Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[jdmdisney99]

I checked out of this thread a while ago, so is this still a thing? I sure hope not...

 

[RSoxNo1]

yet in too small of a space, where the crowd control will be a nightmare.

Yep. If you look at the screenshot from @marni1971's video you can see that there is a bit of room to expand the queue.

I could see load/unload being combined, or perhaps a re-working of the load/unload area to allow for a larger queue. The current ride is a little over 4 minutes. It's probably safe to assume that the old post show video as well as the unload/holding area could see major re-working from a track standpoint and queue standpoint. The yellow section is the track, the angle that's formed at the bottom of the image above is the end of the load area and beginning of the lift hill. Following the track, the next two angles are the backwards/forward track switches. While the last angle is going into the load area. The larger section above this angle is the post show holding area, and the area to the left of that is the post show.

The Maelstrom queue can probably hold 45 minutes. Should the look to expand the queue into the load area space and post show movie space they could create ramps/stairs at unload to go over the queue, or have unload route around the perimiter of the existing unload area and movie while the queue winds on the inside.

Another option would be to re-work the track. I don't know how well people know the layout of that building, but it does not appear that the first floor track ever goes beneath the 2nd floor track. I'm not sure if that's possible to extend the attraction while utilizing existing space.

Martin goes through the full pavilion layout at the 4:30 mark below:

 

[GoofGoof]

Well aren't you the charmer on here, sorry my use of the phrase dude rubbed your light sensibilities the wrong way. I could go back and quote many of the response about it?Anyways stranger here you go.

"I went inside the Stave church yesterday. While I admit that for a shoehorned film tie-in it was tastefully done, it was still a little strange seeing a Disney film so prominently featured in what used to be devoted exclusively to international culture. I suppose it'd be like seeing a "making of Beauty and the Beast" movie instead of Impressions de France, not to say it couldn't be done tastefully or accurately, just that the new focus would take some getting used to.
For what I'm sure the Imagineers were instructed to do, they did a fine job with it. It's more that someone found this necessary that I find disappointing."

"Nice to see the blend in the new exhibit. Well done."


"What had me concerned originally was the report that the Stave Church was going to be a meet & Greet for the Frozen characters... Using it as an exhibition for the design of a film that happens in the same region is a whole different thing. The exhibit looks well done....and dare I say, relevant."

"was banging my chest with woe and sobbing over the loss of the Viking exhibit and how horrible a princess commercial for the new blah movie would be.......then WHAM! Did not see it coming.
The new exhibit looks interesting and I hope it will be open when we go next...and NOW I want to see the movie, I wasn't sure about it before...

The new display might not be about Vikings,
but might actually display more info about Norway then before, so OK...."

That's just on page. Now I am not advocating that frozen should go in norway, but I am saying that the response to the exhibit was indeed a warm one overall granted there were some folks who didn't like it. Dude . Also here is the definition of Majority since it seems to escape you
ma·jor·i·ty
məˈjôrətē,-ˈjär-/
noun

1. 1.
   the greater number.
   "in the majority of cases all will go smoothly"
   
   larger part/number, greater part/number, best/better part, most, more than half; More

No point going back and forth on this. Not even sure what we are talking about at this point. The original post that started this discussion was this:

Hey, remember when it was announced they'd changed the exhibits in Stave Church and everyone was complaining about how it was going to be ruined and princess-ified and then when it finally opened everyone was all, "Oh. Oh that's actually not bad."?

You guys are quoting a few random posters on a thread who were OK with what they did temporarily to the Church for the meet and greet and assuming that means everyone who thought it was a bad idea changed their minds once they saw it in person and were OK with it. It's a pretty limited sample size.

Even if that was true, after 125 pages filled with a majority of negative responses to Frozen replacing Maelstrom in this thread I am not confident that all these people will suddenly change their minds after the attraction opens and decide its a good idea to infuse more toons in World Showcase. I'm not saying it can't or won't be well done for what it is or that it won't be popular with long waits or that I won't ride it (and probably even enjoy it). I still think it's a bad idea in theory and would prefer them to do something more substantial with Frozen in another park. That opinion won't change even if the overlay is exceptional in execution.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I may be alone on an island here, but even in the face of alienating some people here it goes... It doesn't bother me that much.

Now I hate the hat at DHS. I hate the circus tent facades in Fantasyland. I hate the placement of Aladdin's Magic Carpets. I obviously despise Dinorama... So how can I support the placement of toons in World Showcase??

I am far more of an environment purist than I am a thematic purist. I don't like toons intruding in on real world environments, but that purist dies once I step through the doors into the queue.

The escape for me is walking through Harambe and being transported to that place and time. Nothing interrupts that escape. As an example, the BAH does the exact opposite, it interrupts the perfectly constructed environment of Fantasy Hollywood with a cartoon element. Same thing with the Magic Carpets in Adventureland.

For some reason, I have an automatic suspension of disbelief when I board the rides. Things like... why is Peter Pan inside a medieval house in Disneyland? The facade has no relation to the ride that is through the doors. It is still beautiful.

Part of that is that I expect the parks to be the escape and the rides to be a fun distraction. Because of that, the rides can have cartoon elements or be based on cartoons.

My expectations for the park environs are for real world, well constructed escapes that transport me to another time, place, or fantasy.

Since modern audiences expect Disney characters in every nook and cranny I just don't mind it if it is hidden from view and as tastefully done as possible.

Well thought out, and while I agree in principle, I still don't like Frozen in Norway. I get the meet and greet, I get Akershus, but this just feels (because it is) so much more permanent. It is the easy way out. I'm not saying things should be unnecessarily complicated, but if there is a better thematic fit for an intellectual property I would prefer that.

 

[Mike S]

Ok, esoterically / what would fix Epcot for today's audience? I believe it is more complicated than it seems.

My idea to fix Epcot makes it a park that focuses on combining education and entertainment/thrills. I think my idea for Test Track would best demonstrate this. The interior would be gutted and the track changed to accommodate a new version of World of Motion that would end with the same fast thrilling outdoor section that's there now (a line from a new narrator about "speeding towards the future" could be said before you speed off). The outdoor track could maybe be enclosed within a secondary show building and instead of going around a parking lot there could be a large city of the future model you go around. There's honestly so much they could do with Epcot that would be both fitting the original theme and entertain today's guests. Disney just doesn't want to put the effort and money into it. I have other ideas for Future World as well as World Showcase but it would probably take this thread too far off topic if I put them down. I might put my ideas into a thread in the Imagineering forum sometime in the future.

 

[englanddg]

I just want to leave a footnote that you can't build the future without understanding or at least appreciating the past.

 

[Sped2424]

No point going back and forth on this. Not even sure what we are talking about at this point. The original post that started this discussion was this:

You guys are quoting a few random posters on a thread who were OK with what they did temporarily to the Church for the meet and greet and assuming that means everyone who thought it was a bad idea changed their minds once they saw it in person and were OK with it. It's a pretty limited sample size.

Even if that was true, after 125 pages filled with a majority of negative responses to Frozen replacing Maelstrom in this thread I am not confident that all these people will suddenly change their minds after the attraction opens and decide its a good idea to infuse more toons in World Showcase. I'm not saying it can't or won't be well done for what it is or that it won't be popular with long waits or that I won't ride it (and probably even enjoy it). I still think it's a bad idea in theory and would prefer them to do something more substantial with Frozen in another park. That opinion won't change even if the overlay is exceptional in execution.

You are missing my point, I am not advocating that folks are going to like this attraction, or that in belongs in norway. I was simply stating the truth that many people reacted rather warmly to the church re do and nothing more. And it's not random I simply went on the first page in that thread and took those quotes from posters. You can go back a few pages in that thread and you would see similar posts, again some negative but many were plenty surprised with the church re do. However I feel I need to clarify I am not advocating that it should happen, or that it was right, just that folks thought it was well done when it came to the church. I for one know that frozen does not belong in epcot.

 

[NoChesterHester]

My idea to fix Epcot makes it a park that focuses on combining education and entertainment/thrills. I think my idea for Test Track would best demonstrate this. The interior would be gutted and the track changed to accommodate a new version of World of Motion that would end with the same fast thrilling outdoor section that's there now (a line from a new narrator about "speeding towards the future" could be said before you speed off). The outdoor track could maybe be enclosed within a secondary show building and instead of going around a parking lot there could be a large city of the future model you go around. There's honestly so much they could do with Epcot that would be both fitting the original theme and entertain today's guests. Disney just doesn't want to put the effort and money into it. I have other ideas for Future World as well as World Showcase but it would probably take this thread too far off topic if I put them down. I might put my ideas into a thread in the Imagineering forum sometime in the future.

Send me a link if you decide to post to the imagineering forum. I'll read it.

I'll try not to get into specifics, but my concept to fix Epcot is a total overhaul. I believe the original model can't be resurrected because modern audiences respond better to aspirational story rather than edutainment.

So I would infuse some of the ideas that Walt originally had by making it a place we want to attain to be like, rather than trying to portray the future. Totally drop the Future World moniker. Make it clean and green and Represenative of where we are going then refocus the attractions to be fun portrayals of a hope. I think society could use a place like that.

 

[Mike S]

Send me a link if you decide to post to the imagineering forum. I'll read it.

I'll try not to get into specifics, but my concept to fix Epcot is a total overhaul. I believe the original model can't be resurrected because modern audiences respond better to aspirational story rather than edutainment.

So I would infuse some of the ideas that Walt originally had by making it a place we want to attain to be like, rather than trying to portray the future. Totally drop the Future World moniker. Make it clean and green and Represenative of where we are going then refocus the attractions to be fun portrayals of a hope. I think society could use a place like that.

I would like more green in the front area of the park but I'm not exactly sure about dropping Future World. How would the attractions change? Would Spaceship Earth still be Spaceship Earth? What would be done with Imagination?

 

[Matt_Black]

You are missing my point, I am not advocating that folks are going to like this attraction, or that in belongs in norway. I was simply stating the truth that many people reacted rather warmly to the church re do and nothing more. And it's not random I simply went on the first page in that thread and took those quotes from posters. You can go back a few pages in that thread and you would see similar posts, again some negative but many were plenty surprised with the church re do. However I feel I need to clarify I am not advocating that it should happen, or that it was right, just that folks thought it was well done when it came to the church. I for one know that frozen does not belong in epcot.

Exactly. Since NONE of us here can predict the future, let's actually wait until everything is finished before we start claiming how horrible the new Maelstrom is.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Exactly. Since NONE of us here can predict the future, let's actually wait until everything is finished before we start claiming how horrible the new Maelstrom is.

Except that the issue for many has absolutely nothing to do with aesthetics or execution. The idea is known and the idea is disliked.

 

[Matt_Black]

The idea is disliked by some. As evidenced in this thread, not everyone shares that view.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The idea is disliked by some. As evidenced in this thread, not everyone shares that view.

Who dislikes the idea of Frozen replacing Maelstrom not based on the idea? Be it appropriateness for World showcase, the size of the show building or dislike for the film is general, it is the idea that is bothersome. Who is being missed?

 

[wdisney9000]

Except that the issue for many has absolutely nothing to do with aesthetics or execution. The idea is known and the idea is disliked.

So many people have no clue exactly why the idea is disliked. Far too hung up on thinking it has something to do with hating Frozen or trying to save Maelstrom. The problem lies MUCH more beneath the surface than what they understand, or at least choose to understand.

 

[jensenrick]

I don't think anyone had any idea that this movie would be as huge as it is. They can't very well spend the R&D money to start developing attraction in the hopes that the movie would be a huge success.

But they can't even keep up with the merch? How long does it take to sew a little fabric snowman? Maybe have a cart with an Olaf sno cone? Seriously the lack of response is pathetic.
(which in no way means I want Frozen in epcot's Norway- it should have something cool in DHS)

 

[Matt_Black]

Who dislikes the idea of Frozen replacing Maelstrom not based on the idea? Be it appropriateness for World showcase, the size of the show building or dislike for the film is general, it is the idea that is bothersome. Who is being missed?

The people who aren't bothered by it and are curious to see how it turns out?

 

[wdisney9000]

The idea is disliked by some. As evidenced in this thread, not everyone shares that view.

Only evidence I can see is World Showcase loosing it's identity and morphing into more of a Magic Kingdom. Disney finally decides to incorporate a hit movie into the parks while it is still hot and the possibilities are endless but what do they do? Take the cheapest route possible and it's met with thunderous applause and joy from the uninformed masses. Don't know if I'm more disappointed in TWDC or the people who call themselves true Disney fans.

 

[wdisney9000]

i wasnt really enthralled with frozen like the most seem to be but a new addition to the park even in WS is welcomed by me...

An addition would mean something is added to what already exists.

 

[lazyboy97o]

i wasnt really enthralled with frozen like the most seem to be but a new addition to the park even in WS is welcomed by me...

Signs are pointing towards a replacement, not an addition.

The people who aren't bothered by it and are curious to see how it turns out?

They wouldn't exactly be counted amongst those opposed.

 

[Matt_Black]

Only evidence I can see is World Showcase loosing it's identity and morphing into more of a Magic Kingdom. Disney finally decides to incorporate a hit movie into the parks while it is still hot and the possibilities are endless but what do they do? Take the cheapest route possible and it's met with thunderous applause and joy from the uninformed masses. Don't know if I'm more disappointed in TWDC or the people who call themselves true Disney fans.

And now we descend into the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy.