FLE vs. Cars Land...

[tomes1225]

But they'd have to spend money to make that money. And TDO would need to spend big, BIG money. The Radiator Springs Racers ride alone has been pegged at $350 Million, and Cars Land as a whole with all the other Cars themed shops/restaurants/rides is well past the Half Billion dollar mark.

That's the type of money they'd spend on a good chunk of a fifth theme park, if the fifth park ever arrives. Unless attendance at DHS really starts to decline for several years, I can't imagine that TDO would shell out even the smaller figure of 350 Million for Radiator Springs Racers, much less the whole Cars Land package.

I have a hunch the bump in attendance that Star Tours 2.0 will give DHS will be enough for TDO to put DHS back on auto-pilot for at least a few years, with maybe the Monsters Inc. indoor coaster coming along later in this decade as the next major new ride for DHS.

Well, if RSR was brought to DHS they would not have to put up the cost for reasearch and development, plus much of the rockwork would not be needed as a studio looking building would fit well in DHS, drastically reducing the pricetag.

 

[TP2000]

Well, if RSR was brought to DHS they would not have to put up the cost for reasearch and development, plus much of the rockwork would not be needed as a studio looking building would fit well in DHS, drastically reducing the pricetag.

And also drastically reducing the atmosphere and point to the whole thing.

Have you seen the pictures of Cars Land rockwork and the Cadillac Range? Pictures are impressive, but don't do it justice for how massive and impressive it all is in real life, even only barely half done. Cars Land's rockwork is a new Disney mountain icon in the making, to rival the Matterhorn or Space Mountain. If you just put Radiator Springs Racers in a stucco studio building in DHS, what would be the point exactly?

 

[JoClovesCARS]

But they'd have to spend money to make that money. And TDO would need to spend big, BIG money. The Radiator Springs Racers ride alone has been pegged at $350 Million, and Cars Land as a whole with all the other Cars themed shops/restaurants/rides is well past the Half Billion dollar mark.

That's the type of money they'd spend on a good chunk of a fifth theme park, if the fifth park ever arrives. Unless attendance at DHS really starts to decline for several years, I can't imagine that TDO would shell out even the smaller figure of 350 Million for Radiator Springs Racers, much less the whole Cars Land package.

I have a hunch the bump in attendance that Star Tours 2.0 will give DHS will be enough for TDO to put DHS back on auto-pilot for at least a few years, with maybe the Monsters Inc. indoor coaster coming along later in this decade as the next major new ride for DHS.

While what you say is true, they are spending a big, big chunk of money to appeal to little girls only. I have a 3 year old granddaughter who made a few trips back to see Tink in Toontown on our last visit and a 6 year old grandson who did the same at HS to see McQueen. He is not, and I repeat interested in anything Princess or Fairy so all this money is being aimed at a particular age and ______ group not at the general population. He is not that interested in Star Wars, but he loves the coasters in all parks. He also loves CARS and everything associated with the CARs and the movie and wants to go to DCA when it opens. This is a kid who has well over 200 of the CARS characters plus anything and everything CARS related (that includes bedding, room theme, clothes, shoes, boats and anything else they can put them on) and runs the Piston Cup Race daily. He wants to be the first in line to see the new movie and we probably will be and as soon as it comes out on DVD he will have that as well. I think Disney missed the boat once on this and they are taking a big chance on missing it again. The only thing I can figure is attendance is way down in DCA and that is why they are putting it there, maybe the Route 66 theme has something to do with it, but the fact that you have a park name HOLLYWOOD STUDIOS and already have the 2 cars just sitting there is a shame. they need to expand it and do away with some of the backlot tour. There is plenty of room there for expansion of the CARS theme. :sohappy:

 

[JoClovesCARS]

And also drastically reducing the atmosphere and point to the whole thing.

