From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[Bairstow]

This is what we have always believed too. If there is a reason they do not want you swimming then there is a problem. Whether it is amoebas, alligators, dangerous currents, etc. There are a million reasons they put up a no swimming sign. None of them good. So why would it be OK to even wade in it. With the amoebas, I would think that if you had a cut on your foot then bacteria could travel through your blood stream. It reminds me of your big brother being told not to touch you and he sticks his finger a half an inch from your face saying "I'm not touching you". Its a convenient work around a sign that saying it does not want you in there.

I disagree.
I would wager that most "No Swimming" signs in this country are posted for no particular reason at all besides catch-all liability.

Seeing such a sign, you really shouldn't assume that there is any danger whatsoever- only that the owner would rather not be exposed to the liability (or inconvenience) of people swimming there.

It's a situation where people see common lawyer-advised language and just tune it out as noise, because 99 times out of 100, there's nothing to it.

 

[PhotoDave219]

There is to much public pressure for Disney not to do anything. They will probably go above and beyond because that's the great company we all know and love. They will update and add new signs. If that does anything who knows but they will because that's what the public is complaining about. I don't blame Disney at all or the parents. Freak accident.

*too

 

[thomas998]

Mom took photos in same spot exactly 30 minutes before the tragedy: http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/06/...-her-child-was-same-spot-where-gator-attacked

Their child was ankle deep. I guess he was "swimming". SMH.

One thing I notice about the photos is that in addition to the signage they should have done a better job of clearing out the vegetation growing in the water's edge. I'm thinking the gator used it to hide.

At 9:30pm I don't think it would have mattered if the vegetation had been cleared or not, you would have likely at best seen 2 bumps floating on the water that were the gator's eyes and nothing more until it was too late to matter.

 

[thomas998]

I know everyone looks at it differently, but I look at it was someone who was a lifeguard for 7 years. I personally equate "No Swimming" with protection from drowning. I grew up in New York, so growing up the only fear I had of the water was from drowning, not from alligators. I am fully confident in my swimming abilities but also have a great respect for the water - the same way that most of the Florida residents chiming in here have for alligators. I would not disobey a "No Swimming" sign because even as a strong swimmer, I know things can happen. I also always heed "No Diving" signs, even when I know I can safely dive into a more shallow pool depth. I understand the risks, so I take precautions. However, never in a million years would I be afraid of drowning by putting my feet in the water - unless there was some crazy storms and waves.

I respect that people from Florida understand the risk of alligators, but if you don't grow up thinking there might be an alligator in the water, the danger doesn't even dawn on you.

I would think someone from New York would know that no swimming signs aren't just because of a fear of drowning... You may be too young but in older times those signs weren't placed in some areas to keep people from drowning it was because the water was a health hazard and you could get truly jacked up just by getting the toxic soup of water and other things on you.

 

[thomas998]

How is all this bickering and arguing over signage, parenting habits, Disney-negligence, etc going to bring this little boy back?

I won't... but then how much bickering and arguing over the fastpass system is going to change it, or bickering and arguing over anything on the forum going to actually result in a real change at Disney?

People come on forums to discus and argue opinions, in the end it is entertainment for them because I think most are well aware that it won't change anything. Change at Disney is only going to happen because someone in the Disney executive suites wants it and I doubt those guys spend any time on forums about Disney.

 

[flynnibus]

Mom took photos in same spot exactly 30 minutes before the tragedy: http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/06/...-her-child-was-same-spot-where-gator-attacked

I really wish 'news' sites wouldn't recirculate unvetted social media posts.

 

[Bairstow]

I would think someone from New York would know that no swimming signs aren't just because of a fear of drowning... You may be too young but in older times those signs weren't placed in some areas to keep people from drowning it was because the water was a health hazard and you could get truly jacked up just by getting the toxic soup of water and other things on you.

The overwhelming majority of "no swimming" signs in this country are effectively meaningless.

They exist only for liability reasons, not to warn of actual danger.

 

[Filby61]

The media narrative on this tragedy is obvious: "Disney knew they had a gator problem but didn't do enough to warn guests about the danger because of money (they didn't want to scare off their big spenders)."

Disney's choice is clear -- immediately take control of the narrative by launching an aggressive triple-policy of guest protection, alligator control and guest education; or play it cheap and let the media narrative control the public perception.

 

[ford91exploder]

The media narrative on this tragedy is obvious: Disney knew they had a gator problem but didn't do enough to warn guests about the danger because of money (they don't want to scare the big spenders). Disney's choice is clear -- immediately take control of the narrative by launching an aggressive triple-policy of guest protection, alligator control and guest education; or play it cheap and let the current media narrative control the public perception.

Disney willl take the latter course as the public's memory is short...

 

[Kylo Ken]

I won't... but then how much bickering and arguing over the fastpass system is going to change it, or bickering and arguing over anything on the forum going to actually result in a real change at Disney?

People come on forums to discus and argue opinions, in the end it is entertainment for them because I think most are well aware that it won't change anything. Change at Disney is only going to happen because someone in the Disney executive suites wants it and I doubt those guys spend any time on forums about Disney.

I think you missed the point of what I was saying. A child lost his life on a freak occurrence. A lot of people can relate because they have small children or have stood at that very spot, so it hits close to home. Plus, people have gone above and beyond by parent shaming etc. Comparing it to the debate that occurs when talking about FastPass is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

[Cletus]

This guy called me a lazy parent knowing nothing about me and implied my kid must be a, uh, "poopless* heathen."

