Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[MerlinTheGoat]

Apologists have already been on this subject for a while, there are always going to be nuts who defend garbage like this. There have even been defenders of the value engineering of the Mine Train. They'll no doubt be a lot more of them here shortly if this project is announced anytime soon (if it's being fast tracked for 2015 then i'd expect an announcement before too long).

I enjoyed Frozen to some extent (not as much as the absurd adoration it gets but it was pretty good IMO). But i'm absolutely against this nonsense and am a big Maelstrom fan (despite its brevity). I must ask though @pheneix Is there any chance that this too will be canned alongside the DHS overhaul? I hope against hope it will. It's quite obvious with projects like this among others lately that Disney has degenerated into a creatively bankrupt corporation willing to stoop to the most egregious of money grubbing scams to drive their stocks up for short term investors. I'm often upset that Disney isn't creating any decent new experiences. But lately with projects like this, i'm starting to shift instead to just wanting the parks to stagnate until some new decent leadership can be allowed in. That is an awful mindset to be in to wish for stagnation, but these kinds of projects terrify me infinitely more than an old gem like Maelstrom being left alone without any plussing for years to come (there's nothing even really glaringly wrong with its current form besides its brevity and needing some moderate tech plussing, and if they recycle the same track for Frozen then it won't even fix that flaw). It's preferable to me than allowing these lunatics running the company to systematically mutilate what scarce little good remains of a once wonderful and magical place (yes magic that didn't require any kiddie toons or money grubbing boozer scams). If the only change to the parks means having to endure garbage like this, I'd rather just run the clock out until the next leadership change. Even if it is just sheer desperate hope that SOMEONE better is appointed that could start a massive restructuring and cleanup of the company and the parks (though if Rasulo ends up taking over then we and the company as a whole are truly and completely ****ed).

I say this honestly- I've never been to Universal and don't have any idea whether i'll enjoy it, but I intend to rectify my absence as soon as possible (sounds like it's one hell of a time to be a fan of them). But one thing I will definitely say is that whether I do like it or not, I hope WDW starts to suffer financially from their neighbors in a huge way. I want Universal to keep pushing for quality and stealing Disney's old quality-driven fanbase. Disney executives truly do deserve it for the mess they've caused and the wonderful legacy they've kicked through the mud and potentially ruined forevermore. I was a lifelong WDW fan having grown up with it in its heyday. It's ironic that it was Universal who got the rights to Harry Potter and yet Disney World is the one that is systematically having its soul ripped into pieces (hint hint Potter reference for fans).

According to some users in another topic, Tom Fitzgerald was supposed to have been appointed to head a renovation of EPCOT, allegedly because he and many within the company wanted to improve the park and restore some of its former glory. Projects like this (the double whammy of an inappropriate movie overlay along with it being a value engineered one to boot) point towards the exact opposite occurring. I'm a bit curious as to what @tirian and @articos have to say about this... If this project is any indication of what to expect out of EPCOT's future, WDW1974 and Lee were absolutely spot on in not trusting anything Fitzgerald had a hand in (though really there was already substantial evidence not to trust Fitzgerald well before we were told).

I just don't understand why they have to replace Norway. Why can't they just make this in MK or HS? Is it really THAT much cheaper to replace Norway??? W T F!!!!

What lazyboy said along with there being no doubt that bean counters looked at this and came to the conclusion that repurposing a pre-existing show building and ride base is cheaper than building an attraction from scratch in MK or HS. From what pheneix said it sounds like they've value engineered the absolute crap out of the proposed project and plan to reuse the same track layout and shoehorn the changes in as inexpensively and quickly as possible. They'd have to do this if they actually want to have this done next year (Disney is too slow to build even the simplest new ride from scratch in such a short time frame, even bathrooms or a dedicated princess meet and greet).

 

[lazyboy97o]

I believe the story of Aladdin predates Islam. So it's a story from a land that later became Muslim, and Morocco is different land that also became Muslim. Aladdin in Morocco fits like Hercules would in Germany. Hercules is from Greece. Greece was not then, but is now, a Christian country. Germany is also now a Christian country. So Hercules fits in Germany?

