should be all lecture and no play, it's PLAY that should come first and if people happen to go away smarter, then so be it, but it should be secondary.

On a side note, animals did nothing to me I just dont get it. Don't get this picture of me like I go around kicking dogs or something b/c I dont, I just dont understand animals. Why take a creature, out of the wild, domesticate it and FORCE it to live in your domain while punishing it when it acts on its natural instincts? I dont get animals, if you feel your missing so much in your life that you need to force something to be with you, then you need to look elsewhere. Now I'm not saying pets cant get used to it and learn to love and care for someone who directly holds the key to there survival, but I call it as I see it. I wouldn't want someone telling me where to go and what to do when and what to eat and where to crap, leave me alone. Just like I don't get hunting, like you said 'what they hell did they ever do to you?'

I stay over here, and animals stay over there, that is all

Fair enough. I was misunderstood a bit, thank you for clearing that up. And I tend to agree to an extent. There are places exclusively for "learning" of a more intensive nature. Epcot is not one of those places, in my opinion. It is, however, a unique place in that it is able to inject some education into an otherwise "fun" atmosphere, and does it in such a way that the "education" is not force fed upon the guests.

Oh, and that post was much easier to read. Well said, and your points were clear. Now was that so hard? :animwink:

 

[Missing20K]

First, let me say that I agree that education should be secondary in Epcot. Now let me see if I can convey what the point is for many Epcot Center fans.

I was eight years old when Epcot opened and I was lucky enough to see it then. It was the first place that I had seen or used a touch screen. It was the first place where I heard about solar energy. It was the first place where I played around with electronic paint brushes and such. It was the first time that I had seen fiber optic cable, video phones, and plants growing without soil. Did I fully comprehend such things at eight, no, but it still fascinated me. It filled me excitement about the countless possibilities for the future.

I grew up in Flushing, Queens so I was constantly hearing about Worlds fairs from my parents and grandparents. "Yep, I saw a color TV for the first time at the worlds fair in 64".

That is how I remember Epcot. It was a fun place to see the latest innovative ideas. I just feel like the place has somewhat lost that feeling.

Great post, couldn't agree more. While I'm not as old, I too, remember the amazing sites, sounds, and experiences of EPCOT Center the first few times I went as a young child.

It was an inspiring, innovative, and totally mind-blowing experience, especially for a wide-eyed child. And I agree, that in recent times, it has lost a good bit of that "feel" the park had in the past.

 

[jakeman]

Great post, couldn't agree more. While I'm not as old, I too, remember the amazing sites, sounds, and experiences of EPCOT Center the first few times I went as a young child.

It was an inspiring, innovative, and totally mind-blowing experience, especially for a wide-eyed child. And I agree, that in recent times, it has lost a good bit of that "feel" the park had in the past.

Maybe the park hasn't lost that feeling. Maybe you are not a child anymore?

Perhaps the problem is not the content, but that you are not the target age?

 

[yankspy]

Great post, couldn't agree more. While I'm not as old, I too, remember the amazing sites, sounds, and experiences of EPCOT Center the first few times I went as a young child.

It was an inspiring, innovative, and totally mind-blowing experience, especially for a wide-eyed child. And I agree, that in recent times, it has lost a good bit of that "feel" the park had in the past.

Thanks. I would love them to put in a modern major attraction that had that "feel". Don't get me wrong I enjoy a lot of the newer stuff, I just feel that some of it is misplaced. Nemo would be great for fantasyland or pixar place. Soarin would fit in quite nicely in world showcase. Imagine "soarin over Japan, Germany, etc."

 

[yankspy]

Maybe the park hasn't lost that feeling. Maybe you are not a child anymore?

Perhaps the problem is not the content, but that you are not the target age?

I have considered that and I am sure that is part of it but I feel that it should still be a place that showcases new ideas. It still does to some extent but I wish all the attractions followed that Mantra.

 

[pacochran]

Just read in the paper this morning the GM is no longer going to back the Documentary Direct Ken Burns in his projects anymore after the one he is currently working on. Wonder if the announcement for Test Track will be far behind.

 

[FutureCEO]

I haven't read the whole thread....too lazy...but GM will not renew their contract. Why? Their bledding billions every quarter and thats with the governments help. So GM is going to want to save money (to pay their CEO) so Disney is going to be out. I seriously think that one of the new big three (Honda, Toyota, Nissan). And The Cars retheming idea is just stupid. I mean talk about out of place.


*Off topic*

Speaking of out of place...character buffets in Epcot. I mean...its Epcot...its not meant for character buffets