From the OS: Gator drags child into Seven Seas Lagoon

[flynnibus]

For photography purposes I'm done about a half hour after sunset. I wouldn't exactly call it dark out though at that point, If I were going to have an evening stroll along the beach I would find sunset to about an hour past it to be acceptable.

how old is that picture? Did you even find it from TWDC marketing... or 3rd party people still using ancient content?

 

[s8film40]

And what about people that roast marshmellows on their own? Should there be signs in the grocery store aisles telling them the dangers of melting sugar or working with fire?

I'm not a big believer in everything needs a warning. I am actually the type of person though that reads signs and follows rules. I like to be informed about any possible dangers, I don't need the obvious thrown in my face all the time. I would certainly categorize a danger of gators in the helpful information category. If I go to a marshmallow roast I am perfectly fine with kids being told about the dangers, if I host one on my own I'll probably look up information for it, what to look out for, etc. and take responsibility as any host should.

 

[s8film40]

how old is that picture? Did you even find it from TWDC marketing... or 3rd party people still using ancient content?

I didn't take that photo. I assume it's from Disney marketing as I've seen it around before. How old it is is irrelevant. It's the way the hotel is/was marketed. While they have moved away from using the beach as the amenity it once was the beach is still very much an amenity of the resort.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Well, I'd like to apologize for getting so worked up last night. All I can think of regarding this tragedy is that family, who came to WDW to experience Disney magic and build family memories, and look what they got instead. Now they have to go home to their house and plan a funeral and deal with the child's toys and clothes being there. And deal with the fact that they have to face every family holiday like Halloween and Christmas without that child. I can't imagine anything worse.

 

[flynnibus]

I didn't take that photo. I assume it's from Disney marketing as I've seen it around before. How old it is is irrelevant. It's the way the hotel is/was marketed

Uhh... age is very relevant to your point because your argument is about how the resort is marketed and promoted. People aren't acting on the beach this week based on marketing they never saw from more than a decade ago. It's not representative the property is being marketed now or what customers are being exposed to now. So to use it in such a discussion is fluff.

 

[21stamps]

I didn't take that photo. I assume it's from Disney marketing as I've seen it around before. How old it is is irrelevant. It's the way the hotel is/was marketed. While they have moved away from using the beach as the amenity it once was the beach is still very much an amenity of the resort.

I'm sorry but this is not true at all. I have photos of myself and my siblings in a car without a car seat or booster. Doesn't mean that because it was "ok" back then that now my son shouldn't be in a car seat.

No, that's not an advertisement, but I'm sure you could find plenty that were ok 'once upon a time' but now have new rules preventing the actions seen in those advertisements.

 

[21stamps]

I didn't take that photo. I assume it's from Disney marketing as I've seen it around before. How old it is is irrelevant. It's the way the hotel is/was marketed. While they have moved away from using the beach as the amenity it once was the beach is still very much an amenity of the resort.

Here ya go. Advertisements which are no longer any indication of current times.
Bikes still don't include helmets with the purchase of a bike. But for those of us living in 2016 we know to buy our children helmets.
We know that we need to buy car seats as well.

You can't take a photo from 20-30 years ago and apply it to today or what people should expect today.

 

[Frankie The Beer]

Disney is negligent? So if a wild alligator comes on my property and kills someone that makes me responsible? Lots of "internet lawyers" I would not want on retainer.

 

[s8film40]

Uhh... age is very relevant to your point because your argument is about how the resort is marketed and promoted. People aren't acting on the beach this week based on marketing they never saw from more than a decade ago. It's not representative the property is being marketed now or what customers are being exposed to now. So to use it in such a discussion is fluff.

I'm sorry but this is not true at all. I have photos of myself and my siblings in a car without a car seat or booster. Doesn't mean that because it was "ok" back then that now my son shouldn't be in a car seat.

No, that's not an advertisement, but I'm sure you could find plenty that were ok 'once upon a time' but now have new rules preventing the actions seen in those advertisements.

Here ya go. Advertisements which are no longer any indication of current times.
Bikes still don't include helmets with the purchase of a bike. But for those of us living in 2016 we know to buy our children helmets.
We know that we need to buy car seats as well.

You can't take a photo from 20-30 years ago and apply it to today or what people should expect today.
View attachment 146517 View attachment 146518

You guys are missing the point. These are advertisements not instructions on how to use the car or stay at the resort. They are merely meant to set the tone for the resort. The point is when they choose to set the tone for the resort wether it be in the past or now the beach is an important element. The beach is very much present in the GF current marketing. Yes, they no longer actually show people walking in it, but that doesn't mean it's off limits. They host all kinds of activities on the beach, it's very much an amenity of the resort. I really hope you don't seriously limit yourself to only enjoying activities that are shown in current marketing photos. They don't have a photo of someone using a water fountain in the lobby that doesn't mean it's not allowed. You guys are taking this way too seriously.

 

[21stamps]

You guys are missing the point. These are advertisements not instructions on how to use the car or stay at the resort. They are merely meant to set the tone for the resort. The point is when they choose to set the tone for the resort wether it be in the past or now the beach is an important element. The beach is very much present in the GF current marketing. Yes, they no longer actually show people walking in it, but that doesn't mean it's off limits. They host all kinds of activities on the beach, it's very much an amenity of the resort. I really hope you don't seriously limit yourself to only enjoying activities that are shown in current marketing photos. They don't have a photo of someone using a water fountain in the lobby that doesn't mean it's not allowed. You guys are taking this way too seriously.

When is the last time you have stayed at one of these resorts? I'll repeat- not one place on property is encouraging people to go in the water, besides on a watercraft. Also, not seen in any of their modern day advertisements. So that old photo is completely irrelevant, and doesn't come close to setting a tone for today.

I can only speak for myself- but I do take it seriously when someone tries to manipulate the truth. Posting an outdated photo is doing just that.

 

[s8film40]

When is the last time you have stayed at one of these resorts? I'll repeat- not one place on property is encouraging people to go in the water, besides on a watercraft. Also, not seen in any of their modern day advertisements. So that old photo is completely irrelevant, and doesn't come close to setting a tone for today.

Well we're not discussing going in the water. We're talking about walking on the beach. Wether your feet are physically in the water or not is really irrelevant to this situation.

 

[flynnibus]

You guys are missing the point. These are advertisements not instructions on how to use the car or stay at the resort. They are merely meant to set the tone for the resort. The point is when they choose to set the tone for the resort wether it be in the past or now the beach is an important element. The beach is very much present in the GF current marketing.

Care to illustrate that with some citations actually from Disney and something from the last 5 years? Because when you go through Disney's GF site right now... you won't find the beach mentioned at all. It's seen in photos as they show the DVC side and Wedding Pavilion but it's not even called out as an amenity. References to EWP for instance refer to the 'shoreline'.

Arguing how they advertise the resort to guests and then justifying where/when the marketing is from as irrelevant is complete stupidity.

I really hope you don't seriously limit yourself to only enjoying activities that are shown in current marketing photos

I really hope you don't show up at the front desk with a brochure from 1991 and complain about things missing because you saw it in a picture and its no longer there.

You're advocating how the property is marketed and positioned... essential to that argument is the marketing and positioning being used.

 

[21stamps]

Well we're not discussing going in the water. We're talking about walking on the beach. Wether your feet are physically in the water or not is really irrelevant to this situation.

What?! Ok, I don't know what "we" are talking about then. These beaches are not a foot of sand. The activities do not take place at water's edge. So "we" are no longer talking about if you should be walking in or on the edge of the water, "we" are now saying that you shouldn't be on a beach period?

 

[KingdomofDreams]

Disney is aware there are alligators present in all the waters on property so there should be specific warnings on signage and provided to all resort guests at check-in. The signs at the water's edge should state more than simply "No Swimming". There's not a lot they can do to limit guest encounters with indigenous wildlife but they can, and should, certainly do more to make guests aware of the specific threat.

