News from the New York Times today: "Is a Disney Theme Park Vacation Still Worth the Price?"

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The middle class is shrinking

"The share of Americans who are in the middle class is smaller than it used to be. In 1971, 61% of Americans lived in middle-class households. By 2023, the share had fallen to 51%, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of government data. As a result, Americans are more apart than before financially.May 31, 2024"
Current trajectory is that number is going to drop dramatically over the next few decades as well. Whole areas of the country will deflate.

It’s the problem, Robin leach, with the obsession of accumulation. The upward funnel.

Huge problem for Disney…some just hang around here and shout to the wind it’s not. They are wrong.
 

denyuntilcaught

Well-Known Member
The middle class is shrinking

"The share of Americans who are in the middle class is smaller than it used to be. In 1971, 61% of Americans lived in middle-class households. By 2023, the share had fallen to 51%, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of government data. As a result, Americans are more apart than before financially.May 31, 2024"
Well then, the question remains does it make sense in the long term for Disney to continue their focus on the middle class if it's shrinking either way? Maybe their focus on higher incomes makes more sense?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Well then, the question remains does it make sense in the long term for Disney to continue their focus on the middle class if it's shrinking either way? Maybe their focus on higher incomes makes more sense?
The dynamics of the park profit engine require the middle class…volume, repeat business and goodwill word of mouth advertising.

It’s not optional…it’s how the model works

About ten years ago…a fool suggested that they have the option of not doing that.

It wasn’t true and it will never be true. Don’t fall for it. You can’t provide the service standards needed for that with low wages and cost accounting driving the operation. That’s what Disney parks do…and they more they do it…the further they go away from “luxury”

Orlando ain’t a “luxury” town. Their clientele certainly isn’t. It’s meant to be predictably middle of the road. And it works.

Now lovely communities like this tend to not portray the reality correctly.
You got a lot of dust and a lot of people who really see a dvc contract and 4 day trips on the Mickey boats as a symbol of life’s accomplishments 🙄

…so your question makes it palatable: “why don’t they just go premium…then I can ride the 60 year old teacups and star tours in my sweatshirt unmolested by people who haven’t pledged their wallet to lord Iger…”

See how silly that sounds from the Birds Eye view?
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
The dynamics of the park profit engine require the middle class…volume, repeat business and goodwill word of mouth advertising.

It’s not optional…it’s how the model works

About ten years ago…a fool suggested that they have the option of not doing that.

It wasn’t true and it will never be true. Don’t fall for it. You can’t provide the service standards needed for that with low wages and cost accounting driving the operation. That’s what Disney parks do…and they more they do it…the further they go away from “luxury”

Orlando ain’t a “luxury” town. Their clientele certainly isn’t. It’s meant to be predictably middle of the road. And it works.

Now lovely communities like this tend to not portray the reality correctly.
You got a lot of dust and a lot of people who really see a dvc contract and 4 day trips on the Mickey boats as a symbol of life’s accomplishments 🙄

…so your question makes it palatable: “why don’t they just go premium…then I can ride the 60 year old teacups and star tours in my sweatshirt unmolested by people who haven’t pledged their wallet to lord Iger…”

See how silly that sounds from the Birds Eye view?
Does that upper class really care about Disney as an annual vacation spot? I'm sure some do. But as an example, my sister falls squarely in the upper class. She loves Disney but they are traveling to Spain, France, England, Germany and they're doing an eastern European trip in a month or so. That's just the last 5yrs or so. They will go to Disney for a day or two if they go to one of their favorite beach spots. But is that enough? 3 days every few years?

Compared to a middle class family like ours, who basically went EVERY year for at least 8 days. We missed only 2 years out of 20+ when my daughter and son were infants. It wasn't until 2017 that we stopped. We've been I believe twice since. And one was for just a couple days after we spent the week at the beach. Last summer was our first full week since that time. I highly doubt we're the only ones who have shifted our priorities away from Disney because it's just not worth it for the price. Will the upper class be able to make up for a mass exodus? That's to be seen, but it didn't work out so well for the star cruiser.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Does that upper class really care about Disney as an annual vacation spot? I'm sure some do. But as an example, my sister falls squarely in the upper class. She loves Disney but they are traveling to Spain, France, England, Germany and they're doing an eastern European trip in a month or so. That's just the last 5yrs or so. They will go to Disney for a day or two if they go to one of their favorite beach spots. But is that enough? 3 days every few years?

Compared to a middle class family like ours, who basically went EVERY year for at least 8 days. We missed only 2 years out of 20+ when my daughter and son were infants. It wasn't until 2017 that we stopped. We've been I believe twice since. And one was for just a couple days after we spent the week at the beach. Last summer was our first full week since that time. I highly doubt we're the only ones who have shifted our priorities away from Disney because it's just not worth it for the price. Will the upper class be able to make up for a mass exodus? That's to be seen, but it didn't work out so well for the star cruiser.
Those with money check it off the list…for sure.

But the product and service isn’t close to locking them in.

Disney parks…particularly wdw…are fed by the repeat customer. That is why it’s half dvc on property.

The prices are nuts now…but it’s not luxury. That’s why the corners are being shaved into the shape of a donut…with a whole getting larger in the middle.

People went nuts…I for one warned them years ago (cause I’m unmagical)…that it’s not a one shot place fed by “whales”…

Those whales never existed…we should call them “unicorn whales”. I’m gonna ride one in British Columbia tomorrow…I’ll send pictures.

What happened is some parks fans got out over their skis…and opened the door for a parasite…but ultimately transient management to go down a road with a dead end.

This isn’t a path to sustainability…only the value and appeal that built the repeat customers and the rep in the first place is.

That’s it…you don’t like it yachtsman Bob?

Quit bro…you ran through the door once…go slow and enjoy the view this time.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Well then, the question remains does it make sense in the long term for Disney to continue their focus on the middle class if it's shrinking either way? Maybe their focus on higher incomes makes more sense?

I think there is some confusion about “class” vs. “price”, because the US is still a relatively (relatively) egalitarian kinda place.

There are no stations or castes that are being specifically marketed to here. There is more $$ vs. less $$. The free market has some issues, but one of its virtues is egalitarianism. You cough up the dosh, you’re on equal footing as anyone else who did so. The focus is on price point, and little else. And price point depends on demand and what people are willing to pay.
 

wutisgood

Well-Known Member
Orlando is a very cheap market to vacation apart some ticket prices. For now as much as the middle the class might be shrinking, volume on budget flights to Orlando is increasing. I always spend less per day than I would make in a day off. For a 4 day 3 event Halloween trip I am splitting around a 1500 total cost with flights and transit with my brother. That is not factoring in our 350 15 month universal renewal which you could probably add in as maybe 100 in value.

Disney also has kept basically unfairly cheap prices on seasonal passes for locals in Orlando. If I were very limited in entertainment options in the Orlando market Disney world would actually be the best value thing I could pay for if I were nout straight up broke.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Will the upper class be able to make up for a mass exodus?
They will not. It will only work if prices rise at a higher rate than attendance decline. If prices rise at the same rate of decline, this will only result in zero growth. While medium class is priced out of attendance, food and merch, upper class will not purchase more merch and food to compensate for the middle class loss of sale.
 

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
Those parks were designed for and sustained by the middle class.

Which is Disneys big problem
They won’t be able to talk their way around
Classic MBA who actually knows nothing blunder. In an attempt to grow and increase profits - taking advantage of, alienating, and outright abandoning your core customer (and own company ethos and values) in hopes of going after a different demographic.

When it works, it works really well, but more often than not it fails spectacularly and destroys the brand and subsequently the business in the process; sacrificing long term success and viability for short term (unsustainable) gain.

In short, dance with the one that brought you.
 
Last edited:

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Len. Great article. To see prices have gone up 25% is one thing but to see 70% of that is due to now charging for things that used to be free is another. Wow.

And this is so true:
“I’ve had a number of people in the last few years say, ‘We priced it out and we could take our children to eat pizza in the Italy pavilion in Epcot or for the same money we could actually go to Italy for two weeks. We’re going to go to Italy for two weeks.’”
I keep going because I'm local and have deep nostalgia for the parks but certainly couldn't blame anyone for "doing the math" and saying no thanks.
Yep, read comments from non-Disney people on reddit when they hear how much people spend to go to WDW. They are quick to note all the other places one could visit and experience with that money.

I have been told I could spend as much if not less to visit the international Disney parks while also getting to see Tokyo, Paris, or Hong Kong.

My family budget is finally to the point where could potentially save enough up for a decent Disney trip every year or so. Even my big parks fan wife noted the other week that money could go a lot further doing other things and that there is more to see in the world than just Disney.
 

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
That.

And, as I canvas others who aren’t necessarily as affected, those who have traveled there in recent years, they look at the value proposition with what it’s going to cost relative to what that got you in recent memory and they’re passing.

Our family, who went 2-3 times a year between 2017 and 2022, are now Universal and a regional theme park’s seasonal pass holders.
My family has also become regional theme park pass holders the past two years. With Cedar Fair and Six Flags now merged, a few hundred dollars for a family gets you an All Parks Passport for over 20 parks across the country opening a lot of potentially new vacation destinations.
 

JenniferS

When you're the leader, you don't have to follow.
Gift link to the NYT article.

Also the Wall Street Journal today: "Americans Are Skipping Theme Parks This Summer."
“At some point a Disney vacation starts competing with ‘Let’s go see Europe’ and I think that’s what a lot of people are doing,” Mr. Testa said. “I’ve had a number of people in the last few years say, ‘We priced it out and we could take our children to eat pizza in the Italy pavilion in Epcot or for the same money we could actually go to Italy for two weeks. We’re going to go to Italy for two weeks.’”

This says it all.
 

winstongator

Well-Known Member
When I'll know that Disney is seeing attendance decline impacting their bottom lines is when they run specials on Florida resident annual passes. The last time I saw that was the 15 for 12 promotion they did in 2016/7? Or they run "free dining" like Universal is now.

Florida passholders and #months/pass is a way for them to boost attendance pretty quickly without lowering costs for the families from Denver.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
When Disney raises prices, they don't attract a more affluent clientele, their existing customer base just puts themselves further into debt, or skips Disney altogether.

Disney can't position themselves as a luxury product, because hot theme parks with thousands of slobby tourists and their screaming kids will never be a luxury experience. You might get the odd VIP who splurges for a plaid because their kid begged them to go, but they're not enough on their own to keep the business going or replaced lost volume.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom