Get Over It!

[Dr Albert Falls]

To all the people moaning the loss of Alien Encounter-- Get over it!

To all the people still moaning about the loss of Horizons and World of Motion-- Get over it!

To all the people still complaining about Journey Into Imagination-- Get over it!

I don't know how many posts I've read along the lines of "Disney is a bunch of morons. They have no idea what they're doing. They don't realize how popular attraction (fill in the blank) is."

First of all, it's DISNEY's attractions, not ours! They take the hourly turnstyle count. They tally the guest complaints/compliments each day. They know these attractions better than ANY of us "armchair quarterbacks".

Second-- Disney is not going to spend money where they don't need to. Why on God's Earth would they cough up $100 million (money that could have gone to shareholders and Eisner) to replace Horizons? Same with the millions spent on Test Track, and the millions they'll spend on Stitch Escape. Why? Because, for reasons us "outsiders" aren't privy to know--- they need to spend this money to make money. And the only way a theme park can make money is to keep people pouring into the turnstyles. And the only way they can do that is to build (hopefully) popular attractions while eliminating the unpopular ones.

Third-- Babe Ruth struck out a few times. And so has Disney. Yes, the first Journey Into Imagination makeover was a huge mistake. The current version was an admission of that mistake--where another few million was spent trying to make it presentable again. In hindsight, I'm sure Disney would have preferred to KEEP the ORIGINAL JII, or at least combine the budgets of the first and second makeovers to make it much more spectacular.

But--looking at the big picture-- JII was one strikeout in a game FULL of home runs. Animal Kingdom (and Animal Kingdom Lodge), Fantasmic, Rock-n-Roller Coaster, Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin, The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, Test Track, Mission:Space, and most recently, Philharmagic---- all in the past FIVE years!

Disney STILL has the magic touch.

(Aladdin's Flying Carpets and Dino-Rama were never INTENDED to be home runs-- so don't confuse em. But they're pretty good singles. Better than nothing.)

Yes, I know some will take exception to the examples I've listed. But with hour-long waits for most of the attractions, positive buzz in the theme park industry, and the fact that the parks still get packed---- Disney is doing SOMETHING right.

Who in the heck are WE to second-guess the largest and most successful entertainment company in the world?

"But its up to us diehard Disney fans to remind the company who its audience is!", some will say.

You know what? You vote with your wallets.

The fact that you've spent three minutes reading my post right now on a Disney fan site makes me think you have NO problem shelling over your hard-earned cash at the WDW ticket booth.

Go ahead. Slam "Stitch Escape" before its formally announced yet. Stage a sit-in on AE's last night (maybe put on your old "Save Mr. Toad" tee-shirts that worked so successfully last time!) Continue to walk past Mission:Space in "protest" of Horizons.

Or...... just Get Over It! (and have a fun day)

 

[mkt]

I concur!

 

[Woody13]

I agree too! I rode Mission Space last week and it's a another spinner.

 

[darthdarrel]

The loss of Alien encounter? I didn`t know it was gone! :lookaroun

 

[mikedvcmember]

Babe Ruth struck out a few times................................



i agree with you totally but i hope you didnt jinx us redsox fans with only a handfull of games left in the regular season we should never bring that name up around this time of year :hammer:







11 days to go

 

[GrumpysGal]

Originally posted by mikedvcmember
Babe Ruth struck out a few times................................



i agree with you totally but i hope you didnt jinx us redsox fans with only a handfull of games left in the regular season we should never bring that name up around this time of year :hammer:







11 days to go

The BABE RUTH curse..I am hopeful it will not affect the SOX this year! LOL GO RED SOX!

I also agree with the topic. Change is a good thing....let's be happy everyone!

 

[ogryn]

Finally, someone with the sense to tell it like it is...

Thanks Dr Falls

 

[Enderikari]

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls

Second-- Disney is not going to spend money where they don't need to. Why on God's Earth would they cough up $100 million (money that could have gone to shareholders and Eisner) to replace Horizons? Same with the millions spent on Test Track, and the millions they'll spend on Stitch Escape. Why? Because, for reasons us "outsiders" aren't privy to know--- they need to spend this money to make money. And the only way a theme park can make money is to keep people pouring into the turnstyles. And the only way they can do that is to build (hopefully) popular attractions while eliminating the unpopular ones.


The fact that you've spent three minutes reading my post right now on a Disney fan site makes me think you have NO problem shelling over your hard-earned cash at the WDW ticket booth.