Being part of a culture is not synonymous with being originated from a culture. Greek Mythology fell aside with the rise of Christianity. The notion of a single cultural Christendom died out a few millennia ago. The tales in the One Thousand and One Nights, the Aladdin tale is not originally a part of the collection, were continued and compiled in their known form under Islam with their retelling and compilation influenced by Islam. There is also a lot of Persian influence, but the stories are written down in Arabic, the language of Islam. It's more like saying the Italy Pavilion would be wrong to feature Roman mythology because much of it is taken from Greek mythology.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

More like replacing the ride entirely in concept and dealing with the removal of all references to Norway and a total re theme of pavilion as a consequence.

Epcot is dead guys and the corpse is about to stink REAL bad. If Universal is not your thing, so be it, I won't urge you to go there. But if you are really passionate about Walt Disney World as it was in the past and are frustrated at they way things are now, I suggest that you find new passions and new hobbies to occupy your time. There is nothing but frustration and heartbreak to be found at WDW from now on. The same is largely true for DLR in Anaheim as well but I give them a good 3-4 more "good" years of being fun to visit before it becomes a downright hostile environ like Walt Disney World 2014.

Sad. All good things come to an end, and Disney's run as the king of theme parks is one of them. Everywhere.

That's quite a powerful post you got there, Pheneix.

I can't wait to hear all about the "story" they concoct to justify the ride layout.

Oh, that one is easy. Arrendale, arrendale.. ticked off chick.. snow, let it go, Marshmallow gets all angry, blows your boat backwards, frozen Arrendale, more frozen stuff, Sven and the icicles, sister reunion, happy ending, ride over. Exit through gift shop. Hopefully, a well stocked one.

The end. (Of Epcot as it was intended when built)

 

[dupac]

What the Norway pavilion really needs is some Travis Fimmel as Ragnar Lothbrok. Heh.

Seriously though, ripping out the Norwegian history in favor of a movie set in a mythical country is upsetting. I don't care if it's done with animatronics. It still won't make sense thematically and will stick out like a sore thumb. I'm afraid it will set a precedent unfortunately. But maybe rides like Nemo & Friends have already done that?

 

[prfctlyximprct]

I just don't see where Norway has the capacity to even house a queue if maelstrom gets a frozen overlay. I mean people are waiting three hours(insanity!) for Elsa and Anna.. Can you imagine the wait times for an attraction??

If they are doing this, they better have ratatouille in the works at the same time to help with flow issues! World showcase is going to be crazy.

I'm surprised disney really isn't cashing in on frozens popularity. They could have frozen themed drinks and good offerings.. Etc.

 

[morningstar]

Being part of a culture is not synonymous with being originated from a culture. Greek Mythology fell aside with the rise of Christianity. The notion of a single cultural Christendom died out a few millennia ago. The tales in the One Thousand and One Nights, the Aladdin tale is not originally a part of the collection, were continued and compiled in their known form under Islam with their retelling and compilation influenced by Islam. There is also a lot of Persian influence, but the stories are written down in Arabic, the language of Islam. It's more like saying the Italy Pavilion would be wrong to feature Roman mythology because much of it is taken from Greek mythology.

No, it would be like saying Roman mythology doesn't fit in the France pavilion. France was part of the Roman empire, just like Morocco was part of the Muslim conquest, but that doesn't mean France is Rome nor is Morocco Persia. Italy was at least where Roman mythology originated, even if the culture is no longer active. Morocco is neither where, nor the same culture as, Aladdin.

 

[alissafalco]

Apologists have already been on this subject for a while, there are always going to be nuts who defend garbage like this. There have even been defenders of the value engineering of the Mine Train. They'll no doubt be a lot more of them here shortly if this project is announced anytime soon (if it's being fast tracked for 2015 then i'd expect an announcement before too long).

I enjoyed Frozen to some extent (not as much as the absurd adoration it gets but it was pretty good IMO). But i'm absolutely against this nonsense and am a big Maelstrom fan (despite its brevity). I must ask though @pheneix


What lazyboy said along with there being no doubt that bean counters looked at this and came to the conclusion that repurposing a pre-existing show building and ride base is cheaper than building an attraction from scratch in MK or HS. From what pheneix said it sounds like they've value engineered the absolute crap out of the proposed project and plan to reuse the same track layout and shoehorn the changes in as inexpensively and quickly as possible. They'd have to do this if they actually want to have this done next year (Disney is too slow to build even the simplest new ride from scratch in such a short time frame, even bathrooms or a dedicated princess meet and greet).

Thats just pathetic on their part. Frozen has given them the opportunity to make something truly amazing and put the ball back in their park. I guess they would rather hit a foul instead. Smh...

