News FPs cancelled when Hotel room cancelled

[JohnD]

I’m also an AP holder. This has become a common problem exploited by too many AP holders and some wise non pass holders. It isn’t the simple change of plans and needing to cancel. It has become a more nefarious work around for those holding dual resort stays on and offsite. It gives them 60 day access to FP+ at 60 days vs 30 days with no intentions of keeping on site reservations. Then there are some savvy locals that do the same for FP+ on prime days for the parks and cancel those FP at 30 days. I think the straw that broke the back for Disney on top of those mentioned is the Disney ride Challenge groups. Hotel rooms just to do various challenges on a given day. There are also runDisney folks that book campsites for tents and stay elsewhere or at home just for the perks. Disney is also looking into ways to eliminate empty camp sites that remain abandoned obviously because Disney anticipates more revenue than just room/campsite they rightfully look for revenue beyond in tickets, food, merchandise etc. it doesn’t take a lot for Disney to collect the data on rooms cancellation at 30 day mark and break it down further.

I was in the parks on vacation last April when a different type of Challenge was happening with the challenge regulars groups. The MK was opened till midnight. The group organized their challenge to be how many times in 6 hoxurs they could modify FP+ reservations. It basically rendered the system useless for anyone like me just looking for a FP+. They’d grab them and dump them all night long. It was a game challenge for them with total disregard to the average guest.

I so don’t blame Disney for closing the loop hole Another example of how a very small minority of folks that ruin things for so many. Frustrating.

Wow. So wrong. But as has been mentioned previously, they needed to get a handle on this ASAP before the opening of SW:GE. Which means they have been aware of the issue for some time but are finally at the point where they can't wait any longer to deal with it.

 

[EngineerMom]

I have the same issue as folks above. I have booked our fastpasses. I have every intention of staying at the beach club as reserved but need my parents to make their plans on when they are coming and going. So based on that will probably modify our plans by a day or two (meaning our reservation). Will we loose our fast passes for the days we are there if we modify our reservation?

Either at the start or end we will switch and stay at Universal. We used to just go over there for the day but since they offer the front of the line pass if you stay at one of their 3 more expensive hotels we do that. It makes more sense economically than paying for those passes.

Universal makes it clear. Pay and you jump the line.

 

[Trackmaster]

There is no regulation of theme park pricing. I do not know where you got the idea that there is.
Also, where do you come up with the concept of an "unfair 'hidden cost'". First, there is not any expectation that the park is doing everything in their power to minimize lines. This is pure folly. There is no damaged experience, nor is there either a bad faith or good faith.

I basically was saying that its more or less the Wild Wild West out there. But the regulators and courts can and do regulate many businesses out there. If a practice is deemed misleading and unfair to the consumer, its ended. Parks and any business have to be transparent with their pricing within reason. And the regulators determine where that line is. Obviously, as of now they haven't gotten involved yet with the industry's pay to play queuing models.

To be perfectly honest, even the safety regulation is not quite up to the standards that you would think that it is. In Ohio, the amusement park safety standards are overseen by the Department of Agriculture if you can believe that. The department itself has gone on record saying that it shouldn't be responsible for this, and that people who actually have knowledge of the industry and the ride systems should be. Another reason that I say to use skepticism when getting on rides and don't always assume that you can do whatever you want on them to the expense of safety.

 

[EngineerMom]

Clearly you've never worked merge at an attraction where after a parade or show dump people flood your FastPass line with piles of FP's from literally 4-5+ hours prior (because who cares about time windows) plus Guest Assistance Cards. You get so inundated to the point where your FP line is out the door and down the ramp and you have to let in standby 2-3 people at a time while FastPass floods through, still taking an hour plus to clear out the line and meanwhile you're getting verbally and potentially physically threatened by the people in standby. This was not just during busy periods this was literally a daily occurrence.

The old system was broken the minute Disney decided that it was ok to honor FP's as long as the initial time had passed on the ticket. This literally allowed people to hoard tickets throughout the day and blow through a bunch of attractions at once. When FP+ was getting ready to roll out and we had to start enforcing the timeslots, people were furious and I received threats of physical harm on numerous occasions.

