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For Reference: Space for a 5th Park at Walt Disney World

Haymarket

Active Member
Original Poster
Just for my own and maybe others' reference and possible future use in threads, I wanted to post here where there may be space for a 5th theme park ("5th gate") at Walt Disney World.

I am not claiming that there will be a fifth park in the future: it's just that I've seen arguments in threads about whether there's space, and this is my take as to where there's space.

Corrections are welcome, but I'm not arguing/going to argue about whether or not there will and/or should actually be a fifth park/gate.

1. This is the "Composite Suitability Ratings" map from the "Reedy Creek Improvement District Comprehensive Plan - 2020" (November 2009). The blue arrow points to the section that I'll address further below:

Disney World Suitable Land copy.png

2. Here is the plot's location (crudely outlined in blue) and size relative to the Magic Kingdom (in the red rectangle), excluding the Magic Kingdom's parking lot:

Walt-Disney-World®-Resort-Google-Maps.jpeg


3. Here is the plot's location and size relative to EPCOT and Disney's Hollywood Studios, crudely outlined in green and yellow respectively, excluding their parking lots:

The-Campsites-at-Disney-s-Fort-Wilderness-Resort-Google-Maps copy.jpeg


4. As to where there might be parking space, I believe the plot crudely outlined in magenta below could serve as parking, if there's not enough room in the main plot (again, crudely outlined in blue). Outlined in cyan in the last image shows that the smaller plot is also suitable for development, at least according to the November 2009 "Composite Suitability Ratings" map:

Close up for parking.jpeg
Maps-of-the-Reedy-Creek-2010-2020-Plan-WDWMAGIC-Unofficial-Walt-Disney-World-discussion-forums.jpeg
 
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Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Interesting, but there really has never been a question about if they had a place for one, it was about should they have one when they can't even maintain what they have properly. Heck, even the areas in green are doable if they really want to. They draw the map and can adjust it in whatever way works for them. It's just really not advisable or even being considered at this time as far as we know.
 

Haymarket

Active Member
Original Poster
Interesting, but there really has never been a question about if they had a place for one, it was about should they have one when they can't even maintain what they have properly. Heck, even the areas in green are doable if they really want to. They draw the map and can adjust it in whatever way works for them. It's just really not advisable or even being considered at this time as far as we know.
I saw what seemed to be rather nasty exchanges in a few threads regarding whether there's enough space. It was so annoying that I wanted to clarify the matter definitively for myself, with the added benefit of creating a reference with data arguably proving the point that in theory there is presently space for a fifth park.

I went with the red "Suitable" land to stay within the most conservative range of possible locations. Factoring in the light green "Marginally Suitable" areas by telling myself that "they could even build there; it's really all pretty flexible given their powers, resources and modern engineering" arguably gives too much wiggle room for the sake of the argument's strength. I wanted to show that even limiting the possible locations to only lands deemed "Suitable," there is space for a fifth park.

This has nothing to do in any direct manner whether they should, might, or will build a new park. I'm agnostic as to the matter, at least in the forums; I have no interest in the debate.

I do, however enjoy reasonably informed speculation elsewhere as to possible new parks with regard to themes and locations around the globe—speculation that ignores the issue of whether it's possible, advisable, etc. in light of the needs of existing parks (though invariably someone brings that up; it's like they're incapable of putting the matter of "there's so much work to do on the parks that already exist" aside for the sake of a flight of imagination).

And yes, I'm aware that seemingly almost all fans say there's no need for a fifth park, nor is it advisable, etc. because they already have parks in dire need of concerted repair, improvement, etc. Everyone here knows that's the conventional dogma and/or "common sense" and I will never challenge it here.
 
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Haymarket

Active Member
Original Poster
The 2020 Comprehensive Plan straight up acknowledges the ability to support two more major theme parks. Page 2A-13 has a site plan showing future land use areas, and the plot you identify is identified as Mixed Use which is one of the two land use categories that allows for a major theme park.

Do you know where in the document they say two more major theme parks?

I see where they say "There are also several undeveloped sites within the District that are large enough for an entirely new theme park." on page 2B-23, but someone could argue they're talking about minor theme parks. I can't find where they say two major theme parks specifically. I just want it for reference.

As an aside, I find it interesting that they count the ESPN Wide World of Sports complex as a minor theme park, one of three minor theme parks (7B-2). They call it Disney's Wide World of Sports in the report, but they changed the name to ESPN in 2010 apparently.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
They have room for parks…but they don’t have the desire to build one. The best that is reasonable is they can outfit the four to a better level.
 

Haymarket

Active Member
Original Poster
…but they don’t have the desire to build one. The best that is reasonable is they can outfit the four to a better level.
Yes, I extensively addressed this above. We're all aware of this assessment, and almost everyone agrees with it. We can all be secure that it is the accepted conventional wisdom/widely shared common sense/firmly established dogma. No one will likely dispute it here. Thanks.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Yes, I extensively addressed this above. We're all aware of this assessment, and almost everyone agrees with it. We can all be secure that it is the accepted conventional wisdom/widely shared common sense/firmly established dogma. No one will likely dispute it here. Thanks.
So you’re asking for geological purposes? Cause I dig that too…
 

Haymarket

Active Member
Original Poster
So you’re asking for geological purposes? Cause I dig that too…

No, I wasn't "asking" anything. The purpose of my original post is to serve as a reference for myself, in that the first post arguably, in its way, clearly shows that there is space.

It is a reference largely for clarification and personal use. I wasn't asking anything or inviting discussion. Thanks.

Just for my own and maybe others' reference and possible future use in threads, I wanted to post here where there may be space for a 5th theme park ("5th gate") at Walt Disney World.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
No, I wasn't "asking" anything. The purpose of my original post is to serve as a reference for myself, in that the first post arguably, in its way, clearly shows that there is space.

It is a reference largely for clarification and personal use. I wasn't asking anything or inviting discussion. Thanks.
Ok, then why post on a discussion board if you don't want any discussion? You, by your own admission, have already concluded that they "have the room to build another" so what is the purpose of the post at all. You already know the answer, all of us know the answer to that question. So why is it being asked. If you want to know what type of park we could imagine would be built in those areas than simply title a thread "If they built a 5th park, what theme would you like to see". That seems, from what I have read, to be what you want to know so ask that question although it has been hashed over many times in the past, it has been awhile since the last one. Just make sure you make a disclaimer that most people do not think it wise or feasible that they will build another park, but if they did what would you like to see in it?
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Do you know where in the document they say two more major theme parks?

I see where they say "There are also several undeveloped sites within the District that are large enough for an entirely new theme park." on page 2B-23, but someone could argue they're talking about minor theme parks. I can't find where they say two major theme parks specifically. I just want it for reference.

As an aside, I find it interesting that they count the ESPN Wide World of Sports complex as a minor theme park, one of three minor theme parks (7B-2). They call it Disney's Wide World of Sports in the report, but they changed the name to ESPN in 2010 apparently.

Page 31 (2A-11), although I think it is a total of one Major and two Minor parks. On all of the lines the 10 year increment is the total of the two five year increments.

1670072070456.png

Do you know where in the document they say two more major theme parks?

I see where they say "There are also several undeveloped sites within the District that are large enough for an entirely new theme park." on page 2B-23, but someone could argue they're talking about minor theme parks. I can't find where they say two major theme parks specifically. I just want it for reference.

As an aside, I find it interesting that they count the ESPN Wide World of Sports complex as a minor theme park, one of three minor theme parks (7B-2). They call it Disney's Wide World of Sports in the report, but they changed the name to ESPN in 2010 apparently.
 

ohioguy

Well-Known Member
Just for my own and maybe others' reference and possible future use in threads, I wanted to post here where there may be space for a 5th theme park ("5th gate") at Walt Disney World.

I am not claiming that there will be a fifth park in the future: it's just that I've seen arguments in threads about whether there's space, and this is my take as to where there's space.

Corrections are welcome, but I'm not arguing/going to argue about whether or not there will and/or should actually be a fifth park/gate.

1. This is the "Composite Suitability Ratings" map from the "Reedy Creek Improvement District Comprehensive Plan - 2020" (November 2009). The blue arrow points to the section that I'll address further below:

View attachment 682465
2. Here is the plot's location (crudely outlined in blue) and size relative to the Magic Kingdom (in the red rectangle), excluding the Magic Kingdom's parking lot:

View attachment 682466

3. Here is the plot's location and size relative to EPCOT and Disney's Hollywood Studios, crudely outlined in green and yellow respectively, excluding their parking lots:

View attachment 682467

4. As to where there might be parking space, I believe the plot crudely outlined in magenta below could serve as parking, if there's not enough room in the main plot (again, crudely outlined in blue). Outlined in cyan in the last image shows that the smaller plot is also suitable for development, at least according to the November 2009 "Composite Suitability Ratings" map:

View attachment 682469View attachment 682470

Thanks for the research and doing the hard work.

Unlike others, I do think they will eventually do a 5th park. It won't happen soon, but maybe in 20 years. Ultimately, the need for more capacity and the threat of competition will drive the decision. The hands of time always bend towards progress. Right now, it does look like they are seriously considering expanding their other parks so it will be a long wait.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
No kidding. They can't get along with the politicians in Florida - they sure as hell aren't going to put themselves in a position where they have to play ball with the Texas governor's office. But it should happen; it's what the parks division needs.
Not from a financial standpoint…
Why spend the massive overhead costs when people can fairly easily go to Florida or California?

That’s the deal. It’s the dilution of a pool of customers you don’t have to really entice already.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Thanks for the research and doing the hard work.

Unlike others, I do think they will eventually do a 5th park. It won't happen soon, but maybe in 20 years. Ultimately, the need for more capacity and the threat of competition will drive the decision. The hands of time always bend towards progress. Right now, it does look like they are seriously considering expanding their other parks so it will be a long wait.
The pool of customers is not growing to service more parks.

Everyone assumes it is…it’s just wrong.
 

Haymarket

Active Member
Original Poster
Ok, then why post on a discussion board if you don't want any discussion? You, by your own admission, have already concluded that they "have the room to build another" so what is the purpose of the post at all. You already know the answer, all of us know the answer to that question. So why is it being asked. If you want to know what type of park we could imagine would be built in those areas than simply title a thread "If they built a 5th park, what theme would you like to see". That seems, from what I have read, to be what you want to know so ask that question although it has been hashed over many times in the past, it has been awhile since the last one. Just make sure you make a disclaimer that most people do not think it wise or feasible that they will build another park, but if they did what would you like to see in it?
Do you know what the purpose of a "reference" is? Perhaps you need to read more carefully. I'll be ignoring you moving forward; it's proving a waste of time to read your posts. Goodbye.
 

Raxel7851

Well-Known Member
Do you know what the purpose of a "reference" is? Perhaps you need to read more carefully. I'll be ignoring you moving forward; it's proving a waste of time to read your posts. Goodbye.
Your original post was very well thought out. I hope it continues to stimulate constructive and respectful conversations. Some just don’t get it!
 

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