Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Even if it there have been gator attacks, those aren't very numerous, given the 45 year history and the sheer number of guests that have visited the parks in that time.
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From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon
- Thread starter simba2
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Even if it there have been gator attacks, those aren't very numerous, given the 45 year history and the sheer number of guests that have visited the parks in that time.
Hey if any of you don't want to go I'll take the grand Floridian or any free plane tickets or Disney tickets
I'm not someone who believes that Disney should be blamed for this. I look at it as a terrible accident and nothing more. However, I do think that something needs to change going forward. There's a lot of activity in that water. People rent small boats and even go water skiing. Can that continue knowing that there are alligators in there? Maybe you can still rent boats but I for one would never go water skiing or anything that would involve me getting in that water knowing what could be lurking down there.
Going to be interesting to see what Disney does here going forward. When someone loses their life, you have to be very strict and change the rules so that you ensure that a freak accident like this doesn't occur again.
Going to be interesting to see what Disney does here going forward. When someone loses their life, you have to be very strict and change the rules so that you ensure that a freak accident like this doesn't occur again.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
You are quite right.
Marco226
Well-Known Member
I admit you have a problem. Not sure how one fixes it. I know what mine would be if I were there. I agree with you that people are stupid. These posts confirm it without doubt
As for these parents, I wasn't there and can't even pretend to understand how they must feel. I know I feel sick to my stomach and (manly or not) have been brought to tears just thinking about the poor child. I also know on my heart that regardless of what actually happened and who's fault it may or may not be, these parents will forever blame themselves and two other children's lives will be irreperably damaged forever. You can take some solace in that oh mighty keyboard warrior.
My problem, actually, is that I served too many years in the Marine Corps, and I've grown into a cold-hearted, uhm.. female dog (trying not to break the rules). My opinion has changed since yesterday, realizing that it's a combination of different things and people that went wrong, and it's not %100 the parent's fault. I know that now. When I typed the message that you quoted, I was infuriated. Oh my goodness I was mad.
I was mad because, in my head, the parents broke the rules. I realize now that they might not have known the rules or about Florida wildlife. But for me, at that moment in my head, breaking rules is what gets people killed. I've seen it happen so many times on my tours in the Middle East and in Africa. We have rules for everything to keep ourselves alive. So then when I heard that the parents were with the kid and that the kid didn't just run off into the lake, to me that sounded like that knowingly broke the rules... and then tragedy struck.
But like I said, I think I can understand now that the parents might have misunderstood the signs (if they even saw the signs), or that they seriously didn't know anything about Florida. I never NOT felt bad for the parents. I was just angry at the loss of life.. again.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Here's the other attack...there may be more, but this is the one I was thinking about.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-by-an-alligator-at-disney-here-is-his-story/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-by-an-alligator-at-disney-here-is-his-story/
Mista C
Well-Known Member
I loooooved me some Fiesta Fun Center and movie theater when I was a kid in the 80's
G00fyDad
Well-Known Member
I am not saying that I am infallible as a parent. I have my own issues as a parent that could be addressed. What I am saying is that when we left the house I do not allow my children out of my sight for even a moment (unless they are inside an enclosed slide going down it of course.) Seriously. Not once. This is not me being superior at all. I have been fanatical about it to the irritation of other parent friends that were out with us on occasion. I would not socialize with them and I would be watching my child. Not eagle-eyeing them, but just keep my eyes fixed on them at all times. This was primarily because I was more worried that they were going to be kidnapped or be "that annoying kid" to others. Not because I felt that they were going to fall into a gorilla pit or get taken by an alligator. And despite what it has looked like I do not condemn other parents for not handling their children the way I do. I get irritated when someone gets all over me for being the way I am or when they are not watching their kids and the children are running around doing God knows what while the parent is clueless. I have my faults, but watching my kids (or grandchild) is not one of them.
JohnD
Well-Known Member
This post has made the news: http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/06/...rs-parents-whose-son-died-disney-gator-attack
JohnD
Well-Known Member
Fox News: Did Disney World Do Enough to Warn Guests About Alligator Danger?
The implied answer, of course, is "No."
The implied answer, of course, is "No."
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
I disagree with her statement. Tragic accident? Yes. Unforeseeable. HARDLY. While I wouldn't say the parents were negligent or any other word used to describe "bad parents", there was some carelessness here. Again, disregarding the alligators for a moment, I believe that getting in the water at a beach at night with no lifeguard or other sort of person nearby is poor judgment at best.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Same thing with Machinery and Wildlife there are rules to keep you safe the rules are not random just to annoy you they are to keep you safe and alive.
Fe Maiden
Well-Known Member
Grew up body surfing in N. Wildwood. Back then N.W. didn't allow rafts or boogie boards.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
You wouldnt say it but you are implying it.
Disney should have been warning guests about alligators and the danger they pose since the beginning. Let's be realistic, most people probably don't think much about the native wildlife on a vacation, unless that vacation is a national park or a hunting/fishing trip. And they really need to start enforcing policies. If CMs see people feeding an alligator, call security and throw the people out. Of course that won't stop every potential attack, but it will minimize the number of alligators who aren't afraid of people. Disney never enforces its rules for fear of bad publicity, but really all they end up doing is enabling inappropriate and illegal behavior. Disney prides itself on its customer service, but most of the time they aren't providing customer service, just "greasing the squeaky wheel".
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
I'm not your Mom, but I feel compelled to wade back in here (even if the waters are more dangerous due to persistent ignorance and insanity). I know the figure is high ... mental illness in the fan community is likely off the proverbial charts, and something I have contemplated writing a book on. And it gets worse in situations like this because they realize that Disney really isn't safe, that no place is. And then the attacking. It had to be bad parenting, which to be fair is on display at WDW right now just about at every turn, right? Or just a terrible happenstance? Something so terrible it has never happened before.
But ... a more reasonable person might look at current circumstances, try and see if anything has changed, and what might need to be changed to eliminate even more risk to Guests and to Disney's coffers.
So, I'm going to disagree with you here. Just in part, but it is a very important part.
Don't disagree with this. Although a reasonable person would realize they are never fully safe anywhere. But 99% true.
Again, can't really disagree. Floridians, indeed anyone living in the SE USA, would be (or you'd hope) smart enough to know there are hidden dangers. ... In all the insanity this thread has cultivated, I forgot to mention another personal incident I had about a decade plus ago on the beach at the Poly while waiting for fireworks at dusk. This was in a very well-lit area just to the right of the dock. People were sitting, kids were wading and I was doing what I have done there since childhood ... walking in the water ... no more than six-eight inches of water. Basically enjoying all that white sandy bottom on my tired feet when ... I saw a large snake slither by in the water. I have seen water moccasins and it didn't seem to be one, but my moved very quickly to dry sand. I yelled to the kids in the water and the parents and ... and ... and they didn't do a damn thing. Either they didn't think I was serious, they didn't think it could harm them or (c'mon, you want this one as bad as a fanboi wants to hookup with an Imagineer) they wanted their kids to get bitten and then sue Disney!!
Point being is that nature is nature and in FL that means all sorts of scary type critters share paradise with us. You have to take them seriously. Guest, Cast ... and WDW Co. And that brings me to this point:
And this is where we disagree. Education is definitely part of the answer.
And there is fault. There are multiple news outlets, including the O-Sentinel that never pushes Disney, that say Disney had a problem with Guests feeding gators. The Wrap is reporting that Disney has had issues with Guests at the new Poly DVC bungalows feedings them as I suggested.
In my experience and the experience of CM friends, I find this to be very accurate. This very thread shows a mommy and her kids throwing food to turtles when a gator swims up at Coronado Springs.