So do not sit there on your pedestal and tell me that the old system was better when you were never on the receiving end of its flaws just because you don't like having to be proactive and plan out your day in advance.

Wow
I guess we always followed the times on the paper fastpass tickets. I thought those were supposed to have that 15 min grace period. Never thought to hord them then use them later in the day!!

 

[EngineerMom]

Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin Hotel
Shades of Green on Walt Disney World Resort
B Resort Located in the Walt Disney World Resort
Best Western Lake Buena Vista Resort
DoubleTree Guest Suites in Walt Disney World
Hilton Orlando Buena Vista Palace
Hilton Orlando Lake Buena Vista
Holiday Inn Lake Buena Vista
Wyndham Garden Lake Buena Vista Disney Springs

I actually thought Shades of Green is owed by Disney and is on property. It’s just limited as to who can stay there (military, exmilitary, civilian employees and guests)

I don’t understand why Disney sees it as a good idea to give so many hotels that are not theirs the 60 day window

 

[USofA scott]

I actually thought Shades of Green is owed by Disney and is on property. It’s just limited as to who can stay there (military, exmilitary, civilian employees and guests)

I don’t understand why Disney sees it as a good idea to give so many hotels that are not theirs the 60 day window

Part of it is the occupancy levels at Disney owned resorts. They do not have the capacity to fill all of the requests for rooms. So they are farming them out to other on-property hotels. Remember, due to licensing deals with these hotels, Disney makes money off of them as well. They do not make money if you stay at the Motel 6 on I-drive. It is an additional revenue stream.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I actually thought Shades of Green is owed by Disney and is on property. It’s just limited as to who can stay there (military, exmilitary, civilian employees and guests)

Shades of Green is owned by the Department of Defense. The grounds have even been deannexed from the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

 

[DisneyJoe]

I don’t understand why Disney sees it as a good idea to give so many hotels that are not theirs the 60 day window

The spin given to travel agents when they first announced it was that due to the CBR and CSR construction, that we'd have trouble booking our clients onsite, so they were giving us these Disney Springs resorts with FP+ and EMH benefits to help us....

 

[Gabe1]

Wow. So wrong. But as has been mentioned previously, they needed to get a handle on this ASAP before the opening of SW:GE. Which means they have been aware of the issue for some time but are finally at the point where they can't wait any longer to deal with it.

Yes and well said.

Me I travel down there frequently however I am so not looking forward to StarWars. I anticipate trip alternating nutsville. I still watch in awe the stupidity of FoP lines for the first 2 hours each day. Can’t wrap my brain around what SW will bring to the studios. The walkways are beyond narrow without guests queues exploding into the streets outside SW similar to FoP where lines extend to Pizzafarie nearly every morning

I sit back and wonder how Disney has planned for the launch. Fortunately Disneyland will launch first to give WDW a heads up. The difference here vs any other new lands or attractions that has opened in the past is Star Wars fans are a unique group. Many are not park fans or visitors. They are their own entity. But this land is BIG for yet another demographic. I’m so not looking forward to the influx. Sad cause normally I look forward to any new attraction or land.

 

[Gabe1]

Sorry if I’m not posting in the proper way... It’s been years since I’ve skulked on this site...
I’m a bit worried about our plans for early October now. I have reservations for 10/6-10/13 (5 days ay Poly Villas; 2 days at AK Lodge) and it is possible, but not yet guaranteed, that we will have the ability to come two days earlier. I thought we could spend those nights at Wilderness Lodge, as it’s dh’s Favorite. We won’t know for sure, though, if he can be away work for the 4th and 5th until a few weeks prior. If I book the hotel, and make FP reservations for our whole planned trip at 60 days out from the 4th, will I lose ALL our FPS for the trip if it turns out we can’t get there until the 6th and have to cancel WL in September?
Worried.

Your post is perfect and welcome to the participation side of our Disney family.

The way many of us are guessing at the tentative launch month for StarWars is by the very different free ding and discount room rates for 2019. Traditionally late August thru September and multiple dates in October and random weeks then until Christmas. This year the change is dramatic and many are trying to speculate the launch of SW by ending free ding and room discounts at September 30th. Anything can happen to delay SW but just the dramatic change in free dining 2019 being July thru September is a big hint To when Disney Hopes to launch StarWars. All speculation but not without merit.

 

[Trackmaster]

Part of it is the occupancy levels at Disney owned resorts. They do not have the capacity to fill all of the requests for rooms. So they are farming them out to other on-property hotels. Remember, due to licensing deals with these hotels, Disney makes money off of them as well. They do not make money if you stay at the Motel 6 on I-drive. It is an additional revenue stream.

I was thinking before that hostels could be a good solution for Disney. Might not appeal to American families, but would probably be useful for Millennials without kids or Europeans who are visiting. Disney could give the perks of staying on site at a reduced price in exchange for sleeping in a bunkbed with a lot of other people and really using the room only to sleep and shower. Would cost Disney almost nothing to build the hostel dorms and they'd get extra money from it.

 

[JohnD]

Yes and well said.

Me I travel down there frequently however I am so not looking forward to StarWars. I anticipate trip alternating nutsville. I still watch in awe the stupidity of FoP lines for the first 2 hours each day. Can’t wrap my brain around what SW will bring to the studios. The walkways are beyond narrow without guests queues exploding into the streets outside SW similar to FoP where lines extend to Pizzafarie nearly every morning

I sit back and wonder how Disney has planned for the launch. Fortunately Disneyland will launch first to give WDW a heads up. The difference here vs any other new lands or attractions that has opened in the past is Star Wars fans are a unique group. Many are not park fans or visitors. They are their own entity. But this land is BIG for yet another demographic. I’m so not looking forward to the influx. Sad cause normally I look forward to any new attraction or land.

Yeah. I’m not planning on going this fall. Besides, my office will be moving into a new building by the end of the year. I’ll be all involved in that. Think I’ll wait until 2020 before checking out SW:GE. I have no illusions that crowds will still be huge like on Pandora. I just want to avoid the initial slam, especially with Ep IX opening in December.

 

[celluloid]

I was thinking before that hostels could be a good solution for Disney. Might not appeal to American families, but would probably be useful for Millennials without kids or Europeans who are visiting. Disney could give the perks of staying on site at a reduced price in exchange for sleeping in a bunkbed with a lot of other people and really using the room only to sleep and shower. Would cost Disney almost nothing to build the hostel dorms and they'd get extra money from it.

These days that is just called the College Program/Alumni housing.

 

[Trackmaster]

Yeah. I’m not planning on going this fall. Besides, my office will be moving into a new building by the end of the year. I’ll be all involved in that. Think I’ll wait until 2020 before checking out SW:GE. I have no illusions that crowds will still be huge like on Pandora. I just want to avoid the initial slam.

I think it could be as big or bigger than Pandora. AK didn't really have much in the home run department befo

It's to prop up Disney Springs. W/o the 60 day there's little benefit to staying at the Disney Springs off site hotels, especially with those prices.

And really, if you think about it, if you go on a day that's relatively uncrowded, the extra month will really only get you one big ride a day that you can't. You can pretty much always get a timeslot for anything other than FoP, Slinky, or 7 Dwarfs if its a 5/10 or less at the park if you reserve 30 days out. Then you can reschedule to get the time you need. The real problem is that after the three rides are up, the useful FP+'s will often be picked clean if its crowded enough, and the 60 days won't help with that.

So the 60 days is somewhat useful, but really only helps for getting an extra ride in on the biggest ride there. If the park is completely mobbed, sure it'll guarantee you three good rides, but why go to the park when its that crowded anyway?

 

[nickys]

Honest question here: Not that I would try this. I'm an annual passholder. Let's say I make a WDW resort reservation more than 60 days out. At 60 days, I schedule my FPs. Within 30 days of my trip, I cancel my WDW resort reservations. APs have a rolling 30 days. Would I keep my FPs or would they still be cancelled?

Everybody has a rolling 30 day window if their tickets are flexible. Plus they aren’t going to introduce code that says “is this person, or anyone listed an AP holder? If so, skip cancel FP step”.

Indications are, I think, that if you cancel a reservation and don’t re-book, then your FPs will be cancelled.

They are looking to discourage people from cancelling reservations which become difficult to rebook. So if you cancel, any FPs for a time you do not have a room for will be cancelled. Think of it as a penalty for cancelling rather than a cancellation fee. Ultimately if they can dissuade people from cancelling close to the check-in time (within 60 days), they can resell that room and make far more than a flat $50 per person fee.

However the “leading reservation” loophole remains. I’m sure they will close it eventually, I hope they do. For now they seem to have prioritised the loopholes that cost them money. If I understood correctly, seems some of the unofficial “tour guides” may have been booking rooms and cancelling to get FPs for clients, according to a recent podcast by @lentesta and his team.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Had no idea this was a thing. So, people make a resort reservation, set their fast passes when their window opens, the cancel the room, stay offsite and get to keep their fast passes even thought they are no longer linked to a valid reservation?

Even if they're ACTUALLY staying on site, they book a second dummy reservation to start their FP window ten days earlier. Not sure if the new system will fix that particular loophole.

 

[Trackmaster]

I mean, if you're going on a 6/10 day or less you can get all of the reservations that you want outside of Slinky Dog, Fight of Passage, or Seven Dwarfs already. I'm not sure if its worth tying up my credit card and adding suspicious activity for something like that. Its really just switching out one mediocre reservation for a hard to get one. As a local AP who never stays on site, since I've gotten the hang of the FP+ system, every time that I've actually gone and booked 30 days out, nothing other than those three rides have been blacked out. Even if the time is bad, you can eventually pivot the times around to get them how you like it.

The real frustrating part for the FP+'s are when you burn off the initial three and all that is left are shows, rides you wouldn't ride anyway, or rides that are always dead. If they wanted to give a big giveaway to hotel guests, maybe consider holding back a lot of same day reservations to get guests to want to burn off their FP+'s early to get into the bonus ones more easily. As of now, the park has to be pretty uncrowded to get good same day bonus FP+'s.

 

[DisneyJoe]

Even if they're ACTUALLY staying on site, they book a second dummy reservation to start their FP window ten days earlier. Not sure if the new system will fix that particular loophole.

This really depends on the ticket type, length, and valid use period. The new multi-season tickets released in October make this much more complicated - unless you are just referring to an AP.

 

[Trackmaster]

Even if they're ACTUALLY staying on site, they book a second dummy reservation to start their FP window ten days earlier. Not sure if the new system will fix that particular loophole.

Sounds like the new system will not only fix the loophole, but sting you even harder for cancelling -- you LOSE the reservation, so you would have been better off just waiting for the 30 day period to start in the first place. I mean, once word gets out, people will stop using the loophole, and for people who are legitimately cancelling, it probably means that their plans are being cancelled, and they can't make it to Orlando altogether.

I'm sure if there was a legitimate circumstance that came up (for example, more people were coming than expected and they needed a block of rooms to accommodate everyone or some other circumstance) they could plead their case to a customer service rep and see what happens.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Sounds like the new system will not only fix the loophole, but sting you even harder for cancelling -- you LOSE the reservation, so you would have been better off just waiting for the 30 day period to start in the first place. I mean, once word gets out, people will stop using the loophole, and for people who are legitimately cancelling, it probably means that their plans are being cancelled, and they can't make it to Orlando altogether.

I'm sure if there was a legitimate circumstance that came up (for example, more people were coming than expected and they needed a block of rooms to accommodate everyone or some other circumstance) they could plead their case to a customer service rep and see what happens.

Yeah my concern is that I often hold multiple legitimate reservations at the same time. I hope the system is smart enough to leave my FPs alone for an upcoming trip if I cancel or modify a separate trip that's further out.