Well, Dr. Falls, I both agree and disagree with you. First of all, you a very correct in that Disney does know more about its own business than anybody else in the world, and in knowing about the business, is able to make better financial decisions to expand Walt Disney World's profits. The decision to close Alien Encounter and to use the space to add a Stitch ride in is, by definition a more profitable use of said location. Kudos to Disney for both getting the money to stay open longer, and to expand their profits (hey, I own a tiny bit of stock).
However, the main point argued on these boards is not whether it is a better financial decision to close certain rides, but whether or not they should. What's best in the eyes of Disney, not the company, or the stock, or the people who run it.
But in the eyes and the spirit of a man who dedicated his life to creating a place where people could escape, and find a world that represented yesterday, tommorrow, and fantasy. Where people could have fun as they immersed themselves in animation (Magic Kingdom), or have fun while they learned of the world, and the world ahead (Epcot).
I cna only speak for myself when I say that the people who make the decisions at Disney do not seem wholly dedicated to this idea. I don't flatter myself to think that Mike Eisner will read this, and his heart grow three sizes too large. But its nice to go on these boards and find others who share the same wish. To continue the dreams of a man who personifys wonder, and creates magic.
Sorry for the long post... I'm done

 

[Dr Albert Falls]

You know what--- Walt did not have ANYTHING to do personally with Alien Encounter, Horizons, World of Motion, JII... or even EPCOT CENTER (other than the name).

To be completely accurate-- Walt only dreamed up ONE attraction for WDW--- "Swamp Ride", which never got built.

For the most part, the same people who are tearing out/rennovating attractions are the same people that built them 10-20 years ago.

Are they less smart now??

Get over it!

 

[Enderikari]

So, are you saying there is no difference in the management now as there was in '71?
Don't get me wrong, I know that since their inception the theme parks have been making money. However, this was not necessarily their sole purpose as it is now. In your original post, you focused on the decisions that are being made simply in the name of profit. Profit neds to be a large consideration when running such an enormous operation as WDW, but, shouldnt be the sole purpose.

However, in total, I agree with Grumpys Gal. WDW needs change, in order to avoid becoming stagnant. But, what needs to be looked at are two things. Are the changes that are being made consistent with the philosophy of the park, the original philosophy of the company? And what are the repercussions from us, the repeat customer?

 

[General Grizz]

Albert - - I’m pretty sure I’m one of the individuals who you tried to target in “Get over it!” I must say, your post has excellent posts concerning Disney as a company.

However, as far as I am concerned, the issues you present as far as wanting attractions back, dwelling on the past, and moaning aren’t the problem. The reason why many of Walt Disney World’s guests dwell on these topics is rooted in the fear that Disney may do the same thing again.

Take “Stitch Escape!” for example. When many of Disney’s guests think of a character “invasion,” ideas like “The Enchanted Tiki Room – Under New Management” and “Goofy’s Dancing Jamboree” come to mind, attractions that have potentially ruined original experiences for them. In Tiki Room’s example, an original attraction by Walt was invaded by Iago and Zazu, turning the Polynesian culture into a show with. . . rap?

As far as “Stitch Escape!” goes, a lot of us don’t want to see original attractions being replaced – a trend that many of us are starting to find common. And, it’s not that the guests dislike characters, it’s that original characters and qualities in the park which they have grown accustomed to for perhaps thirty years may be fading. And therefore, it’s not that attractions are leaving, but that those changes form a basis for the future.

And that’s not to say it can’t be done right. “The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh” comes to mind. In this case, a more quality, as WELL as popular, attraction came at the expense of an attraction, although it is still basically available at Disneyland.

And if an attraction is indeed displaced, after perhaps over a twenty year run, like Horizons, it can’t helped be missed. But it isn’t because it was “replaced;” it is because of what is was replaced by, and that this change may be a basis for future changes.

Take Spaceship Earth for example. Many members on this board and others are afraid of another “Journey into Your Imagination” or even a “Test Track” – attractions they find to have much less to do with EPCOT’s message and quality standards. From Horizons, World of Motion, and Journey into Imagination, we have lost hundreds of full-scale sets, songs, and Audio-Animatronics figures, to be replaced with mostly empty space.

But the point isn’t that we lost them. The point is, we may lose more of them. And that’s why the idea of replacing the Spaceship Earth is so controversial in most aspects. Yet, that’s not to say Spaceship Earth can’t be changed. In a recent thread, three of us, who have completely different interests in Disney, agreed on a simple Spaceship Earth change that can make “everyone” happy. And these kinds of changes, creating new style attractions, while keeping foundation and quality standards, are possible.

