News from the New York Times today: "Is a Disney Theme Park Vacation Still Worth the Price?"

[Disstevefan1]

When Disney raises prices, they don't attract a more affluent clientele, their existing customer base just puts themselves further into debt, or skips Disney altogether.

Disney can't position themselves as a luxury product, because hot theme parks with thousands of slobby tourists and their screaming kids will never be a luxury experience. You might get the odd VIP who splurges for a plaid because their kid begged them to go, but they're not enough on their own to keep the business going or replaced lost volume.

I think there are plenty of VIPs who splurge for a plaid.

Then they tell their friend they splurged for a plaid, then their friend wants little Sally and Johnny to experience the VIP experience and are kept away from those slobby tourists.

And so on to the next friend.

Now that Disney trespassed all the unofficial tour guides, Disney is making big money from the VIPs.

Now that Disney fixed DAS, they are also making LL money from their slobby tourists.

 

[wutisgood]

My family has also become regional theme park pass holders the past two years. With Cedar Fair and Six Flags now merged, a few hundred dollars for a family gets you an All Parks Passport for over 20 parks across the country opening a lot of potentially new vacation destinations.

I think cedar point in particular is going to have a hige boost in revenue in attendance. Kings Dominion and Cedar Point are huge value gains for people in the most populated part of the northeast. A tom of people are going to have a reason to visit dorney that have not been in years as well. I could see myself going to dorney more often in the summer for the waterpark and camping for an overnight trip at kings dominion paying for itself. I honestly cannot see ever dropping the all parks pass at this point for the chain.

As far as disney parks go they are a volume product. You start to run out of rich people as the price goes up as the people at the top of the pyramid hold so much of the wealth that they are only going to spend so much of their time at disney no matter the price. Many of those people also only ever buying VIP. I assume some of them that can't get their DAS access anymore are just going other places as well. Disney does not actually want to keep attendance lower. They want the parks packed at the max price they can sustain. They want to keep the list price high but as the cirrent ticket deals would tell you they would rather have discounts if that is what it takes to pack the parks.

The future investments are likely mostly about not wanting to have to discount again. Chapek basically doubled the effective price for many people by post covid travel and star wars land driving up demand. When I went to disneyland in 2019 I paid about 230 for a 5 day one park per day pass. Most of the price increases now are the fact that it was a $120 discount which has evaporated and the need to buy genie plus at least a few days.

I think people forget that rich people don't just spend money because they can when the price for something goes up. They often are aware of many coparisons for that money and have already traveled the world. If disney wants to price their fake luxury hotels at luxury pricing actual poeple who pay for luxury hotels are not just going to buy it repeatedly and maybe not at all given the number of new luxury hotel capacity in orlando.

 

[Laketravis]

My family has also become regional theme park pass holders the past two years. With Cedar Fair and Six Flags now merged, a few hundred dollars for a family gets you an All Parks Passport for over 20 parks across the country opening a lot of potentially new vacation destinations.

Starting back in the late 2000's I would get those season passes every other year - could get them in late August and they were good for the rest of the current year and all of the next so literally 15 months worth of annual passes. Worked out great for us with one Six Flags park an hour away and another three hours away.

They still sell them in late summer for the rest of the current year and all of the next. They are about double what I use to pay but is still an excellent deal. Plus you can throw in their version of a dining plan and for less than $200 a person get two meals a day, every day you go to any of the parks, for more than an entire year. Or even less than $100 if you stick with your "home" park.

My son and I took advantage of that several years ago with a three week long "Extreme Roller Coaster Rode Trip" across the country to several Six Flags parks. After less than $400 for two season, parking, and meal passes that we still continued to use at home for another year, I only had to pay for fuel and lodging.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Orlando is a very cheap market to vacation apart some ticket prices. For now as much as the middle the class might be shrinking, volume on budget flights to Orlando is increasing. I always spend less per day than I would make in a day off. For a 4 day 3 event Halloween trip I am splitting around a 1500 total cost with flights and transit with my brother. That is not factoring in our 350 15 month universal renewal which you could probably add in as maybe 100 in value.

Disney also has kept basically unfairly cheap prices on seasonal passes for locals in Orlando. If I were very limited in entertainment options in the Orlando market Disney world would actually be the best value thing I could pay for if I were nout straight up broke.

Tell me you never/can’t afford to get out of Orlando without telling me you never get out of Orlando?

 

[TalkingHead]

When Disney raises prices, they don't attract a more affluent clientele, their existing customer base just puts themselves further into debt, or skips Disney altogether.

Disney can't position themselves as a luxury product, because hot theme parks with thousands of slobby tourists and their screaming kids will never be a luxury experience. You might get the odd VIP who splurges for a plaid because their kid begged them to go, but they're not enough on their own to keep the business going or replaced lost volume.

Iger has never understood showmanship or the brand appeal, and he has delusions of grandeur = this

 

[winstongator]

I think cedar point in particular is going to have a hige boost in revenue in attendance. Kings Dominion and Cedar Point are huge value gains for people in the most populated part of the northeast. A tom of people are going to have a reason to visit dorney that have not been in years as well. I could see myself going to dorney more often in the summer for the waterpark and camping for an overnight trip at kings dominion paying for itself. I honestly cannot see ever dropping the all parks pass at this point for the chain.

As far as disney parks go they are a volume product. You start to run out of rich people as the price goes up as the people at the top of the pyramid hold so much of the wealth that they are only going to spend so much of their time at disney no matter the price. Many of those people also only ever buying VIP. I assume some of them that can't get their DAS access anymore are just going other places as well. Disney does not actually want to keep attendance lower. They want the parks packed at the max price they can sustain. They want to keep the list price high but as the cirrent ticket deals would tell you they would rather have discounts if that is what it takes to pack the parks.

The future investments are likely mostly about not wanting to have to discount again. Chapek basically doubled the effective price for many people by post covid travel and star wars land driving up demand. When I went to disneyland in 2019 I paid about 230 for a 5 day one park per day pass. Most of the price increases now are the fact that it was a $120 discount which has evaporated and the need to buy genie plus at least a few days.

I think people forget that rich people don't just spend money because they can when the price for something goes up. They often are aware of many coparisons for that money and have already traveled the world. If disney wants to price their fake luxury hotels at luxury pricing actual poeple who pay for luxury hotels are not just going to buy it repeatedly and maybe not at all given the number of new luxury hotel capacity in orlando.

In March 2020 I thought that Cedar Fair, Six Flags and Sea World weren't going to be able to weather the shutdowns. They had loads of debt and no secondary products (ESPN/ABC) to carry them through. I almost shorted their stocks. I'd need to check, but I would imagine that they've done better over the past 5 years than DIS. (checked, DIS down 38%, FUN down 22%, PRKS up 60%!)

I agree with your basic premise on the regional parks. They do seem a great value now. However, as the middle class shrank, more formerly middle class families went into the upper class than fell into the lower class (reference: https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2024/05/31/the-state-of-the-american-middle-class/).

My guess is that they'll run a special for Florida residents & DVC to eat up any spare attendance capacity, either through passholder promotions or special FL resident tickets.

The parks are making 50% more profit now than they did in 2019, and roughly double what they did in 2016. The approach they're taking has been working for shareholders. At least short-term.

 

[Raineman]

We did a 14 day cruise to Alaska for less than a 14 day trip to WDW

For the same price as 8 nights at a standard room at moderate resort, 7 days of park tickets for 3 people and the dining plan, we got 2 weeks in an oceanfront presidential suite at a brand new 5 star all-inclusive resort in Cancun for 3 people. That is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[John park hopper]

For the same price as 8 nights at a standard room at moderate resort, 7 days of park tickets for 3 people and the dining plan, we got 2 weeks in an oceanfront presidential suite at a brand new 5 star all-inclusive resort in Cancun for 3 people. That is absolutely ridiculous.

I bet it was an actual 5 star hotel and not Disney's fake definition of Luxury Resort

 

[DryerLintFan]

I think there is some confusion about “class” vs. “price”, because the US is still a relatively (relatively) egalitarian kinda place.

There are no stations or castes that are being specifically marketed to here. There is more $$ vs. less $$. The free market has some issues, but one of its virtues is egalitarianism. You cough up the dosh, you’re on equal footing as anyone else who did so. The focus is on price point, and little else. And price point depends on demand and what people are willing to pay.

Are you actually trying to argue that America doesn’t have a lower, middle, and upper class?!

If you price a Disney trip at $3k, a lower class family might be able to swing the trip once every handful of years, a middle class family might go once or twice a year, and an upper class family might go once every handful of years because they have better places to go.

If you price that same trip at $8k, the lower class family cannot go, the middle class family can maybe swing it once every handful of years, and the rich family is still only going every handful of years because they have better places to go.

To argue that the American sectioning of financial class has nothing to do with the discussion is almost laughable (no offense!). Disney’s bread and butter is That middle class segment.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Are you actually trying to argue that America doesn’t have a lower, middle, and upper class?!