Education means a few things:
1.) It means having signs on those MAGICal beaches that say that potentially dangerous wildlife, including alligators and poisonous snakes, may be present at any time. That also includes little renderings of the critters, so language isn't an issue for anyone;
2.) It means having Guests at EVERY resort sign docs saying they will not feed any wildlife under possible penalty of being removed from WDW, possibly banned, and fined.
3.) It means special warnings and vigilance for all these hot, pricey over-the-water accommodations that DVC has been adding.
4.) It also means that CMs, often $10 an hour ones (do any still make less?) need to be trained to be proactive, so when a baby gator is seen in the RoA and idiots are tossing turkey leg pieces at it that they can go up and order the Guests to stop and call for other CMs and know they won't lose their job because the Guest they just 'insulted' is spending more in two weeks than they will make in six months. This will be difficult because Disney doesn't have managers with a clue, so something will need to change institutionally.
5.) There has to be a growing understanding up to George K's office (the man has lived in Central FL almost his entire life, has worked at WDW for almost his entire adult life and is not an idiot, well he can be but not the point) that due to WDW's aggressive build out of "the Florida Project" over the last 20 years coupled with insane growth all around the resort, which has put a huge strain on area wildlife and made encounters more likely. That means Disney has to be proactive ... and, no, that doesn't mean making beaches locked down zones. Why anyone would stay on waterfront property and not want to spend time in it is akin to taking a vegetarian to the best steakhouse in town.
So, is this WDW's fault. Not directly ... but kinda ... and sorta ... well, yeah, it is. ... Guest and Cast ignorance are ultimately things that Disney needs to be accountable for. And they have done more for less ... remember that 20 years ago, there were no gates on any attractions or the monorails because common sense said people won't walk into a flume without a boat present or onto coaster tracks or monorail beams. That changed because there was liability. There certainly is liability here.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Eh, the article was pretty balanced. There are many ways it could go. Any point it makes is pretty valid, particularly how Disney does up these beaches with chairs and umbrellas and makes it out to be a beachfront resort but you can't do what most folks naturally would do at such a location. Yes, there are some signs - but considering the obvious danger, both of alligators and that toxic bacteria, it does seem rather strange in retrospect that they don't do more to educate guests or prevent them from entering the water. My guess is there is already retraining going on with the folks who work check-in desks at the monorail resorts.
I'm all about parental responsibility - something that sorely lacks these days in so many cases - but at night if they didn't happen to notice one of these signs, and no one told them, coming from Nebraska - I can totally see why they didn't see danger in the kid splashing around in a couple of inches of water. It's not like the kid had climbed somewhere he wasn't supposed to be or was already doing something inherently dangerous.
MichRX7
Well-Known Member
I've been staying in that campground multiple times a year since it opened. My parents were school teachers and my grandparents lived in Bradenton, FL and we would routinely stay at Ft Wilderness in our Airstream trailer. The first thing my parents did when we arrived was take us boys down to the waters edge of one of the many waterways that run through Ft Wilderness during the day and tell us to never be near that water without them during the day and never ever at night. I remember my brother getting decked by my Dad for chasing a tether-ball that broke free down near the water one time and I never forgot it. When we took my children down for their first trip to WDW & Ft Wilderness I took them to the waters edge before even leveling my Airstream trailer, pointed at the water, explained the dangers that could be lurking anywhere and sent them off to play tether-ball. And yes, they'd have been punished in much the same manner as my father did my brother had they chased that ball near the water. If you are in Florida and near water that isn't heavily salted you will see alligators, period.
I'm not blaming the parents, I'm not shaming the parents, I'm just explaining how my Michigan parents taught us to respect in-land water in the state of Florida, and I'm glad they did because if you are in Ft Wilderness you see gators and other wildlife all the time. Of course they did the same thing with Bears and getting off beaten paths when we were in Yellowstone and Yosemite, but they didn't have tether-ball.
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