Complacency is dangerous. It can’t always be that we can be fully accepting of things, and if this is indeed the case for people, that’s fine. However, it’s not the case for hundreds of thousands of Disney’s fans, the people who spend thousands of dollars in Disney merchandising and experiences. “Everything that is, is right?”

Disney still has its magic touch. But a lot of the magic has been fading – seasonal attractions perhaps? And in this case, fear that seasonal attractions may be shut down for good? Or in the previous topics of EPCOT’s trends and trends of characters?

Oh, and by the way, Albert, based on your recent comment, Walt Disney had more to do with Horizons and World of Motion than you’d think. Did these attractions not embody Walt’s entire philosophy? Walt left a legacy on his company – he didn’t just die. And it’s fair to say that both would have pleased him.

Enderikari is very fair in his comments. Was it not Walt who even listened to many of the guests’ individual requests? These attractions are ours in our hearts, and, although we don’t own them, we grow attached to them, pouring in dollar after dollar just to have magical experiences. To say that we they aren’t ours, implying that we should just move on without staying in check with Disney’s changes, shows that management should be changed. Walt Disney built the area for a reason – and it’s an extreme dishonor if this indeed the case.

Here's to the future.

 

[blm07]

While I don't whine every five minutes about missing the rides on this board, I will at least miss Horizons, Mr. Toad, and JII. So far I don't really care about any of the rides that replaced them. I will also miss the EPCOT center of the 80s. Just think of it like this - they were good friends that are now dead. And about still paying Disney - yeah right, I remember clearly never paying (anyone paying money) for the 10+ times I've gone in the last 10 years, and the only thing I've bought are food, and even there I'm very cheap. I'll buy 1 thing of fries for the whole day, and fill up my free water cup from water fountains. Lately I haven't been able to get any free tickets, so I doubt I'll be going any time soon. Oh well, I haven't been feeling the magic for 5 months anyway.

I understand that Disney is a company and needs to do things that make a few people mad. And I can also understand if people hate the company for making descisions that they don't agree with.

 

[goofyfordisney]

I agree in one way, and disagree in another.

Yes, Dr. Albert Falls, you have many good points, however, isn't that the point of this forum? DISNEY?

Share our ideas, and our thoughts about it? And talk about what we miss. Rides that bring nice thoughts to our minds?

I don't think we should restrict what the members of this forum should talk about. If someone wants to start ANOTHER thread on how much they miss Horizons, then DO IT!

Thats what everyone is here for.

 

[Fido]

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls
To all the people moaning the loss of Alien Encounter-- Get over it!

To all the people still moaning about the loss of Horizons and World of Motion-- Get over it!

To all the people still complaining about Journey Into Imagination-- Get over it!

To all the people complaining about the complainers-- Get over it!
J/K :lol:

SIMMAH DOWN NAH! :zipit:

 

[MouseMadness]

Originally posted by goofyfordisney
I agree in one way, and disagree in another.

Yes, Dr. Albert Falls, you have many good points, however, isn't that the point of this forum? DISNEY?

Share our ideas, and our thoughts about it? And talk about what we miss. Rides that bring nice thoughts to our minds?

I don't think we should restrict what the members of this forum should talk about. If someone wants to start ANOTHER thread on how much they miss Horizons, then DO IT!

Thats what everyone is here for.

YEAH! :sohappy: Thank you goofy one! I think people in fact can "whine" about missing their long gone favorites... I couldn't care less about mister toad being gone, because I never rode it, and I love Pooh bear! But I give others the right to be sad Mister Toad is gone, 'cause I'm understanding like that. :lol: But you are right, this is a Disney DISCUSSION board... where people... erm, discuss. So be it missing a ride, or committing the mortal sin of asking character questions... :lookaroun I think we need to leave room for all.

And Dr Albert Falls... you have good points, but next time could you not shout? I'm listening to my Illuminations cd!!

 

[TURKEY]

I happen to agree with the good Dr. He's just pointing out how many good things have come/are coming from things that have been closed.

 

[Shaman]

Originally posted by grizzlyhall
These attractions are ours in our hearts, and, although we don’t own them, we grow attached to them, pouring in dollar after dollar just to have magical experiences. To say that we they aren’t ours, implying that we should just move on without staying in check with Disney’s changes, shows that management should be changed. Walt Disney built the area for a reason – and it’s an extreme dishonor if this indeed the case.

Here's to the future.

