For Reference: Space for a 5th Park at Walt Disney World

[danlb_2000]

Has anything been developed or put into areas that were once labeled "Marginally Suitable"?

The area in the middle of the Magic Kingdom parking lot which is being re-developed for more parking.

This unsuitable land became the expansion of the DHS parking lot and the new entrance road goes through the unsuitable are to the right which was released from the conservation land a while back.

 

[Hugh Jazz]

Just for my own reference, I need to change my furnace filters on February 15th, 2023.

 

[Weather_Lady]

I don't think they need a 5th park, so much as they need to "flesh out" three of the four parks they already have. Finish the current projects in EPCOT so it's not dominated by active, unsightly construction zones. Add a new land each to Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios (with at least 2-3 attractions apiece), to make them true, full-day parks, and relieve the overcrowding at each of their small handful of headline attractions.

 

[Weather_Lady]

The pool of customers is not growing to service more parks.

Everyone assumes it is…it’s just wrong.

I think very few people (outside of forums like this) understand that the crowding and longer wait times they've been seeing at WDW since COVID are not the result of increased demand/attendance, but rather, are the result of WDW running everything -- attractions, shows, restaurants -- at significantly lower capacity, with razor-thin staffing levels. Instead, people see crowded walkways and long lines and assume it's because there are more people in the parks. It's an easy mistake, but it does lead to bad assumptions.

 

[DonniePeverley]

A new park should have been built years ago.

Build it and they will come.

Brazil will soon be on it's feet and you'll get a large contingent of the south Americans back. Europe will pick back up and the British will return on mass.

The fact they haven't done this is utterly shameful for a product that never lets Disney down. But hey let's invest in a movie and the associated risks with a box office failure.

All we can hope is that Epic universe really eats into Disney.

 

[wdwmagic]

A new park should have been built years ago.

Build it and they will come.

Brazil will soon be on it's feet and you'll get a large contingent of the south Americans back. Europe will pick back up and the British will return on mass.

The fact they haven't done this is utterly shameful for a product that never lets Disney down. But hey let's invest in a movie and the associated risks with a box office failure.

There is little chance of a 5th park. Labor is just not there to support it. It wasn't viable years ago, and certainly isn't viable now.

 

[DonniePeverley]

There is little chance of a 5th park. Labor is just not there to support it. It wasn't viable years ago, and certainly isn't viable now.

There is plenty of large construction projects going on around the US at the moment. Even down the road at Universal.

 

[wdwmagic]

There is plenty of large construction projects going on around the US at the moment. Even down the road at Universal.

Yes they are, and they are going to have a labor problem. Universal are going to tackle that, Disney don't want to.

Remember we are at a point where they can't operate restaurants, busses, and parking trams at full capacity because they have no labor at a price there want to pay. Do you think they are going to be able to operate an entire new park?

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I think very few people (outside of forums like this) understand that the crowding and longer wait times they've been seeing at WDW since COVID are not the result of increased demand/attendance, but rather, are the result of WDW running everything -- attractions, shows, restaurants -- at significantly lower capacity, with razor-thin staffing levels. Instead, people see crowded walkways and long lines and assume it's because there are more people in the parks. It's an easy mistake, but it does lead to bad assumptions.

To be fair, part of the problem for this misperception is that Disney management has flat out lied to the public and said that the problem is overcrowding because people are willing to pay whatever they charge for admission. Management never seems to remember to mention that they are short-staffing, keeping restaurants closed, and running shorter hours at the parks.

 

[DonniePeverley]

Yes they are, and they are going to have a labor problem. Universal are going to tackle that, Disney don't want to.

Remember we are at a point where they can't operate restaurants, busses, and parking trams at full capacity because they have no labor at a price there want to pay. Do you think they are going to be able to operate an entire new park?

Whilst this is a worldwide problem, Disney did not help themselves by the short sightedness of laying off some 28,000 theme park workers. They obviously knew one day they would have to open up. That was an awful decision. Many large companies kept employers on a 'furlough scheme' for this exact reason. The time to hire and retrain workers was always going to take time, hence why it was short sightedness to lay of the workers. Disney were then slow to open back up in Orlando, when Universal had opened up considerably earlier when given then go ahead.

Odd decisions indeed.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Whilst this is a worldwide problem, Disney did not help themselves by the short sightedness of laying off some 28,000 theme park workers. They obviously knew one day they would have to open up. That was an awful decision. Many large companies kept employers on a 'furlough scheme' for this exact reason. The time to hire and retrain workers was always going to take time, hence why it was short sightedness to lay of the workers. Disney were then slow to open back up in Orlando, when Universal had opened up considerably earlier when given then go ahead.

Odd decisions indeed.

It's not a matter of short sightedness, it is a matter of survival. Even Disney cannot afford to pay 28,000 people for what could have been or for even what it turned out to be that long a time. They had no previous situation like this in the past and probably figured that everyone was not hiring because of the Pandemic and would be there to come back when they reopened.

Can anyone do the math and figure out what just one week of salary for that many people would be when at the same time they had almost zero income for the parks. It's the willingness to be aware that things changed during that time and people were not as willing to rush to work for the mouse because the have been unwilling to offer them a reason to work there other than the status of working for a mouse. That's not shortsightedness as much as it is unwillingness to realize reality. However, I guess a company that spends it's existence producing fantasy would have that problem. That is why the BoD is willing to pay the CEO millions. They are supposed to be the ones that readily recognise that and take action to fix it, so far all that is heard is the chirping of Jiminy Cricket.

 

[Walter Elias Disney]

Reedy Creek Improvement District Comprehensive Plan 2020 Supporting Data and Analysis
Supporting Data and Analysis
FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT
2B-19
Location of Suitable Land
During the next 10 years, the District’s development will be directed to those areas identified as suitable in the above analysis. The largest areas of suitable land are located west of Animal Kingdom, between World Drive and I-4 between Osceola Parkway and US 192, around Lake Mable, north of the Magnolia Golf Course, east of the Magic Kingdom parking lot, and west of Disney’s Hollywood Studios. Other areas identified as suitable are scattered throughout the District on sites of less than 100 acres. Figure 2-6, later in this chapter, shows the location of suitable land based on land use designation.

FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT
2B-25
FUTURE LAND USE PLAN
CONCEPT
This part of the document was interesting...

Supporting Data and Analysis
FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT
2B-29
Entertainment – The Entertainment category delineates the four primary theme parks in the District: the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Disney’s Hollywood Studios, and Disney’s Animal Kingdom; and the smaller-scale parks or entertainment areas, namely Typhoon Lagoon, Disney Speedway, Blizzard Beach, and ESPN Wide World of Sports. The category also includes planned expansion areas for these parks. The principal uses are amusement and thrill rides, performance areas, shops and restaurants, educational and cultural displays, sports fields and venues, and television and motion picture production.
Although nearly all of this acreage with this designation is already developed many areas have the potential for additional construction through infill. For instance, large surface parking lots at the theme parks could potentially be reconfigured or replaced with structured parking to create additional development capacity.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Reedy Creek Improvement District Comprehensive Plan 2020 Supporting Data and Analysis
Supporting Data and Analysis
FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT
2B-19
Location of Suitable Land
During the next 10 years, the District’s development will be directed to those areas identified as suitable in the above analysis. The largest areas of suitable land are located west of Animal Kingdom, between World Drive and I-4 between Osceola Parkway and US 192, around Lake Mable, north of the Magnolia Golf Course, east of the Magic Kingdom parking lot, and west of Disney’s Hollywood Studios. Other areas identified as suitable are scattered throughout the District on sites of less than 100 acres. Figure 2-6, later in this chapter, shows the location of suitable land based on land use designation.

FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT
2B-25
FUTURE LAND USE PLAN
CONCEPT
This part of the document was interesting...

Supporting Data and Analysis
FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT
2B-29
Entertainment – The Entertainment category delineates the four primary theme parks in the District: the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Disney’s Hollywood Studios, and Disney’s Animal Kingdom; and the smaller-scale parks or entertainment areas, namely Typhoon Lagoon, Disney Speedway, Blizzard Beach, and ESPN Wide World of Sports. The category also includes planned expansion areas for these parks. The principal uses are amusement and thrill rides, performance areas, shops and restaurants, educational and cultural displays, sports fields and venues, and television and motion picture production.
Although nearly all of this acreage with this designation is already developed many areas have the potential for additional construction through infill. For instance, large surface parking lots at the theme parks could potentially be reconfigured or replaced with structured parking to create additional development capacity.

Supporting Data and Analysis
FUTURE LAND USE ELEMENT
2B-12
Theme Park Visitor Population
TEA/ERA estimated attendance at the four major theme parks during 2008 as follows: Magic Kingdom – 17,063,000 or about 46,750 per average day; Epcot – 10,935,000 or about 30,000 per average day, Disney’s Hollywood Studios – 9,608,000 or about 26,300 per average day, and Disney’s Animal Kingdom – 9,540,000 or about 26,000 per average day. TEA/ERA also provided estimates for the water parks during 2008 of 2,059,000 or 6,150 per average day for Typhoon Lagoon and 1,891,000 or 5,650 per average day for Blizzard Beach. These estimates are for flat to a one prevent decline in attendance. The Disney Company reported a three percent decline in overall theme park attendance in Florida for its 2009 fiscal year. Theme park attendance is projected to lag a bit behind the economic recovery.
14 years later...I'm wondering what the attendance numbers look like now.

News - 2021 Theme Index

The 2021 TEA/AECOM Theme Index is now available. https://www.teaconnect.org/tea-theme--museum-index.html

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[danlb_2000]

It's not a matter of short sightedness, it is a matter of survival. Even Disney cannot afford to pay 28,000 people for what could have been or for even what it turned out to be that long a time. They had no previous situation like this in the past and probably figured that everyone was not hiring because of the Pandemic and would be there to come back when they reopened.

Can anyone do the math and figure out what just one week of salary for that many people would be when at the same time they had almost zero income for the parks. It's the willingness to be aware that things changed during that time and people were not as willing to rush to work for the mouse because the have been unwilling to offer them a reason to work there other than the status of working for a mouse. That's not shortsightedness as much as it is unwillingness to realize reality. However, I guess a company that spends it's existence producing fantasy would have that problem. That is why the BoD is willing to pay the CEO millions. They are supposed to be the ones that readily recognise that and take action to fix it, so far all that is heard is the chirping of Jiminy Cricket.

This article from March of 2020 estimated that Disney spend $3.6 million a day on Disney World salaries at that time.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2020/03/18/coronavirus-a-glimpse-at-the-cost-to-disney.html#:~:text=Disney%20spent%20more%20than%20%244.58,Walt%20Disney%20World's%20current%20workforce.

 

[pdude81]

Pointing this out, prior to 2020 Disney was buying more land around the resort, to the tune of 1000-2000 acres, to expand its buffer. There’s no reason to believe they will stop buying land in the future, some of which could open up new development opportunities.

What gives me pause is that big mixed development they are building almost on top of Animal Kingdom lodge.

 

[pdude81]

It seems to me that if they wanted to create a fifth gate, they'd level WWOS and build it there. I don't see anything else on these maps big enough for a "major" theme park.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It seems to me that if they wanted to create a fifth gate, they'd level WWOS and build it there. I don't see anything else on these maps big enough for a "major" theme park.

Too close to 192. That would make Disneyland seem like it was in the wilderness. If they wanted a 5th gate they have all kinds of space to put one. They don't want one.

 

[pdude81]

Too close to 192. That would make Disneyland seem like it was in the wilderness. If they wanted a 5th gate they have all kinds of space to put one. They don't want one.

Where else on the suitability map do you think they could do that? The next largest "suitable" space on their map was earmarked for a resort per Martin.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

What gives me pause is that big mixed development they are building almost on top of Animal Kingdom lodge.

That’s Disney’s fault for not spending whatever it took to acquire it. God forbid Studios or DTC foot their own bills.

 

[Kamikaze]

I saw what seemed to be rather nasty exchanges in a few threads regarding whether there's enough space.

Please link these posts.