If you price a Disney trip at $3k, a lower class family might be able to swing the trip once every handful of years, a middle class family might go once or twice a year, and an upper class family might go once every handful of years because they have better places to go.

If you price that same trip at $8k, the lower class family cannot go, the middle class family can maybe swing it once every handful of years, and the rich family is still only going every handful of years because they have better places to go.

To argue that the American sectioning of financial class has nothing to do with the discussion is almost laughable (no offense!). Disney’s bread and butter is That middle class segment.

I'm saying there's a difference between income level and class. No one would argue that we don't have different income levels in the US, of course. But I don't think we have strongly delineated classes the way that they do in other parts of the world. In other parts of the world the activities a person is expected to enjoy may vary greatly depending on their social status. In the US, for the most part, there is an expectation that we all enjoy doing similar things, and if you can cough up the dosh, you are welcome to participate in any activities on offer from any company.

So I don't think Disney is creating an experience that is exclusive to the preferences and roles of a particular class. It's an experience that can for the most part be enjoyed by anyone (with some exceptions of course) who has the cash. Adjusting price point is a very different thing than adjusting who you are marketing to. Disney is marketed pretty much to everyone.

 

[wutisgood]

Are you actually trying to argue that America doesn’t have a lower, middle, and upper class?!

If you price a Disney trip at $3k, a lower class family might be able to swing the trip once every handful of years, a middle class family might go once or twice a year, and an upper class family might go once every handful of years because they have better places to go.

If you price that same trip at $8k, the lower class family cannot go, the middle class family can maybe swing it once every handful of years, and the rich family is still only going every handful of years because they have better places to go.

To argue that the American sectioning of financial class has nothing to do with the discussion is almost laughable (no offense!). Disney’s bread and butter is That middle class segment.

you put it a lot more easier to understand than I did.

 

[Laketravis]

For the same price as 8 nights at a standard room at moderate resort, 7 days of park tickets for 3 people and the dining plan, we got 2 weeks in an oceanfront presidential suite at a brand new 5 star all-inclusive resort in Cancun for 3 people. That is absolutely ridiculous.

After reading your post, I cancelled our week-long reservations at WDW next month and instead booked a Hyatt all inclusive in Puerta Aventuras for a week, airfare included, for LESS than the WDW trip. And this one includes all you can eat and drink.

I'm gonna save a fortune in Old Fashions alone......

 

[JoeCamel]

After reading your post, I cancelled our week-long reservations at WDW next month and instead booked a Hyatt all inclusive in Puerta Aventuras for a week, airfare included, for LESS than the WDW trip. And this one includes all you can eat and drink.

I'm gonna save a fortune in Old Fashions alone......

Hola

 

[wutisgood]

After reading your post, I cancelled our week-long reservations at WDW next month and instead booked a Hyatt all inclusive in Puerta Aventuras for a week, airfare included, for LESS than the WDW trip. And this one includes all you can eat and drink.

I'm gonna save a fortune in Old Fashions alone......

Were you just used to paying whatever for disney and just unaware of how good some other deals were? Or was this a particular last minute deal? I am deff interested in taking a trip and visiting xcaret. I have heard good things in general from disney and park fans visiting the area.

I am still not sure I am the market given my flights to disney are 100 roud trip or so and I stay in budget hotels that are never scary terrible (I do my research) no prob that offer the most conveneint acess to transit without a car. IT seems like a good choice maybe for a year where the park deals are terrible tho and I don't have any season passes.

 

[Laketravis]

Were you just used to paying whatever for disney and just unaware of how good some other deals were? Or was this a particular last minute deal? I am deff interested in taking a trip and visiting xcaret. I have heard good things in general from disney and park fans visiting the area.

I am still not sure I am the market given my flights to disney are 100 roud trip or so and I stay in budget hotels that are never scary terrible (I do my research) no prob that offer the most conveneint acess to transit without a car. IT seems like a good choice maybe for a year where the park deals are terrible tho and I don't have any season passes.

I've never gotten used to paying for Disney

It's also not the only destination for us. This year alone we've already been to WDW twice but have also been to Vegas, Isla Mujeres, Moab, and New Orleans. We still have a 15 day trip setup in November for WDW and USF but had been thinking about maybe an all-inclusive rather than a cruise and decided to replace our WDW trip next month with something like that. I've been to Puerto Aventura before and really enjoyed it, was fully aware of how good some deals are, and offered this particular week long, all inclusive booking with airfare as proof that WDW no longer offers comparative value.