I agree with you grizz. And though you make good points DrAlbertFalls, I disagree with your argument--that we should just get over it.

As a passholder for many years and frequent Disney visitor (which means that I cough up alot of money in Disney) I think I reserve the right to complain about anything at Disney. Does that mean that I should be listened to...no...it would be nice though. I was saddened by the departure of classic rides like Horizons and WoM...but hey there was no choice but to get use to the fact that those rides were not there.

AE however is a different story...it is one of the FEW original and not Disney character based attractions at MK. Above everything else it was like nothing else at ANY other theme park. The question is this...if there was a drop in attendence for this attraction a simple addition of new effects and new elements would have sufficed to get attendence back up. Sure there are complaints about the "scare" factor for kids...but if you have any shred of intelligence IF you know that you or your kids will be scared then why ride in the first place or make your kids go through that????? (its like putting you hand on the hot stove, burning yourself and then blaming the stove--rediculous). Lets face it...Disney caters to two groups now instead of one...to small children and to teenagers...instead of the "family" which was the original philosophy and intent....and yes if you are creative enough you can still have thrills in a FAMILY ride.

Change is good in WDW...but as long as its rooted in Walt Disney's original philosophy....sure Disney is a great company...but a number of bad moves and the company could collapse...nothing in business is set in stone...no company can sit and say it will last forever.

In any case no matter what your opinion is...you should be able to state it...lets allow people to grieve for their lost attractions....lets allow people to voice their frustration...and hey if a thread or group of posts gets annoying...there's always the close button.

:lookaroun :brick: :animwink:

*clicks close button*

 

[TravisMT81]

amen!!!

 

[mrtoad]

Originally posted by Dr Albert Falls
To all the people moaning the loss of Alien Encounter-- Get over it!

Doc,

As posted by others in repsonse, it is our right to gripe if we want. I have been to WDW about 20 times, I and my parents before me pump a lot of money into the Disney machine. Yes a lot of the things that I miss probably should have changed. But they meant something personal to me, so if I wish they were not replaced I will state that. Same as you giving your opinion. Neither is wrong, neither is right.

If someone starts a post saying they did not want Disney to change this or that is their opinion that they posted. Same as you posting this is your opinion. Shoud we all start posts saying for all the Doctors who create posts telling people what to do or what not to do to get over it?

I have no problem with anyone giving their opinion. I do have a problem when people start telling others what to do or start complaining about what other say.

In another post I read of your last night or the night before you talked about someone ruining your PhilarMagic experience. In that post you say you don't have a tendency to feel violent or angry. Are you sure about that Doc? You seem kind of angry in the post as well.

Why don't you just right yourself a prescription for something to calm yourself down and let other speak about what they want to speak about.

 

[mkepcotmgmak]

wow

i def. believe that disney must spend money to make money, and that they are doing! i am more excited now than ever about all the new additions to the parks... it only makes me want to come back quicker - which is disney's main concern, and reason for all the additions.

while i will miss AE - it will be nice for a change... i have seen four or five times and will welcome a new attraction. as far as bringing disney characters into the shows - well... its disney. it was all started by a mouse, not an alien trying to break out of a theater, or singing birds...sometimes i feel like they should leave the 'classics' alone, but at the same time, us die-hard disney fans probably make up only 5% or less of wdw park goers... and by die hard, i mean people willing to debate this topic on a forum on the world wide web, not just annual passholders, or those who visit disney once a year or so...

anyway - like spaceship earth - i love this attraction! i will miss it greatly when it is gone... but - let disney make something new - you never know what you will get out of it! epcot is thought of by most guests (not us die hards mind you) as a boring, nothing to do, half a day park - mission:space and soarin will help greatly, but let disney get on a role. if they want to take the ball completely down and make a new icon for the park - its new - change is good. i hate the hat at MGM - i didn't like them changing that icon - but you know what - a lot of people like it and i am probably in the minority of folks who do not, so, i just remember that it is disney and like it anyway.

i think Dr. Falls is right, but i am one of those who misses old attractions, but at the same time, i know that the parks cannot stay the same, if walt were alive, we would probably lose attractions faster than we are now, becuase walt was ALL ABOUT making new things, and trying new technology, that is how we got disneyland in the first place... what if disneyland still had all the same attractions today that it had in 1955? no one would go probably.

just remember, we love disney because it is disney - not becuase of one attraction, or even 5 attractions. do you go to the MK just to ride alien encounter and then go home? - me neither.

hey guys - have a great week - monday is almost over!:sohappy: