For Reference: Space for a 5th Park at Walt Disney World

[danlb_2000]

Come to think of it, the area across World Dr from DHS is actually a third full-on "suitable," again with the green around it for potential parking. Of course, that'd kinda require the park would be relatively small...but then, no smaller than DHS. A "butterfly," If you will.

Personally I suspect it'd be more likely that it'll be a resort/hotel area, for that reason. Not another water park, of course, since Blizzard Beach is pretty close to the area.

But you never know. Maybe Disney will go "Less is more, since it works for DHS."View attachment 719175View attachment 719176

The lower red area across from DHS has already been used for a new drainage pond. The upper area has been partially used for a fireworks launch area.

 

[danlb_2000]

Iger is already on record about a $17 billion investment involving WDW, regarding a 10 year plan. (Disney's also on record that this has not changed with the axing of the Orlando Imagineer office building, in case you're wondering.)

Part of the investment involves the expansion in the back portion of Magic Kingdom, of course. But that's hardly the be-all end-all of $17 billion. It's certainly not 10 years in the making.

Doing the math, the odds are ever in our favor for a 5th Gate. Never say never.

A 5th gate would eat up a big portion of the $17 billion.

 

[BlakeW39]

A fifth gate would be detrimental to WDW. Disney can't even manage the parks they have. I want to see EPCOT, DAK, MK, and DHS all live up to their full potential (and they are a long way from doing so) before we see a fifth park. A fifth park is unlikely to happen anyways though and if it did, I have no idea what current management would allow to be built. Disney's Magic Kingdom 2? Disney's Movie Adventure lol? No thanks

 

[Eric M Blake]

The lower red area across from DHS has already been used for a new drainage pond. The upper area has been partially used for a fireworks launch area.

True enough, but be that as it may, only the upper portion is "needed" for a butterfly with DHS. Again, the green to the left of it can easily be used for the parking lot, as again that's been done before.

As for the fireworks, fair enough, but keep in mind DHS still has a "back" area that's empty, so the other park can still have that fireworks area too.

Again, it would require a LOT of finesse, which does emphasize that the area between MK and Ft Wilderness is the ideal spot for the 5th Gate. Still, the "butterfly" with DHS can be done with a similarly "smaller" park.

 

[Eric M Blake]

A 5th gate would eat up a big portion of the $17 billion.

Naturally. But the way the execs have been talking, that seems to be where they're going.

 

[Eric M Blake]

A fifth gate would be detrimental to WDW. Disney can't even manage the parks they have. I want to see EPCOT, DAK, MK, and DHS all live up to their full potential (and they are a long way from doing so) before we see a fifth park. A fifth park is unlikely to happen anyways though and if it did, I have no idea what current management would allow to be built. Disney's Magic Kingdom 2? Disney's Movie Adventure lol? No thanks

The irony is, until fairly recently that wasn't an issue--Disney prided itself on higher/stricter safety and quality standards than, say, state inspectors would have. But nowadays that's not so much the case--with, alas, makes the Guv'ner kinda look like the hero when he talks about imposing safety inspections.

Regardless, the managing issues are a recent 180, largely due to Chapek's rank incompetence. Iger's reputation is on the line with whether or not he can clean it all up...and he knows it. That's why I feel confident he will work tooth and nail to do so.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Naturally. But the way the execs have been talking, that seems to be where they're going.

It’s not.

 

[Eric M Blake]

It’s not.

You say that with confidence.

In that case, I must ask where you believe that $17 billion is going. Surely it's not all going to the back empty portion of MK, though the reports do say they are planning on that expansion.

So where is ALL that remaining money going?

 

[Eric M Blake]

Now, to the question of what the 5th Gate would BE...well, by process of elimination it PROBABLY can't be Star Wars (see: Galaxy's Edge).

A Marvel theme would be tempting, except for the Guardians ride already in Epcot--and frankly the usually shut down Life/Body pavilion could similarly be reinvigorated with a Marvel theme by, say, having Dr Reed Richards as the in-universe overseer of the "lab" (as marketing for Fantastic Four etc)...PLUS the "empty" area of DHS around Rock N Roller Coaster can be used for a potential Avengers Campus. So that's out of the way....

So, I look back at all the "lost" park ideas over the years, via the AllEars video on the subject...and lo and behold, I see "Beastly Kingdom," the old axed idea for the part of Animal Kingdom that's now Pandora. The way the AllEars folks described it, it's no SECTION of a park--it's a whole park!

 

[Goofyernmost]

You say that with confidence.

In that case, I must ask where you believe that $17 billion is going. Surely it's not all going to the back empty portion of MK, though the reports do say they are planning on that expansion.

So where is ALL that remaining money going?

That's pretty close to the 10 year operating budget for WDW. One attraction alone would use most of the up, and like I said, that number was over the next decade or 10 year time period. That number was just thrown out there to emphasize just how much Disney spends in the area even if they change nothing.

 

[Eric M Blake]

That's pretty close to the 10 year operating budget for WDW. One attraction alone would use most of the up, and like I said, that number was over the next decade or 10 year time period. That number was just thrown out there to emphasize just how much Disney spends in the area even if they change nothing.

Considering all the talk about the additional rides (the ride for the UK pavilion in Epcot), park expansions (MK) and revisions (AK Dinoland) as it is, it's VERY doubtful the $17 billion is just the "as is" budget.

Plus, keep in mind in the same report, they also said the 10 year plan also included a significant expansion of the WDW workforce. Somehow I doubt that'd be in the cards if we were just talking about one attraction.

 

[Eric M Blake]

(Incidentally, I'd like to challenge those who react to my posts with expressions of anger to argue what is so maddening about what I'm saying.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, the entire point of this thread in the first place is to speculate based on "What IF they're actually going forward with a 5th Gate? Where would it be, and what would it look like?")

 

[Eric M Blake]

Just for some perspective:

Tokyo DisneySea cost 335 billion yen in 2001.

121.57 yen per dollar was the average rate in 2001, but it was 107.3 in 2000 and 113.73 in 1999. 114.2 is the average.

Using that average, 334 billion yen would be $2.92 billion in let's call it 2000. That's about $5.05 billion today.

Epcot's $1.4 billion in 1982 is around $4.32 billion today.

(I don't think a fifth park would cost quite so much as the guessed $10 billion.)

THIS must be kept into perspective, when looking at the $17 billion number.

Let's be generous and assume $7 billion for the 5th Gate.

Now, how much could we expect the MK expansion (or fill-up, since it'd be the "empty" woodland between Fantasyland and the railroad track) to cost?

Then the replacement of AK's Dinoland USA, allegedly to a Zootopia theme. (Considering how the Dinosaur ride is kinda off in its own spot, in theory you COULD keep it, but...I doubt that'll happen, sadly. Regardless, the rest of Dinoland is pretty much dead, certainly ever since the little roller coaster was torn down.)

Let's be generous again, and say $4 billion for those two expansions/renovations together. That's $11 billion, so far.

What's left so far is the Mary Poppins ride for Epcot's UK, and...

 

[Goofyernmost]

(Incidentally, I'd like to challenge those who react to my posts with expressions of anger to argue what is so maddening about what I'm saying.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, the entire point of this thread in the first place is to speculate based on "What IF they're actually going forward with a 5th Gate? Where would it be, and what would it look like?")

Well, the actuality of this thread is that the OP has stated that the entire point of this thread was just for reference. Whatever that means. No reply or speculation was requested or wanted, so you are incorrect on it's purpose.

They might have included some numbers from current projects in the 17 Billion number, but certainly not enough to build another gate.

They can increase the amount of people needed just putting staffing back where it should be, adding more park hours or many other possibilities which changes nothing except the quality of the experience.

No one is angry, just puzzled about how you are arriving at your conclusions. They have said a lot of things over the last a few months that are mostly just posturing. Everything, including what is happening in Florida has become a gigantic argument over who has the most power in Florida over the long run and the answer is obvious to most of us.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Considering all the talk about the additional rides (the ride for the UK pavilion in Epcot), park expansions (MK) and revisions (AK Dinoland) as it is, it's VERY doubtful the $17 billion is just the "as is" budget.

Plus, keep in mind in the same report, they also said the 10 year plan also included a significant expansion of the WDW workforce. Somehow I doubt that'd be in the cards if we were just talking about one attraction.

There’s a whole thread on the $17 billion comment. It’s not what you are portraying even with the additional staff.

 

[Eric M Blake]

They might have included some numbers from current projects in the 17 Billion number, but certainly not enough to build another gate.

I assume, then, that you have not seen the post in question:

Just for some perspective:

Tokyo DisneySea cost 335 billion yen in 2001.

121.57 yen per dollar was the average rate in 2001, but it was 107.3 in 2000 and 113.73 in 1999. 114.2 is the average.

Using that average, 334 billion yen would be $2.92 billion in let's call it 2000. That's about $5.05 billion today.

Epcot's $1.4 billion in 1982 is around $4.32 billion today.

(I don't think a fifth park would cost quite so much as the guessed $10 billion.)

I do not understand how $17 billion could not be enough to build another gate when, as pointed out here, Epcot cost $4.32 billion when adjusted for inflation.

 

[danlb_2000]

Now, to the question of what the 5th Gate would BE...well, by process of elimination it PROBABLY can't be Star Wars (see: Galaxy's Edge).

A Marvel theme would be tempting, except for the Guardians ride already in Epcot--and frankly the usually shut down Life/Body pavilion could similarly be reinvigorated with a Marvel theme by, say, having Dr Reed Richards as the in-universe overseer of the "lab" (as marketing for Fantastic Four etc)...PLUS the "empty" area of DHS around Rock N Roller Coaster can be used for a potential Avengers Campus. So that's out of the way....

So, I look back at all the "lost" park ideas over the years, via the AllEars video on the subject...and lo and behold, I see "Beastly Kingdom," the old axed idea for the part of Animal Kingdom that's now Pandora. The way the AllEars folks described it, it's no SECTION of a park--it's a whole park!

They can't use Avengers or Fantastic Four due to the Universal contract.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I assume, then, that you have not seen the post in question:

I do not understand how $17 billion could not be enough to build another gate when, as pointed out here, Epcot cost $4.32 billion when adjusted for inflation.

Simple, costs of escalated. Disney spent more on Pixar Pier than they did on Expedition Everest, even when adjusting for inflation. Shanghai Disneyland and Universal Studios Beijing both cost over a billion more than your number for EPCOT Center and that was in a market with cheaper materials and labor. Epic Universe will likely take the crown from Universal Studios Beijing as world’s most expensive theme park and clock in at over $6 billion.

 

[Eric M Blake]

They can't use Avengers or Fantastic Four due to the Universal contract.

Fair enough, but I find that interesting considering how California Adventure has Avengers Campus.

 

[Eric M Blake]

Simple, costs of escalated. Disney spent more on Pixar Pier than they did on Expedition Everest, even when adjusting for inflation. Shanghai Disneyland and Universal Studios Beijing both cost over a billion more than your number for EPCOT Center and that was in a market with cheaper materials and labor. Epic Universe will likely take the crown from Universal Studios Beijing as world’s most expensive theme park and clock in at over $6 billion.

Fair enough, however...I already accounted for that: I said further up in this page, let's estimate $7 billion for the 5th Gate. That would allow for more than the record amount for Epic Universe.