Frozen ride replacing Maelstrom?

[rd805]

No it wasn't toons like it is now, and part of it was mysterious...but the folk dancing film screens made little sense without any sort of explanation about what you are seeing... I know many people that did not get the dancers on dry ice staircases... It could and should have been done way better... And while I like Maelstrom, it is incredibly short, and no one seems to watch the movie...So maybe a well done overlay would make it more accessible to learn about Norwegian culture...

And those harassing street vendors --- while accurate to being in Mexico, was really weird and annoying. "We haggle you like crazy in Mexico until you buy OUR STUFF." --- yeah, okay.

 

[Bairstow]

from spirits post:
Frozen at EPCOT. That is what has you all hot and bothered right? Well, it is coming to the ride formally known as the Maelstrom. It will be a rush job. I don't normally name sources but here I flat out will since my second source confirmed it to an audience of maybe 150 people during an onboard presentation on the Disney Wonder.

George Scribner, animator and Imagineer (for those who don't know his pedigree he directed 1988's Disney animated feature Oliver and Company, did background work on films including the Lion Ling, Dinosaur and Fantasia 2000 and was the director of Mickey's PhilharMagic and The Gran Fiesta Tour at WDW and also was responsible for TDS's Magic Lamp Theater film) confirmed that WDI is working on a redo of the ride with a Frozen overlay. BTW, his sister in law, Amy, was one of Frozen's producers.

Now, I don't think WDI wanted him leaking this to an audience of largely Disney geeks in the middle of the Pacific. But someone asked him about criticism over changing a classic EPCOT attraction by adding toons and he got a bit of that famous WDI 'we are smarter and better than our audience' 'tude and it sorta slipped out. I am not sure he had any intention of saying what he did, but he did.

Specifics? This is a Maelstrom redo, not a new Norway pavilion. I expect it to be cheaply executed. The biggest cost will be in redoing the finale scene as every other current scene can be (and looks like it will be) worked into a new attraction. The question is how far Disney will go in the queue and unload and whether the rumoured Olaf narrates a tour of today's Norway film will actually happen or not.

So if George Scribner is the one leading the project, is there any chance at all the overlay will have any animatronics in it?
Just pull all the Maelstrom stuff out and replace it with 10-12 off-the-shelf digital projectors, install them between the fake trees and rocks, and show clips from the movie.
Ride done.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

And those harassing street vendors --- while accurate to being in Mexico, was really weird and annoying. "We haggle you like crazy in Mexico until you buy OUR STUFF." --- yeah, okay.

In an act of great irony, modern WDW now haggles and harrasses you even more zealously than the Mexican street vendors it lampooned thirty years ago. Can you exit a ride or walk twenty feet anymore without some vendor waving foods or toys or timeshares in your face?

 

[ABQ]

No it wasn't toons like it is now, and part of it was mysterious...but the folk dancing film screens made little sense without any sort of explanation about what you are seeing... I know many people that did not get the dancers on dry ice staircases... It could and should have been done way better... And while I like Maelstrom, it is incredibly short, and no one seems to watch the movie...So maybe a well done overlay would make it more accessible to learn about Norwegian culture...

I agree with you completely. The film is avoided by nearly everyone, I think I've seen maybe 10 people sitting in there watching, and this with a long line waiting to ride. Personally, I find the info, even now with the rather tasteful inclusion of Frozen material, inside the Stave church to be more enlightening than the entire Maelstrom ride.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

No it wasn't toons like it is now, and part of it was mysterious...but the folk dancing film screens made little sense without any sort of explanation about what you are seeing... I know many people that did not get the dancers on dry ice staircases... It could and should have been done way better... And while I like Maelstrom, it is incredibly short, and no one seems to watch the movie...So maybe a well done overlay would make it more accessible to learn about Norwegian culture...

El Rio del Tiempo was great! A lovely mix between Small World and If You Had Wings. With some mystery thrown in to boot, from the awesome opening scenes to the ambition to tell the history of Mexico through dance.

Maelstrom suffers from Rohdeitis. Basically, all his rides suck. Too short (like Kali), relying on some gimmick (let's go backwards, just like Everest), too much 'story' (like Kilimanjaro) and too little downright fun (all his rides).

 

[morningstar]

People act like El Rio del Tiempo -- (is that right?) was some jaw dropping must ride. The Gran Fiesta overlay at least gives people a reason to try it --- I love Maelstrom, but it is old and kind of weird. If it happens, it is a good thing.

I really liked El Rio del Tiempo. It was very atmospheric how you start outside in the night scene, and enter the temple, etc. The sets were nicely done. The scenes on the screens were a bit eh but at least they fit in reasonably sensibly where they were supposed to appear to be windows. It doesn't make sense to look through a window and see a 2D cartoon running across it.

I can remember as a kid before Maelstrom opened when El Rio del Tiempo was the only thing that made me want to go to World Showcase. Pandering with characters is not necessary to interest kids.

 

[morningstar]

El Rio del Tiempo was great! A lovely mix between Small World and If You Had Wings. With some mystery thrown in to boot, from the awesome opening scenes to the ambition to tell the history of Mexico through dance.

A bit of the Jungle Cruise too. (A boat ride through a mysterious temple occurs in both.)

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Sure, there were parts (as those mentioned) where El Rio should have been better, but overall, it was much much better than what's there now. I always liked the vendors as I have traveled quite a bit through Mexico. So true to life.

 

[Texas84]

Cheap and quick? Remove the bears and put static Frozen characters there. Play 'that song' in the background for that scene. My prediction.

 

[muteki]

Cheap and quick? Remove the bears and put static Frozen characters there. Play 'that song' in the background for that scene. My prediction.

If they are adding a Frozen overlay on the cheap this is really my best case scenario. Of course I'd prefer it if they went so cheap you couldn't tell they did anything.

The trolls and narration are what I like most about the attraction, and unfortunately the chances are if they do anything remotely related to Frozen, that both of those are going to change.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Cheap and quick? Remove the bears and put static Frozen characters there. Play 'that song' in the background for that scene. My prediction.

Maybe for a bonus they replace the narrator's voice with Olaf (Josh Gad)?

 

[aladdin2007]

So if George Scribner is the one leading the project, is there any chance at all the overlay will have any animatronics in it?
Just pull all the Maelstrom stuff out and replace it with 10-12 off-the-shelf digital projectors, install them between the fake trees and rocks, and show clips from the movie.
Ride done.

I think this is what bothers me...someone had said (I think it was tirian or pheonnix), that Imagineering is still not happy with gran fiesta which is what he was in charge of..., so if thats the case why did they put the same imagineer in charge of the maelstrom project?

 

[Rescue Ranger]

Replacing Maelstrom would be a travesty. Epcot needs NEW and EXCITING ADDITIONS! Not swapping out an old classic well liked attraction for something new.

This is ridiculous. Bring Frozen to Epcot, BUT give it it's own new area. Make the Frozen attraction/ride educational about winter/snow and living in cold temperatures. Something.

 

[Bairstow]

I think this is what bothers me...someone had said (I think it was tirian or pheonnix), that Imagineering is still not happy with gran fiesta which is what he was in charge of..., so if thats the case why did they put the same imagineer in charge of the maelstrom project?

Now that I read a bit more closely, Lee's account only says that Scribner KNEW about the Frozen project. I mistakenly took that to mean he was leading it too.

 

[Matt_Black]

I think this is what bothers me...someone had said (I think it was tirian or pheonnix), that Imagineering is still not happy with gran fiesta which is what he was in charge of..., so if thats the case why did they put the same imagineer in charge of the maelstrom project?

Because maybe he learned from his mistakes and wants to do better? People do get better. Look at Ben Affleck- he went from making crappy films like Gigli and Reindeer Games to films like Argo and The Town.

 

[Scuttle]

Because maybe he learned from his mistakes and wants to do better? People do get better. Look at Ben Affleck- he went from making crappy films like Gigli and Reindeer Games to films like Argo and The Town.

Gotta step in because you mentioned The Town. That movie was awesome and totally went under the radar.

Um, but ya this all absolutely ridiculous what's going on. Disney has a chance to act now and build a new ride that is their own entity and add capacity to any of its parks with a proven movie/s, but they are going to take out the only worthy ride in WS.... UnFreakinBelievable! But they are willing to build an entire land around an IP.

 

[aladdin2007]

Because maybe he learned from his mistakes and wants to do better? People do get better. Look at Ben Affleck- he went from making crappy films like Gigli and Reindeer Games to films like Argo and The Town.

true lol he did improve greatly didn't he, I still need to see Argo.

 

[Matt_Black]

true lol he did improve greatly didn't he, I still need to see Argo.

Also, he was the BOMB in Phantoms, yo.

 

[RSoxNo1]

As I much as I hate this, is there any doubt that this will have the longest line in Epcot, if not all of Walt Disney World? I'm sure merchandise is salivating over the prospect of removing the $500 sweaters and filling up the Puffin's Roost with Anna and Elsa dresses.

Now, if they do this is it ok to ask the Norwegian girls for warm hugs?

 

[tl77]

El Rio del Tiempo was great! A lovely mix between Small World and If You Had Wings. With some mystery thrown in to boot, from the awesome opening scenes to the ambition to tell the history of Mexico through dance.

Maelstrom suffers from Rohdeitis. Basically, all his rides suck. Too short (like Kali), relying on some gimmick (let's go backwards, just like Everest), too much 'story' (like Kilimanjaro) and too little downright fun (all his rides).

I wish I could like this twice... I think "If You Had Wings" should be the template for any attraction they add to World Showcase, "a stylized sightseeing tour with a catchy sound track", that's basically what all the best Disney rides are anyway. PotC, Haunted Mansion, Small World aren't like 2 hour motion pictures that are trying to tell some elaborate story, they're like music videos, they have really strong visuals, great music, and some simple premise can give the attraction some context, and sustain itself for about 5 minutes, like "all the birds sing words, and the flowers croon... in the Tiki Tiki Tiki Tiki Tiki Room" or "we have 999 ghosts here... but there's room for one more" that's all you need to know to enjoy those attractions

"Rohdeitis" is like doing the exact opposite of what makes the classic rides great, it's basically omitting any kind of stylized entertainment value or memorable music... and trying way to hard to convince the audience this stuff they are seeing is really "real", or being way too literal with the subject matter.

My main problem with Maelstrom has always been that the whole ride is "Vikings, and trolls, and mythology", but then it drops you down a waterfall into a room with an model of an off shore oil rig? that's the grand finally to Vikings and trolls show? That final scene should be like a Norwegian Valkyrie carrying souls off to Valhalla or something... some big spectacular, visceral, conclusion to the mythological journey we've been on. Instead there's this abrupt change of tone, and it tries to make some "real", literal, intellectual point, but it really comes off seeming kind of dumb, basically the ride ends by telling you "the Norwegian people don't just believe in trolls... they drill for oil too"... gee really? Maybe this weak ending is why people feel the ride is too short. Maybe the documentary style movie at the end should cover all the literal stuff, and the ride should just stick to being fun... and if they could figure this out for all the WS pavilions, find some strong visuals and catchy music from each culture, they wouldn't need to cram cartoon characters into WS to make it seem more fun