Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[Cesar R M]

I have a violent aversion to mass-hysteria gullibility, especially where Disney Park fans are concerned.
The last time we had it (leaving aside Frozen in the theaters), we got Stitch's Great Escape out of it, for real...NEVER AGAIN.

next on disney.. Elsa's great escape!
where they have the prison scene, and elsa as to escape.. replace all silly effects by elsa sound effect and cold effects

Uh, Pheneioiex, or however you're misspelling it?:
Don't take this the wrong way, mind, but...USENET IS DEAD, SHUT THE HELL UP!!!

(People, please. I defy--I slap you in the face with a white glove, spit on your polished riding boots and DEFY you--to quote any part of Pheonieioix's posts that sound like verified fact with a source that can be traced. Or, which at the very least, do not sound like generic cynical trolling about "what's happened to Epcot".
Not just "Oo, he said it!", which seems to have triggered the last page and a half of discussions.)

who still uses usenet anyway?
I understand the nostalgia but usenet went down long gone, and mIRC is already pretty much phased out as well.

 

[Cesar R M]

Yeah, c'mon, Feenie, let's have some MORE ride-specific details to a plan no one has seen, and which we're taking 100% on your attention-struck, importance-bragging and nebulously vague multi-posting word for, before any details have even come forward from the company, assuming it ever existed in the first place...It'll be more real that way!

(Hey, if he's going to stick his foot that far into it, let's make sure he doesn't get lazy...)

you're going all personal on this, calm down bro, breath!

So, @pheneix seems to be saying that the entire Norway pavilion would be changed to "Arendelle". Is that right? That doesn't strike me as likely especially if it is given an accelerated timetable and being value engineered. Seems more likely they'll just shoehorn Frozen into the existing ride/pavilion, justify it as being "inspired" by Norway and call it a day.

As an aside, I think a Matterhorn type ride for Frozen (in the right location) would actually be a good idea -- use a sleigh instead of bobsleds for the vehicle, make the mountain look like the north mountain of the movie (with Elsa's castle on it) and replace the abominable snowmen with Elsa's snowman (and the requisite cameo by Olaf and perhaps others). I'm not saying they should replace the existing Matterhorn ride with a Frozen overlay -- doesn't make sense given the look of the mountain -- but the general principle of that as a ride doesn't seem that bad if it were built in the right location where it fits the theme.

If thats true, that is one huge hit to the educational and relevance of the theme-ing on each nation.
seems the crazies(the ones who have to run on ropedrop like madmen and strollers to get to frozen's M&G ) won disney..

 

[doctornick]

Anyway, if this rumor comes to pass, I'd be crushed....

1. I love Maelstrom and would hate to see it go. It really should be a model of other rides for the WS to show off the culture of the host country, rather than be tossed aside. Ride still draws pretty decent crowds too.
2. I'm not even a hardline purist on WS/Epcot being free of toons, but this is a terrible execution. Frozen has nothing to do with Norway and it is a real stretch to put them together. If the pavilion is just becoming some fictional "Arendelle" then it's stupid because WS is actually real places.
2a. I'm actually ok with bringing Ratatouille to France. At least that is set in the real world of France and has some (tenuous) relationship with a major aspect of French culture (fine cuisine). Frozen is just an abomination.
3. I wouldn't hate the idea as much -- though it would still suck -- if it was at least a new ride/pavilion coming to Epcot in addition to Maelstrom. It's not like Epcot or the WS in particular is so overflowing with rides that one needs to be replaced. There's tons of room. Add, don't replace. I'm not saying I like the idea of some princess pavilion in Epcot, but at least it's the lesser of two evils compared to putting Frozen in Norway.
4. Does TDO/Burbank not realize that DHS is dying for new rides and would be a better locale for Frozen? Oh right, they have to replace an existing ride to save money; much better idea than building something new and additional.

That said, I'm going to wait until we have confirmation and more specific details before truly freaking out. No offense to our insider here, but even if the information is true at its core, you are still dealing with it being filtered through his personal biases.

 

[Matt_Black]

Ah, wdwmagic, where unverified rumors are met with calm, measured, even-tempered responses.

 

[EricJ]

That said, I'm going to wait until we have confirmation and more specific details before truly freaking out. No offense to our insider here, but even if the information is true at its core, you are still dealing with it being filtered through his personal biases.

And on the subject of pursuing topics, discussions, ride details, story scenarios,construction/soft-opening schedules, park geography, ramifications, long-term strategies, re-theming, re-shaping of guests' interests, etc., on one poster's said personal biases and/or truly sad need for attention, it helps to keep the words of one other recent Disney character in mind:

 

[wdwfan4ver]

That said, I'm going to wait until we have confirmation and more specific details before truly freaking out. No offense to our insider here, but even if the information is true at its core, you are still dealing with it being filtered through his personal biases.

WDW1971 did post today that mentioned that soon enough the he'll be talking about Frozen in EPCOT being confirmed once he is back from his spirited holiday.

Link:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...be-leaving-in-july.884390/page-8#post-6105079

 

[NoChesterHester]

Rat ride for France definitely a "thing" that's been researched and considered. Not urgently on the front burner relative to the Frozen overhaul for Maelstrom and new movie and theater for Soarin tho. Those projects are locks.

Wouldn't surprise me if they gunned for a late 2015 opening with the Frozen ride too, which is miraculously fast turn around for WDI. Fortunately this is a rather simple project for those guys to handle; even the ride flume is supposed to remain in its current profile for the new ride.

So we finally get a project with a normal build time, and it is something that the fan boards aren't going to embrace.

One more theater for Soarin' or will it be a mirror of the current building? That will help for sure, but I want new stuff to take the pressure off Soarin' more than I want shorter wait times.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So we finally get a project with a normal build time, and it is something that the fan boards aren't going to embrace.

There are plenty who will say it is doing what Disney has always done since Disneyland was built and those who know that is not true will just say to suck it up because this is the newer, better, more relevant Disney of today.

 

[doctornick]

And on the subject of pursuing topics, discussions, ride details, story scenarios,construction/soft-opening schedules, park geography, ramifications, long-term strategies, re-theming, re-shaping of guests' interests, etc., on one poster's said personal biases and/or truly sad need for attention, it helps to keep the words of one other recent Disney character in mind:

I mentioned it once in one of the numerous 7DMT threads that it's important to consider the source and the biases they have when getting information. Saying "Maelstrom is getting a Frozen overlay" is a fact (if true). Saying "Maelstrom is getting a Frozen overlay and it will suck and destroy Epcot" is an opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but one doesn't have to agree with that opinion or need to color one's own views.

I brought it up in a 7DMT when there was discussions about the AAs and people were saying they weren't advanced and weren't very good, etc. And that's fine. But I, a poor schlep guy who just likes to do to Disney, look at the videos of the AAs there and am blown away -- I think they look great. Now, that doesn't mean that people who dismissive of that ride are wrong, it just means they have a different prospective than I do.

My point being, at this stage, I'm far more interested in learning facts about this planned Frozen addition to Epcot than I am to learn about people's opinion about what it will be like. Tell me stuff like the ride setup, or AAs/effects, or the plot or how the Norway pavilion will be set up. I care more about the details than whether it is going to be "good" or "bad".

 

[doctornick]

Rat ride for France definitely a "thing" that's been researched and considered. Not urgently on the front burner relative to the Frozen overhaul for Maelstrom and new movie and theater for Soarin tho. Those projects are locks.

I hope that Ratatouille does come to France. If TDO/Burbank is determined to destroy the theme and cohesiveness in Epcot, they might as well go all out and add a bunch of stuff that can be enjoyed. What's more annoying is bringing toons to Epcot and not even doing it well.

It would be kinda cool to have the LPS tech finally come to a US Disney park, though we'd probably get some lamer tracked dark ride much like the US Pooh rides versus Honey Hunt.