 

[dadddio]

You watch this isn't the end of it, they will continue to shoehorn more and more cartoon characters in EPCOT to drive attendance and capacity away from MK. Kiddie-fy EPCOT. Just unbelievable. This truly is blasphemes.This isn't what EPCOT was designed to be. Please don't anyone of the usaual suspects come on here and try to spin this. There isn't anyway to spin it. Maelstrom was ( is) extremely popular and now they want to ruin the essence. Just unbelievable!

You watch.....you watch what EPCOT will look like in ten years. It will be MK 2.0....I am telling you. They wont build another gate....they will just transform this one. Go ahead TDO....keep pi$$ing off your base....BRILLIANT!

There's a lot to discuss in your post, but the bolded bit struck me the most. In all the times that I've rode Maelstrom over the years, I cannot remember ever waiting in line for more than a couple minutes. Do people even know that the ride exists?

 

[Alektronic]

I have some friends that actually work at Norway and there is plenty of rumors floating around about what type of ride/show will replace Maelstrom, from an extended ride with plenty of new AA figures to a value engineered ride with plenty of video screens and the flume ride would get the Imagination type of refurb (removing all the high maintenance items). There are still a lot different configurations being bounced around right now. It all come down to one thing: Money.

So one thing is for sure though, the Maelstrom ride in its current configuration will be changing, to what I'm not sure yet, but it is on the fast track and Maelstrom will be going down for a 18-24 month refurb starting as soon as Sept or Oct.

 

[DocMcHulk]

Not reading any of this so sorry if repeating. Just throwing in that this Frozen replacement for Maelstrom is a real project that's really happening and it just got hit with a joyous round of value engineering before getting a green light.

You guys should see the Frozen mess they pitched for Matterhorn in Anaheim. That's an even bigger laugh.

"value engineering" makes me twitch

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, it would be like saying Roman mythology doesn't fit in the France pavilion. France was part of the Roman empire, just like Morocco was part of the Muslim conquest, but that doesn't mean France is Rome nor is Morocco Persia. Italy was at least where Roman mythology originated, even if the culture is no longer active. Morocco is neither where, nor the same culture as, Aladdin.

That example falls apart because there is not a strong, contemporary aspect of the culture that still ties France to Rome and is further weakened because the Roman Empire allowed local cultures to remain so long as they did not interfere with Roman rule. Islam as a culture transcends political boundaries and Islam, unlike the Roman Empire in France, is still an dominate and active influence in Morocco.

 

[bhg469]

Apologists have already been on this subject for a while, there are always going to be nuts who defend garbage like this. There have even been defenders of the value engineering of the Mine Train. They'll no doubt be a lot more of them here shortly if this project is announced anytime soon (if it's being fast tracked for 2015 then i'd expect an announcement before too long).

I enjoyed Frozen to some extent (not as much as the absurd adoration it gets but it was pretty good IMO). But i'm absolutely against this nonsense and am a big Maelstrom fan (despite its brevity). I must ask though @pheneix Is there any chance that this too will be canned alongside the DHS overhaul? I hope against hope it will. It's quite obvious with projects like this among others lately that Disney has degenerated into a creatively bankrupt corporation willing to stoop to the most egregious of money grubbing scams to drive their stocks up for short term investors. I'm often upset that Disney isn't creating any decent new experiences. But lately with projects like this, i'm starting to shift instead to just wanting the parks to stagnate until some new decent leadership can be allowed in. That is an awful mindset to be in to wish for stagnation, but these kinds of projects terrify me infinitely more than an old gem like Maelstrom being left alone without any plussing for years to come (there's nothing even really glaringly wrong with its current form besides its brevity and needing some moderate tech plussing, and if they recycle the same track for Frozen then it won't even fix that flaw). It's preferable to me than allowing these lunatics running the company to systematically mutilate what scarce little good remains of a once wonderful and magical place (yes magic that didn't require any kiddie toons or money grubbing boozer scams). If the only change to the parks means having to endure garbage like this, I'd rather just run the clock out until the next leadership change. Even if it is just sheer desperate hope that SOMEONE better is appointed that could start a massive restructuring and cleanup of the company and the parks (though if Rasulo ends up taking over then we and the company as a whole are truly and completely ****ed).