*i cleaned up his language. The word he used started with S.

So he's not exactly a nice guy. Probably best if we all stop engaging with the man who was so busy never blinking around his children he never learned how to have a respectful conversation without name-calling.

At this rate, most likely none of us will have to ignore him. *hint*

 

[R W B]

Gator warning signs on the way.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...ator-attack-signs-warning-20160616-story.html

This, I can agree with. What I was afraid of was Disney overreacting and either fencing the beach in/off or worse yet turning it into grass up to the water like Port Orleans has. Taking the beach away from the poly wouldn't go to well with those fancy hut they just built but in today's sociecty companies over react to anything so I didn't think it was out of the question.

 

[Skyway]

No one should go near a nasty swamp like that especially with signs that say no swimming

Except for the people who pay Disney to water ski, wakeboard, parasail, and go tubing on that exact same lake????

 

[21stamps]

This, I can agree with. What I was afraid of was Disney overreacting and either fencing the beach in/off or worse yet turning it into grass up to the water like Port Orleans has. Taking the beach away from the poly wouldn't go to well with those fancy hut they just built but in today's sociecty companies over react to anything so I didn't think it was out of the question.

Me too. I'm glad they didn't.

 

[Filby61]

Disney willl take the latter course as the public's memory is short...

...And because the lifespan of Disney's revolving-door management is even shorter. Rather than spend money to attack the problem in a manner so vigorous that it overwhelms the media narrative, they're more likely to upgrade a few signs, print some safety handouts, run their CMs through a lawyer-approved hour of training, and punt the problem of dealing with their rapidly-growing gator population (and the guests who feed them) to the next management team.

 

[Bairstow]

Taking the beach away from the poly wouldn't go to well with those fancy hut they just built

Sure it would.
Every bungalow they build removes a section of beach from the open lagoon.

I can see their using this incident to justify building additional bungalows completely across the polynesian's shoreline now with a strong metal fence incorporated below the walkways that connect them.

In this way, they could completely block off anyone staying at the resort from accessing the beach proper AND add several more $2,100-a-night hotel rooms.

 

[Rutt]

My problem, actually, is that I served too many years in the Marine Corps, and I've grown into a cold-hearted, uhm.. female dog (trying not to break the rules). My opinion has changed since yesterday, realizing that it's a combination of different things and people that went wrong, and it's not %100 the parent's fault. I know that now. When I typed the message that you quoted, I was infuriated. Oh my goodness I was mad.

I was mad because, in my head, the parents broke the rules. I realize now that they might not have known the rules or about Florida wildlife. But for me, at that moment in my head, breaking rules is what gets people killed. I've seen it happen so many times on my tours in the Middle East and in Africa. We have rules for everything to keep ourselves alive. So then when I heard that the parents were with the kid and that the kid didn't just run off into the lake, to me that sounded like that knowingly broke the rules... and then tragedy struck.

But like I said, I think I can understand now that the parents might have misunderstood the signs (if they even saw the signs), or that they seriously didn't know anything about Florida. I never NOT felt bad for the parents. I was just angry at the loss of life.. again.

I think many of us were pretty upset yesterday and continue to be. It's something many parents would see and think 'man, that could have been my kid'. The lack of any real blame it reasoning makes it worse. That would be why we are on page 100 of the exact same debate.

I can't even begin to imagine how these parents feel. I keep wondering why I'm in this thread at all because even reading this hurts.

 

[rob0519]

This, I can agree with. What I was afraid of was Disney overreacting and either fencing the beach in/off or worse yet turning it into grass up to the water like Port Orleans has. Taking the beach away from the poly wouldn't go to well with those fancy hut they just built but in today's sociecty companies over react to anything so I didn't think it was out of the question.

The signs had to go up quickly. This was a no brainer for Disney. However, over time, do not rule out the construction of a low level, decorative/functional wall of some type at all the beaches that would serve as a reminder to not even wade into the water and still not obstruct the views.

 

[21stamps]

...And because the lifespan of Disney's revolving-door management is even shorter. Rather than spend money to attack the problem in a manner so vigorous that it overwhelms the media narrative, they'll upgrade a few signs, print some safety handouts, run their CMs through a lawyer-designed hour of training, and punt the problem of dealing with their rapidly-growing gator population (and the guests who feed them) to the next management team.

They can't attack the problem without removing everything that people love about staying there.

I know that myself and millions of others do not need a "wildlife course" when we go on vacation. Don't punish us because some people choose to be ignorant on where they are traveling to.

I also know, as someone who stays at the monorails resorts, that I would hate to see a wall or a fence separating the water from the beach, all because a 1 in 2.4 million chance actually happened and now people are severely over reacting and being completely unreasonable.

One horrific and terribly sad, but completely RARE accident is not cause for the kind of actions that you and others are proposing.

 

[Clamman73]

Mom took photos in same spot exactly 30 minutes before the tragedy: http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/06/...-her-child-was-same-spot-where-gator-attacked

Their child was ankle deep. I guess he was "swimming". SMH.

One thing I notice about the photos is that in addition to the signage they should have done a better job of clearing out the vegetation growing in the water's edge. I'm thinking the gator used it to hide.

Yeah that vegetation anywhere by shoreline where people have direct access to needs to cleared out. I'm all for things being in a natural state, but they gotta be more aggressive with keeping areas where sand goes to the waters edge free of vegetation. Otherwise they might as well extend the rock edge of the shoreline the whole way.
Here's a shot from the fall when I took a walk from Poly to GF.