 

[EricJ]

I mentioned it once in one of the numerous 7DMT threads that it's important to consider the source and the biases they have when getting information. Saying "Maelstrom is getting a Frozen overlay" is a fact (if true).
My point being, at this stage, I'm far more interested in learning facts about this planned Frozen addition to Epcot than I am to learn about people's opinion about what it will be like. Tell me stuff like the ride setup, or AAs/effects, or the plot or how the Norway pavilion will be set up. I care more about the details than whether it is going to be "good" or "bad".

And as even regarding the "facts" to begin with, the phrase "Put up or shut up" might also richly come into play as well.

 

[spacemt354]

Before I commit probable heresy on this thread, let me be clear that
1) I have the utmost respect for the people of the Scandinavian culture. Every time we ride Maelstrom, we always stay for the movie, because our family really enjoys the culture.
2) Frozen has little to nothing to do with World Showcase.
3) Tarnishing World Showcase's philosophy and overall message would be a travesty.

That being said....let me say this.

I'm not mad over this decision. *Hears angry mob outside window* In fact, if done right, I think it could be an interesting move *dodges flaming pitchfork*

With all due respect to our insider, we know that many Disney projects have been green lit, only to fall by the wayside. I'm not going to jump to conclusions and say it is definite yet. If Frozen does arrive though, what is arriving?

A replacement for Maelstrom? A meet-and-greet? Dining changes? Or a total revamp of the entire land, taking down buildings and inserting Arendelle castle? If it has been value engineered, I can't imagine we are getting Arendelle. That doesn't make any sense. If we get Arendelle, it wasn't value engineered, because the first place where you can save money is utilizing the same infrastructure.

If the pavilion can maintain the same aesthetic appearance from across World Showcase lagoon, and they insert a frozen attraction into the pavilion, I'm not going to be lining up with my pitchforks. If we were going to do that, we should have done that a long time ago. Kim Possible scavenger hunt throughout world showcase, character meet-and-greets, Donald Duck in Mexico, Remy in Chefs de France. The insertion of characters into World Showcase is nothing new. If we want to claim that the insertion Disney characters such as Frozen into a Scandinavian pavilion will take away the purified persona of World Showcase, we all missed the memo on that a while ago.

Now, I will say, if the pavilion is completely gutted, and Arendelle is put in, I will be right in line with you all in protest. However, if one of the most popular movies in years is added to a pavilion with a similar ancestry to give it extra added life (not that it didn't have any to begin with), yet still remain faithful to the Scandinavian culture in some way, I don't see *too* much harm in it.


Frozen is too popular not to be added in some form bigger than a meet and greet. I'm sorry. It's not the best way to be added, I know. But I'm not going to overreact until information is verified.

 

[SoupBone]

heres a thought, replace the everest yeti with OLAF and if/when it's arm breaks down can just replace with another stick

Disco Yeti can not be killed. He is an immovable force upon which the goofy slapstick Olaf would break his stick figure appendages. Disco Yeti will outlive all of us and the cockroaches should an apocalyptic event take us all out. He will be a beacon of mankind's achievements for the aliens that inhabit our planet to revel in the glory of; for he is Disco Yeti.

 

[pheneix]

And on the subject of pursuing topics, discussions, ride details, story scenarios,construction/soft-opening schedules, park geography, ramifications, long-term strategies, re-theming, re-shaping of guests' interests, etc., on one poster's said personal biases and/or truly sad need for attention, it helps to keep the words of one other recent Disney character in mind:

You're really passionate about this. I respect that, I really do.

On the other hand, I'm seriously laughing hard at claims that "this information needs to be verified by another insider" before it is to be fully absorbed my this community, because "biases."

I know much is made about being true to yourself and saying how you really feel in our modern day society, but that philosophy really only seems to apply to those who tell people what they want to hear, as opposed to what they ought to know.

 

[pheneix]

So, @pheneix seems to be saying that the entire Norway pavilion would be changed to "Arendelle". Is that right? That doesn't strike me as likely especially if it is given an accelerated timetable and being value engineered. Seems more likely they'll just shoehorn Frozen into the existing ride/pavilion, justify it as being "inspired" by Norway and call it a day.