Have you seen the pictures of Cars Land rockwork and the Cadillac Range? Pictures are impressive, but don't do it justice for how massive and impressive it all is in real life, even only barely half done. Cars Land's rockwork is a new Disney mountain icon in the making, to rival the Matterhorn or Space Mountain. If you just put Radiator Springs Racers in a stucco studio building in DHS, what would be the point exactly?

Agreed, but one the technology and logistics have been worked out on one side of the sea they usually bring it to the other side. Most of what is in DCA is in WDW and so on. They are now making HS Pixar Land and that is what they really need to think about. Pixar is an elephant in itself. They are huge and the biggest money maker Disney has right now. To build CARS LAND just in DCA is a waste considering the volume of people who visit FL not just in the summer, but all year. Considering that FL is a climate controlled location just like CA I don't see any reason not to put CARS LAND and increase Monsters Inc and also Toy Story in FL. These are big time attractions and the toys and merchandise continue to outsell probably the princess line. These are themes that appeal to boy and girls not just one or the other. This is the point I am trying to make. My granddaughter loves TINK and she likes the princesses, but because of her brother she loves MCQueen and Mater as well. She knows the movie inside and out just like him. He has probably watched that movie 1,000 times at least. He could be the poster child for Pixar with CARS believe me, and he is not alone. Disney needs to put more into promoting things for boys, not just the teen size, the younger ones like him.:lol:

 

[Scuttle]

Agreed. I think the phased openings of the FLE present challenges not only from a marketing perspective but from a logistical one as well. The presence of a rather massive construction zone right in the middle of the expansion for 2 years (the future Seven Dwarfs Mine Train) seems particularly problematic. Imagine all of the nosie, the visual intrusions, and the operational headaches (Little Mermaid at a dead end behind the construction, etc.) from that. It wouldn't be nearly so difficult if the last phase of the project (Seven Dwarfs) wasn't the one in front of everything else. Should be an interesting couple of years. (Too bad we don't have a great of a view of the construction like DCA has from the Mickey Wheel).

I wonder what the Seven Dwarfs land will look like when the first phase opens in the FLE. Will Disney do some quick landscaping so they can take down the construction walls temporarily? Or will they have already started on construction of the Mine Train?

But we have the roof of the Contemporary! You just need a good camera or binoculars

 

[misterID]

And also drastically reducing the atmosphere and point to the whole thing.

Have you seen the pictures of Cars Land rockwork and the Cadillac Range? Pictures are impressive, but don't do it justice for how massive and impressive it all is in real life, even only barely half done. Cars Land's rockwork is a new Disney mountain icon in the making, to rival the Matterhorn or Space Mountain. If you just put Radiator Springs Racers in a stucco studio building in DHS, what would be the point exactly?

Eh, I don't think a scaled down model would be that big a deal. I'm sure no one would really care about the size and scope of the Rock work, seeing the major points for the rider would most likely be taken care of. If a RSR in DHS happens, it'll be a cool ride with just a different "atmospheric" experience between the 2 parks.

 

[JoClovesCARS]

Eh, I don't think a scaled down model would be that big a deal. I'm sure no one would really care about the size and scope of the Rock work, seeing the major points for the rider would most likely be taken care of. If a RSR in DHS happens, it'll be a cool ride with just a different "atmospheric" experience between the 2 parks.

Although a scaled down version would be a welcome addition, any child (or adult CARS lover) would tell you they know all the parts of Radiator Springs, down to the Motel in Willys Butte. It is such a wonderful movie with such a great message that sometimes the message is lost in all of it. I for one would welcome CARS LAND in HS and I also would welcome PIXIE HOLLOW in MK. The CARS and TINK are not going away any time soon, believe me. You have to remember Tinkerbell has been around since I was a child and I am 61 and the CARS have continued to grow in popularity. There are a whole series of DVDs for both of these and they continue to grow in both size and popularity. Just my $.02 worth.

 

[Sushi]

I personally don't like Cars. So I'm happy Disney land is getting it and not WDW. I wonder if the imagineers didn't go into my brain and say what would she want? Because Beauty and the Beast and the Little mermaid are my favourite classic movies!

