Funmeister's Delight
Active Member
Not trolling just stating the facts.
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For the first time, I've finally seen the fabled mythical Brazillian Tour Groups
- Thread starter musketeer
- Start date
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Well, Disneyland Paris wasn't an overnight success (Euro Disney was the punchline of more than a few jokes in the mid-90s), so yes, without having access to hard attendance data, it does sound plausible that it took a few years for Tokyo Disney to find an audience with the Japanese.
Funmeister's Delight
Active Member
Yes but they said Tokyo Disneyland opened in the late 80's. Its just a pet peeve of mine when people change facts to fit their stories.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Gabe probably could have phrased it better, like "In the mid to late 80s, Japanese tour groups were problematic, just like the Brazilian tour groups today, but as Tokyo Disney gained popularity, their disruptive presence in WDW diminished", but generally, it was clear what the gist of his post was. Not everyone does a fact check as they post.
BiffyClyro
Well-Known Member
I'm fine with tour groups as long as they are being nice and not cutting lines etc. I had one incident where some girl started yelling at me and trying to start a fight unprovoked because I asked them to wait for before getting in a an elevator and let people get out first, especially since a disabled person was trying to get out. Just unnecessary.
NormC
Well-Known Member
It's a great big beautiful tomorrow................
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Thank you and yes I could have. Appreciate your effort. Fortunately we are a pretty fair group of members here and don't go down this road with each other often. I normally do not have to proof read to make sure trolls don't find something that can be twisted into a stupid debate of semantics, I knew not to continue that with a brand new member last night, I've seen this type of pattern before.
I did ask the member of the post if he had more to add or just the dates but it became obvious they were just disruptive and knit-picking posts without any substance being added to the conversation. I did not specifically state "Tokyo Disneyland opened in the late 80's." I'm not a fan of stuff or posts like this but others seem to thrive off it.
So this morning I return to see it is continuing. Oy. I can see the rest of the members understood my post and that is all that matters. My gut instinct was correct, Trolling.
They don't market as much down there as they do in the US. The simple fact is going to Disney for a Brazilian is often viewed as a once in a life time thing. Families will scrimp and save to allow their kid to go their on one of those tour groups. Which is a very big deal for them because unlike the US, Brazil's minimum wage is equal to $242/month... and even an upper middle class family would be lucky if they made 5 times that which would be low by US standards. So the fortunate kids that get on those trips know that it is really likely to be the only time they will ever go there. They know that if they are lucky they might be able to send their kids here in the future but are probably not going to be able to afford to come along. So that is why you get the huge groups of kids that always appear to exist without any adult supervision. The groups usually only have the 1 or 2 adults per tour and that tour will often be 50 or more kids.
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
That is an interesting perspective. You seem to know a great deal about the culture down there. While I have appreciation for the wages being different down there, there is great disparages from state to state here too, even city to city and the CPI is very different country to country.* Here too, many citizens are waiting to afford their once in a lifetime WDW trip. Do you have insight into the behavior and lack of decorum for a lack of a better way of putting it? Is this typical down there for groups of people to disrupt other people chanting and making their presence known continuously? Is that the Norm? Do you believe it is their culture that is coming through while vacationing that there is this pattern?
I guess that is what I can't wrap my brain around, they don't seem to be lacking in intelligence by any means, they can clearly see that others are not chanting on rides and theaters or restaurants. I am so curious as to the 'whys' this tradition of acting out with the young and middle aged continues year after year.
*http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Brazil&country2=United States
How dare you! All of us have absolutely 100% perfect memories of everything from 25 years ago. Unforgivable! You should be banished from the boards. And from all Disney property. With your picture posted like some sort of western outlaw.
Oh, by the way, I thought Tokyo Disney was fairly popular from the beginning. Maybe I'm wrong, but I simply didn't have time to check all my Asian facts. I mean since Disneyland opened back in 1963, and WDW's magic Kingdom opening in 1969, and Epcot in 1979, and Studios in 1995, and Animal Kingdom last April, Eurodisney in 1974, Disney See in 1958, and Hong Kong Disney in 2003, it's really hard to keep it all straight. Luckily I never get the facts wrong.
Lucky
Well-Known Member
Brazil's per capita income is as high as you're saying an upper middle class family earns. And income inequality is very high. The top 10% earn 39 times what the bottom 10% earn. There's a lot of poverty, but also a lot of wealth. It's one of the largest countries in the world in population, so there's no shortage of Brazilian families that can afford expensive overseas vacations.
Hot Lava
Well-Known Member
Perhaps the popularity of the Japanese coming to WDW waned when the Japanese economy tanked. Then it might have been too cost prohibitive to come here and better to stay there and go to Tokyo Dis
Yes there is a very wide gap income. I know from being stationed there in a former job for several years ago and having to do market analysis of specific states and cities that you have a sliver of filthy rich folks there and a huge segment that barely gets by.
But the kids that come on those trips are not the kids from the top echelon of families. The wealthy families don't come in groups, they travel as a family much like you or I would when we went somewhere. The tour groups that people on the board are referring to are from much more modest means than you are thinking of.
No they are not typically like that in their own country. But in their culture they do love to party and I can only guess that they reason they behave like that when they are here is really just the fact that they are kids and don't have any adults telling them to cool it. I am guessing if you had groups of American junior high kids with no adult supervision you could end up with the same thing happening. I have rarely seen Brazilian adults acting out when I'm at WDW, but have seen more than a few adult Argentinians that act pretty much like Brazilian kids... It may be that some of the people that make note of bad behaving folks from South America don't know where they are from and just assume they are Brazilians because of the reputation.
LucyK
Well-Known Member
I shy away from these kind of discussions, but @thomas998 has made some really valid points about Brazilian groups at WDW; most of those kids are from middle class and at their first international trip. They are there without their parents and with one or two tour guides that are not older than 25yo, so no parental figure nor authority to keep them from misbehaving, which in turn they do, a lot.
That of course don't excuse rude behavior of the tour agency managers that fail to realize their 60+ people groups are disrupting the experience of other guests and try to cram even more kids into these groups, marketing it so well that people believe the only/right way to visit WDW is with a tour group. I have an acquaintance that runs a tour agency and in his own words he would never let his kids go to Disney with a tour group without him to supervise.
Now, some tour groups do cater to families and I believe those groups don't cause as much trouble as the exclusively teens ones do but size is still a problem and that's why I believe all groups, no matter where they are from, should be limited to no more than 10 individuals each.
I said it once before and I'd like to say it again, don't judge families visiting on their own to be same as tour groups. We actually find them even more irritating than you do because they tint our reputation and make us look bad. It's horrible to start a conversation with a fellow bus mate only to have them look down on you when you tell them where you're from (this happened to me twice last trip, so not cool!).
That of course don't excuse rude behavior of the tour agency managers that fail to realize their 60+ people groups are disrupting the experience of other guests and try to cram even more kids into these groups, marketing it so well that people believe the only/right way to visit WDW is with a tour group. I have an acquaintance that runs a tour agency and in his own words he would never let his kids go to Disney with a tour group without him to supervise.
Now, some tour groups do cater to families and I believe those groups don't cause as much trouble as the exclusively teens ones do but size is still a problem and that's why I believe all groups, no matter where they are from, should be limited to no more than 10 individuals each.
I said it once before and I'd like to say it again, don't judge families visiting on their own to be same as tour groups. We actually find them even more irritating than you do because they tint our reputation and make us look bad. It's horrible to start a conversation with a fellow bus mate only to have them look down on you when you tell them where you're from (this happened to me twice last trip, so not cool!).
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Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Thanks, appreciate the info. And my clue is the language spoken when from S. America. Most guests from Argentina are speaking Spanish, the vast majority of guests from Brazil are not.
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Giggle. That was great! I knew what I was driving at, I knew when Toykyo opened and yep I could have articulated that more clearly. For shame.
Tokyo was popular from the get go, but a day or two visit. The same thing as WDW when it opened (I was there that year) it wasn't not a complete vacation destination. We hit WDW-MK and then moved on to St. Pete for the balance of our vacation, i.e., my Tokyo reference through the 80's. The Asian market continued to come in mass to WDW in the fall for that reason, a complete vacation destination, cheap off season rates. This continued through1980's because there was 2-3 parks at WDW and so much more to do than there was in Tokyo for a week or two vacation.
Funny how things flop, right now, Tokyo has the parks I am most interested in visiting now, I just need to come to terms with the airfare someday.
Gabe1
Ivory Tower Squabble EST 2011. WINDMILL SURVIVOR
Wow! Good stats. I guess their economic classes are not that different than ours.
The degree of poverty, and the lack of good safety nets, makes poverty in Brazil much tougher than here. In my opinion, I would rather be poor here than in Brazil. Not to mention the lack of opportunity for the lower classes. Upward mobility is not only possible, but almost expected in the U.S. In most Latin American countries, poverty closes most doors that we take for granted (schooling, higher education, unemployment insurance, the general absence of a suffocatingly rigid class structure). Yes, being poor is dismal in either country, but I would tend to think that being poor in Brazil would be much more hopeless.
I wouldn't mind the same clothing, or even the flags, but the chanting has got to go!They are very large groups. I wish somehow they could be limited in size.
Any loud tour group kills the ambiance in Fantasyland and Liberty Square and Main Street when the chanting happens. I want to hear my queue music loops! Spoils the theming.