I think the reality of how not possible that is and the need for some additional work outside the building to facilitate new theme is why some things were cut from the ride. "Or so the unverified rumors say..."

 

[RSoxNo1]

For what it's worth, Jim Hill had this as a possibility back on December 23rd on the Unofficial Guide's Disney Dish.

 

[HenryMystic]

pheneix

Hey pal :wave:

 

[aladdin2007]

Before I commit probable heresy on this thread, let me be clear that
1) I have the utmost respect for the people of the Scandinavian culture. Every time we ride Maelstrom, we always stay for the movie, because our family really enjoys the culture.
2) Frozen has little to nothing to do with World Showcase.
3) Tarnishing World Showcase's philosophy and overall message would be a travesty.

That being said....let me say this.

I'm not mad over this decision. *Hears angry mob outside window* In fact, if done right, I think it could be an interesting move *dodges flaming pitchfork*

With all due respect to our insider, we know that many Disney projects have been green lit, only to fall by the wayside. I'm not going to jump to conclusions and say it is definite yet. If Frozen does arrive though, what is arriving?

A replacement for Maelstrom? A meet-and-greet? Dining changes? Or a total revamp of the entire land, taking down buildings and inserting Arendelle castle? If it has been value engineered, I can't imagine we are getting Arendelle. That doesn't make any sense. If we get Arendelle, it wasn't value engineered, because the first place where you can save money is utilizing the same infrastructure.

If the pavilion can maintain the same aesthetic appearance from across World Showcase lagoon, and they insert a frozen attraction into the pavilion, I'm not going to be lining up with my pitchforks. If we were going to do that, we should have done that a long time ago. Kim Possible scavenger hunt throughout world showcase, character meet-and-greets, Donald Duck in Mexico, Remy in Chefs de France. The insertion of characters into World Showcase is nothing new. If we want to claim that the insertion Disney characters such as Frozen into a Scandinavian pavilion will take away the purified persona of World Showcase, we all missed the memo on that a while ago.

Now, I will say, if the pavilion is completely gutted, and Arendelle is put in, I will be right in line with you all in protest. However, if one of the most popular movies in years is added to a pavilion with a similar ancestry to give it extra added life (not that it didn't have any to begin with), yet still remain faithful to the Scandinavian culture in some way, I don't see *too* much harm in it.


Frozen is too popular not to be added in some form bigger than a meet and greet. I'm sorry. It's not the best way to be added, I know. But I'm not going to overreact until information is verified.

I enjoyed your post and the bolded especially I agree with. It really depends which way they go with this, Frozen overlay into Maelstrom (fine, we knew they may be taking that cheap shot route and as extra confirmation, Spirit did remark frozen is coming to Epcot) but if ditching Norway for Arendelle all together? then that is the absolute end. If they outright change the style and look of the pavilion as we know it and as it appears from across the lagoon,,oh yeah, I will protest.

What are they going to do not hire Norwegians anymore but just whoever? Have Arendelle sitting right next to China? Its outright stupid and would be a new low for Disney, not to mention I know several in the Norwegian American community who are going to be upset. The Norwegian Embassy still receives letters about the movie not being updated...(not that they have anythign to do with it anymore but for whatever reason people go to them)..well imagine if Disney gutts Norway (a pavilion christened originally by the way by the current King of Norway who was there for the opening) for Arendelle and wipes it off the World Showcase map. Its almost disrespectful in a way even though its themepark real estate. Plopping fantasyland into boozy world showcase is what they are doing if all this is true, really bad move.

 

[EricJ]

On the other hand, I'm seriously laughing hard at claims that "this information needs to be verified by another insider" before it is to be fully absorbed my this community, because "biases."

I know much is made about being true to yourself and saying how you really feel in our modern day society, but that philosophy really only seems to apply to those who tell people what they want to hear, as opposed to what they ought to know.

In other words, you think we're being mean because some of us don't believe you like you said we should.

 

[TP2000]

You guys should see the Frozen mess they pitched for Matterhorn in Anaheim. That's an even bigger laugh.

They wouldn't dare! The locals would storm TDA with pitchforks and torches.