 

[JoClovesCARS]

I personally don't like Cars. So I'm happy Disney land is getting it and not WDW. I wonder if the imagineers didn't go into my brain and say what would she want? Because Beauty and the Beast and the Little mermaid are my favourite classic movies!

Well, you see and no offense to you, you are not there consideration and neither am I because if I was there would be Pixie Hollow and Radiator Springs. As I have said on our last trip in January we bought hopper tickets so my 6 year old grandson could go see McQueen anytime he wanted and my 3 year old daughter could visit Tink in Pixie Hollow whenever she wanted and we are DVC members. So, if they don't care what we think, they certainly don't care what you think because we are putting the money up no matter what the brains at Disney do. We will be taking a trip to DCA so that he can experience RSR and he intends to be the first in line to see the new movie and I will try to do my best to make that happen for him

 

[cheezbat]

you have a point...

See, if it were up to me, we wouldn't be seeing an FLE featuring all this stuff. I would much rather they build an Aladdin dark ride, that Fire Mountain concept, and bring the Indiana Jones Adventure to the MK...but once again I am not the demographic they are looking at.
I'm glad they are adding something for Beauty and the Beast and Mermaid fans...that's great. I'm also glad they're adding the Seven Dwarves Coaster. I think all those things are great additions to the park, but ya can't please everybody!

 

[misterID]

you have a point...

See, if it were up to me, we wouldn't be seeing an FLE featuring all this stuff. I would much rather they build an Aladdin dark ride, that Fire Mountain concept, and bring the Indiana Jones Adventure to the MK...but once again I am not the demographic they are looking at.
I'm glad they are adding something for Beauty and the Beast and Mermaid fans...that's great. I'm also glad they're adding the Seven Dwarves Coaster. I think all those things are great additions to the park, but ya can't please everybody!

Wasn't the Fire Mountain concept fake? Just some fan making up a rumor? I remember Eddie, who was at WDI when this was supposedly being planned, said he never heard of Fire Mountain or Villain/Bald Mountain.

 

[skimbob]

I think we need to look at this a little differently here. We in CA aren't getting most of the new rides that WDW will be getting in the FLE expansion. By the same token WDW won't be getting Cars Land. If you look at all the parks WDW has more rides than DL and DCA so I don't understand why so many people say we in CA get more than you do in FL. I love going to all the parks and I just don't get all the complaining. DL and DCA will never be as big or have as much to offer as WDW. The resorts at WDW also have a lot to offer. Maybe I appreciate it more since I am coming from two much smaller parks.

 

[PurpleRose]

I don't think the statement "We in CA aren't getting most of the new rides that WDW will be getting in the FLE expansion." is correct. There are only two new rides that are going in the "expansion" The 7DMR and TLM. And DCA is getting TLM and getting it first as well.

 

[TP2000]

If you look at all the parks WDW has more rides than DL and DCA so I don't understand why so many people say we in CA get more than you do in FL.... Maybe I appreciate it more since I am coming from two much smaller parks.

Uh-oh, I sense a fellow Californian who needs a Disney refresher course!

Aside from the issue of Fantasyland Expansion having two (2) new rides, one of which (Little Mermaid) opens first at DCA in about 60 days and about 15 months before the Magic Kingdom version opens, there's the issue of total rides per property. When you look at from a purely statistical point of view, Walt Disney World has about 8 more rides and major attractions than Disneyland Resort does here in 2011. A little over a year from now, when Cars Land and Buena Vista Street is open adding four new rides to DCA, the attraction tally gets even tighter.

Walt Disney World Resort Summer 2011 Ride Count
Magic Kingdom Park - 34 Rides and Theater Attractions
Epcot - 21 Rides and Theater Attractions (including all WS pavilions)
DHS - 15 Rides and Theater Attractions (including seasonal offerings)
DAK - 16 Rides and Theater Attractions (including all walking trails)
2011 Total - 86

Disneyland Resort Ride Count Summer 2011 Ride Count
Disneyland Park - 52 Rides and Theater Attractions
Disney California Adventure - 26 Rides and Theater Attractions
2011 Total - 78

It gets more interesting in 2012, when DCA will open four major new unique attractions, and WDW closes down one of their few dark rides and turns it into a meet n' greet photo location; Snow White's Scary Adventures. That takes it to this amazing ride total...

Walt Disney World Summer 2012 Attraction Total - 85
Disneyland Resort Summer 2012 Attraction Total - 82

Now, some of those attractions in the WDW total are fabulously unique Epcot Pavilions like Imagination or Energy, or walk-through World Showcase pavilions like Morocco or Japan; "attractions" that can not be found anywhere else and likely won't be duplicated ever again. (And that keep me coming back to WDW every year or two) On the flip side, some of those in the WDW attractions are tired old things that only operate seasonally, and should probably be put out of their misery, like Sounds Dangerous or Voyage of the Little Mermaid. And at Disneyland, the staggering ride count of the first Disney theme park owes its superiority to an eclectic combination of bizarrely unique 1950's rides like Storybookland Canal Boats, Alice in Wonderland, or the Explorer Canoes, as well as some of the world's best and/or one-of-a-kind E Tickets like Indiana Jones Adventure, Matterhorn Bobsleds, or the Submarine Voyage.

In short, Disneyland Resort has nearly as many "rides" packed into just two parks a 40 second stroll from each other as WDW does sprawled across four theme parks a good distance from each other.

The list of major parades and night-time 'spectaculars' is also very close;

Walt Disney World Entertainment Spectaculars - Summer 2011
Magic Kingdom 3 o'clock Parade
Magic Kingdom Electrical Parade
Magic Kingdom Fireworks
Epcot Reflections of Earth
DHS Countown To Fun Parade
DHS Fantasmic!
DAK Mickey's Jammin' Jungle Parade
Total - 7

Disneyland Resort Entertainment Spectaculars - Summer 2011
Disneyland Soundsational Parade
Disneyland Fantasmic!
Disneyland Fireworks
DCA Pixar Play Parade
DCA World of Color
Total - 5

If the Electrical Parade returns to DCA after the construction is over in 2012, as is strongly rumored, the nighttime spectacular tally turns in to a statistical tie by next summer.

I will leave it up to another thread to debate the artistic merits of the 3 o'clock parade versus Soundsational versus Countdown To Fun versus Pixar Play Parade, the two Fantasmic's versus each other, and World of Color versus Reflections of Earth. This was purely a numbers game here. :lol:

.

 

[skimbob]

Wow that's a lot of numbers. I am shocked that we are that close to WDW. It sure doesn't seem that way on the surface. Thank you TP2000 for going through all of this to educate me and others who also might not realize just how close the numbers are.

I still love going to WDW because of the differences in the offerings. To me WDW is just so large that I am always blown away. Even the resorts are awesome.

PS I think you forgot the water pageant :lol: Sorry I couldn't resist.

 

[TP2000]

Wow that's a lot of numbers. I am shocked that we are that close to WDW....
PS I think you forgot the water pageant :lol: Sorry I couldn't resist.

You're welcome. It's a fun thing to discuss, really.

The depth and breadth of the various offerings in just Disneyland Park alone make it the most chock-full Disney theme park on the planet. I have been making fun of DCA since before it opened in the late 1990's on the old alt.disney.disneyland usenet forums, but you really have to acknowledge its made big strides in the last five years adding new rides and entertainment, with a 1.2 Billion dollar burst of investment finally about to start opening in phases over the next 15 months. Amazing times!

I did forget the Seven Seas Water Pageant, which is a charming and unique offering. You could dig deeper and try and call out all sorts of various offerings. For instance, I didn't include elecTRONica or the new Pirates IV 3-D Experience in the Anaheim tally either. I just tried to keep it to the most basic offerings of rides/attractions, theater shows or major parades/spectaculars.