 

[s8film40]

Care to illustrate that with some citations actually from Disney and something from the last 5 years? Because when you go through Disney's GF site right now... you won't find the beach mentioned at all. It's seen in photos as they show the DVC side and Wedding Pavilion but it's not even called out as an amenity. References to EWP for instance refer to the 'shoreline'.

Arguing how they advertise the resort to guests and then justifying where/when the marketing is from as irrelevant is complete stupidity.



I really hope you don't show up at the front desk with a brochure from 1991 and complain about things missing because you saw it in a picture and its no longer there.

You're advocating how the property is marketed and positioned... essential to that argument is the marketing and positioning being used.

It'a apparent you just don't get marketing. I work in this field so I understand what they're trying to do with these photos. A photo is not a list of what you can and cannot do. A photo is not a list of what amenities are present. A photos is intended to show the resort in the best light and illustrate the lifestyle you can experience at the resort. These are beach resorts, they're positioned that way. In fact it was initially called the Grand Floridian Beach resort, until it was changed to avoid confusion with Disney's other beach resorts (which also have the same exact situation with their beaches). People walk along these beaches all the time, there is absolutely no indication that that is not allowed.

 

[21stamps]

I just went back thru some pictures, I was wrong. My kid did in fact go in the water at the main beach. Not swimming, but yes walking in it...and also yes, I knew that he wasn't really supposed to. You are able to see the bottom there. And hopefully we would have seen and been able to get away from an alligator since it wasn't dark. The Luau beach is different, again, my fear of more than just alligators Is why I don't go or allow my child to go in grassy water. But my point is - I KNOW that gators could be in the water and I still allowed it. Because no reasonable person will actually expect it to happen.

 

[flynnibus]

It'a apparent you just don't get marketing. I work in this field so I understand what they're trying to do with these photos

That's just it... you won't even find the photos!! I challenge you to find a The beach is only seen in flyovers and is never even mentioned by name or as an amenity to enjoy on the property on the main GF site. Disney's own gallery doesn't even show it. You'll struggle to find the most basic references.. finding only things like 'white sand beaches for sunbathing' copy buried in a brochure - yet they won't dedicate the real estate in the page to photos of this thing.. instead chosing the pools, the marina, etc.

By your logic is Disney marketing promoting the break rock as a valued portion of the property since it shares the SAME EXACT PROMINENCE in Disney's marketing on their main website for the resort?

We all know the history of the resort and the past - but you apparently are relying on memory and refuse to review how Disney is presenting the property CURRENTLY. Using photos from the 1990s doesn't support your arguments about what guests should be expecting these days. Your attempt to support your postulation with the walking along the beach photo is a failure.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Never going to happen.. Disney will tell them to stop, they will go 'oh, I didn't realize...' and Disney will give them at best a Stern lecture and send them away from the location. Guests at a location like the Bungalows, if they kept doing it, I could see Disney kicking them out of their room or moving them.

But next time Disney revamps the grounds of a resort... you could see them changing the designs of the open spaces.

Are you saying that wouldn't be magical? They could justify it, it's a safety issue.

 

[flynnibus]

Are you saying that wouldn't be magical? They could justify it, it's a safety issue.

So is much of the stupid guest behavior in the parks... hasn't change anything in 20+ years. Unless you are about to cause a physical altercation, block the parade, or need medical attention... guests have been conditioned to basically tell CMs where to stuff it and get away with it.

Be it kids climbing on stuff, swinging on chains, standing where you aren't supposed to be, going backstage, etc.. you really gotta try hard to get Disney to do more than shuffle you 'back to center'..

 

[asianway]

So is much of the stupid guest behavior in the parks... hasn't change anything in 20+ years. Unless you are about to cause a physical altercation, block the parade, or need medical attention... guests have been conditioned to basically tell CMs where to stuff it and get away with it.

Be it kids climbing on stuff, swinging on chains, standing where you aren't supposed to be, going backstage, etc.. you really gotta try hard to get Disney to do more than shuffle you 'back to center'..

Then when they do finally trespass someone, they let them back in...