I say this honestly- I've never been to Universal and don't have any idea whether i'll enjoy it, but I intend to rectify my absence as soon as possible (sounds like it's one hell of a time to be a fan of them). But one thing I will definitely say is that whether I do like it or not, I hope WDW starts to suffer financially from their neighbors in a huge way. I want Universal to keep pushing for quality and stealing Disney's old quality-driven fanbase. Disney executives truly do deserve it for the mess they've caused and the wonderful legacy they've kicked through the mud and potentially ruined forevermore. I was a lifelong WDW fan having grown up with it in its heyday. It's ironic that it was Universal who got the rights to Harry Potter and yet Disney World is the one that is systematically having its soul ripped into pieces (hint hint Potter reference for fans).

According to some users in another topic, Tom Fitzgerald was supposed to have been appointed to head a renovation of EPCOT, allegedly because he and many within the company wanted to improve the park and restore some of its former glory. Projects like this (the double whammy of an inappropriate movie overlay along with it being a value engineered one to boot) point towards the exact opposite occurring. I'm a bit curious as to what @tirian and @articos have to say about this... If this project is any indication of what to expect out of EPCOT's future, WDW1974 and Lee were absolutely spot on in not trusting anything Fitzgerald had a hand in (though really there was already substantial evidence not to trust Fitzgerald well before we were told).


What lazyboy said along with there being no doubt that bean counters looked at this and came to the conclusion that repurposing a pre-existing show building and ride base is cheaper than building an attraction from scratch in MK or HS. From what pheneix said it sounds like they've value engineered the absolute crap out of the proposed project and plan to reuse the same track layout and shoehorn the changes in as inexpensively and quickly as possible. They'd have to do this if they actually want to have this done next year (Disney is too slow to build even the simplest new ride from scratch in such a short time frame, even bathrooms or a dedicated princess meet and greet).

I haven't been to universal since about 1993 ish. Back then it was very dofferent and I appreciated it while I was probably 13 yeas old.
Fast forward to March of this year. I was blown away and I do not see how anyone could bash what they're doing. Springfield isn't mentioned too often but it is really neat if you're into the simpsons. Even if you arent, Moe's tavern is impressive.

The potter stuff is beyond well themed but it's really congested and busy, but that's just an indication of its success.

Twitter is full of people that refuse to go there and I have to say that it is beyond silly to skip it.

 

[doctornick]

There's a lot to discuss in your post, but the bolded bit struck me the most. In all the times that I've rode Maelstrom over the years, I cannot remember ever waiting in line for more than a couple minutes. Do people even know that the ride exists?

I've often seen the ride with wait times of 30-45 minutes. Certainly part of that is due to Fastpass, but if you were only waiting a few minutes, I would think that's due to timing (right after WS opens or late at night) or at a very light time in the park.

Now, the Mexico ride, that never has much of a wait.

 

[NormC]

I think the biggest objection is that WS is not Fantasyland. Make-believe characters have their place in Magic Kingdom, but WS is about real places and real culture. Children can handle that, and child-like adults can too!

But you can use make believe characters to teach children about real culture. We have been doing it for years. It can be done right if Disney choses to do so.

 

[dadddio]

I'm seriously laughing hard at claims that "this information needs to be verified by another insider" before it is to be fully absorbed my this community, because "biases."

I guess that first the self-proclaimed 'insiders' would have to actually be 'insiders'.

 

[xdan0920]

I guess that first the self-proclaimed 'insiders' would have to actually be 'insiders'.

Elaborate please.

 

[dadddio]

..well imagine if Disney gutts Norway ... for Arendelle and wipes it off the World Showcase map. Its almost disrespectful in a way even though its themepark real estate. Plopping fantasyland into boozy world showcase is what they are doing if all this is true, really bad move.

Settle down. They are never going to actually turn the Norway pavilion into an Arendelle pavilion. They'll theme the ride to Frozen, sell some Frozen swag, and perhaps let your kid take a pic with the characters.

Don't believe everything that is posted to the internet.

 

[xdan0920]

Settle down. They are never going to actually turn the Norway pavilion into an Arendelle pavilion. They'll theme the ride to Frozen, sell some Frozen swag, and perhaps let your kid take a pic with the characters.

Don't believe everything that is posted to the internet.

Source?

 

[dadddio]

Elaborate please.

What elaboration is necessary? It's easy for people to puff themselves up, repeat what was written elsewhere and color it with 'This isn't what Walt wanted' drama. That doesn't make them insiders.

 

[dadddio]

Source?

Your asking for a source to disprove totally outlandish internet rumor? Really?