I think because you can walk between all of the rides, shows and attractions in Anaheim within a 15 or 20 minute stroll, it seems like there's "less" than at WDW because you have to take a bus or a boat or a monorail to get from one park to the other. That can add to the fun at WDW, at least the boats and monorails can (not so much the buses), but it also skews the perception of what is actually there.

 

[Skibum1970]

A little bit off-topic but I have a question regarding the Radiator Springs Racers. It appears that the cars make their way outside briefly to pass in front of a waterfall as a nod to the touring scene leading to "Wheel Well". If that is an outside shot, does anyone know the relative height of the track at that point or am I incorrect on interpreting that path?

 

[misterID]

Walt Disney World Summer 2012 Attraction Total - 85
Disneyland Resort Summer 2012 Attraction Total - 82

Wow. That's crazy. I didn't think it was that close.

I don't want to hear another Disneylander ever complain again!

 

[TP2000]

Wow. That's crazy. I didn't think it was that close.

I don't want to hear another Disneylander ever complain again!

Most people are surprised at that, since the conventional thinking of many Americans living east of the Rockies is that Disneyland is just a "little locals park" that caters only to those in SoCal. But you won't hear me complain about it, that's for sure! :lol:

Getting back OT a bit, this new image showed up in the Disneyland section of an aerial image taken almost two months ago of Cars Land construction.

With the bigger image available at this link http://www.mouseinfo.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=39520&original=1

It's a shame I'm not better at computer imagery, nor do we have an exact scale used here, because it would be fun to overlay this image on the Fantasyland Expansion aerial images to see how the two mega-projects compare and contrast.

This Cars Land image seems to be taken from a higher elevation than the FLE we've seen lately, judging by the size of the cars and equipment in the Cars Land photo, as well as the size of some of the nearby DCA structures. That's busy Katella Avenue at the top of the picture, which shows just how close the Disneyland Resort theme parks can be to city streets.

Katella Avenue from street level, in the same area as seen in the aerial pic above

Directly across Katella in that photo is the Anaheim Arena and Anaheim Convention Center where the D23 Expo will be held this August.

It would be fun to be able to overlay these types of pictures on each other, from both FLE and Cars Land. I think you'd need helicopters hovering at the same level, or at least be able to determine the exact scale used in each photo.

 

[eilie]

It's a shame I'm not better at computer imagery, nor do we have an exact scale used here, because it would be fun to overlay this image on the Fantasyland Expansion aerial images to see how the two mega-projects compare and contrast.

This Cars Land image seems to be taken from a higher elevation than the FLE we've seen lately, judging by the size of the cars and equipment in the Cars Land photo, as well as the size of some of the nearby DCA structures. That's busy Katella Avenue at the top of the picture, which shows just how close the Disneyland Resort theme parks can be to city streets.

It would be fun to be able to overlay these types of pictures on each other, from both FLE and Cars Land. I think you'd need helicopters hovering at the same level, or at least be able to determine the exact scale used in each photo.

Good idea! I know this isn't really what you're looking for, but here are two aerials - at the exact same scale - for size comparisons. They're both horribly out of date, but the online mapping sites (like Google and Bing) haven't updated their aerials in a while. At least they have scale bars for comparison purposes (I've included a simple one here).

I wish we could compare the more recent aerials taken from helicopters, etc. but it's impossible to scale any non-orthogonal image (i.e. those not taken directly overhead). I bet we could scale the one you posted of DCA, though, since that one was taken at a great angle.

At first glance, Carsland seems HUGE compared to the FLE, but I think that's because the area of construction is less well-defined in the MK aerial. When Toon Town, etc. are taken into account, the two construction sites seem to be roughly comparable in size. We know Cars Land is 12 acres - I wonder what the total acreage is of the FLE.