Flamingo Crossing Retail Center

[Master Yoda]

Really? In the Tampa Bay area, they can't seem to get those wooden ones up fast enough. You can always see them coming because you see the odd cement towers for the elevators pop up a month or so before the wood starts rising.

They could be making up for it somewhere else. (eg reducing the number of windows, keeping wall heights to no more than 8', etc.)

 

[the.dreamfinder]

He said himself that the plan was too big for one company to build. That wasn't a real plan it was a concept, Walt never intended to build that. That also isn't all his idea that concept was popular back in the 50's-60's.

Walt intended to build that city with partners whereby the Disney organization would serve as the facilitator/coordinator/designer for the overall project.

Remember, Walt wanted to use “East Coast Disneyland” to pay for E.P.C.O.T.

 

[MrPromey]

They could be making up for it somewhere else. (eg reducing the number of windows, keeping wall heights to no more than 8', etc.)

I just assume all these wooden ones are people after a quick buck who know they'll probably need to be torn down in a decade or so and just don't care. :shrug

 

[JoeCamel]

Really? In the Tampa Bay area, they can't seem to get those wooden ones up fast enough. You can always see them coming because you see the odd cement towers for the elevators pop up a month or so before the wood starts rising.

The MIami-Dade building code adopted after Andrew and since adopted by most of Florida calls for structures to withstand 175 mph 1 - 2 miles from the coast, inland the requirements are reduced. The fire traps are just engineered to withstand the expected wind at that location and are not on the coast.

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/S...de-StrongAnd-North-Floridas-Could-Be-Stronger

 

[lazyboy97o]

The MIami-Dade building code adopted after Andrew and since adopted by most of Florida calls for structures to withstand 175 mph 1 - 2 miles from the coast, inland the requirements are reduced. The fire traps are just engineered to withstand the expected wind at that location and are not on the coast.

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/S...de-StrongAnd-North-Floridas-Could-Be-Stronger

They have to meet the fire resistance requirements of the code which typically would be a minimum one hour fire resistance between units and the corridors.

 

[Master Yoda]

I just assume all these wooden ones are people after a quick buck who know they'll probably need to be torn down in a decade or so and just don't care. :shrug

I would say a good 90% of construction, both residential and especially commercial, is done that way. About the only time you see someone go above and beyond what is required is in a rare case like Disney, or when you have an individual homowner with very deep pockets that are building their last home.

I shudder to think what this country would look like without building codes.

The MIami-Dade building code adopted after Andrew and since adopted by most of Florida calls for structures to withstand 175 mph 1 - 2 miles from the coast, inland the requirements are reduced. The fire traps are just engineered to withstand the expected wind at that location and are not on the coast.

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/S...de-StrongAnd-North-Floridas-Could-Be-Stronger

All of Florida is technically under the same building code since the rewrite that began in 2000.

What differs is the wind speed that you are required to design to based on the location of the project. The farther north you go the lower the wind speed gets. Miami/Dade falls in a 180-190 mph 3 second gust area whereas someplace like Jacksonville will be in a 120-130 mph zone. Obviously, what works in a 130 mph zone might not necessarily work in one where 190 mph is required. Engineers and builders modify their practices to what they feel will be the most economical way to build the structure and still meet code.

As I understand it, the big difference in Miami/Dade aside from the higher wind speeds is enforcement. IMHO this is due to what happened during Andrew. There really was not a problem with the code back then, it was just not enforced. At the time Andrew hit code required 35 nails in a sheet of plywood on a roof. In Homestead, they found numerous instances where entire roofs were held down with only 4 nails and sometimes 4 staples per sheet of plywood.

Plywood nailing was only one such example. In many cases, framing and trusses were held down with just toenails vs clips, gables roofs were not braced properly many gables were not even built properly from the start making propper bracing impossible along with a myriad of other things in the existing code that were simply ignored.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Walt intended to build that city with partners whereby the Disney organization would serve as the facilitator/coordinator/designer for the overall project.

Remember, Walt wanted to use “East Coast Disneyland” to pay for E.P.C.O.T.

I thought the East Coast Disneyland was there for employment for the people living at E.P.C.O.T to work for a living.If your lived in the community, you were going to work for it.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I thought the East Coast Disneyland was there for employment for the people living at E.P.C.O.T to work for a living.If your lived in the community, you were going to work for it.

No. No one would really live in E.P.C.O.T., its residents would be temporary, connected to private industry or the public/academic sector , staying for 12-18 months at a time.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

No. No one would really live in E.P.C.O.T., its residents would be temporary, connected to private industry or the public/academic sector , staying for 12-18 months at a time.

CP’s before there were CP’s

 

[MrPromey]

The MIami-Dade building code adopted after Andrew and since adopted by most of Florida calls for structures to withstand 175 mph 1 - 2 miles from the coast, inland the requirements are reduced. The fire traps are just engineered to withstand the expected wind at that location and are not on the coast.

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/S...de-StrongAnd-North-Floridas-Could-Be-Stronger

Umm... actually no. A huge amount of Tampa Bay, the area I mentioned that you're responding to, is on the "coast". The most densely populated county in all of Florida (Pinellas) is contained entirely within a peninsula. Some of these things are going up maybe less than 1,000 feet from a coastline around here.

It sounds like Master Yoda's response kind of explains it, though:

I would say a good 90% of construction, both residential and especially commercial, is done that way. About the only time you see someone go above and beyond what is required is in a rare case like Disney, or when you have an individual homowner with very deep pockets that are building their last home.

I shudder to think what this country would look like without building codes.


All of Florida is technically under the same building code since the rewrite that began in 2000.

What differs is the wind speed that you are required to design to based on the location of the project. The farther north you go the lower the wind speed gets. Miami/Dade falls in a 180-190 mph 3 second gust area whereas someplace like Jacksonville will be in a 120-130 mph zone. Obviously, what works in a 130 mph zone might not necessarily work in one where 190 mph is required. Engineers and builders modify their practices to what they feel will be the most economical way to build the structure and still meet code.

As I understand it, the big difference in Miami/Dade aside from the higher wind speeds is enforcement. IMHO this is due to what happened during Andrew. There really was not a problem with the code back then, it was just not enforced. At the time Andrew hit code required 35 nails in a sheet of plywood on a roof. In Homestead, they found numerous instances where entire roofs were held down with only 4 nails and sometimes 4 staples per sheet of plywood.

Plywood nailing was only one such example. In many cases, framing and trusses were held down with just toenails vs clips, gables roofs were not braced properly many gables were not even built properly from the start making propper bracing impossible along with a myriad of other things in the existing code that were simply ignored.

 

[danlb_2000]

Despite the construction shut down there were a couple interesting permits today all of them a little cryptic. I cannot locate this address but the new Hampton Inn is listed at 13265 so this would be a little north of that.

3/20/2020 - Flamingo Crossing - H o a r Construction
13200 Flamingo Crossing Blvd - Area development including underground utilities, grading, paving and other site improvements

 

[JaxFLBear]

Despite the construction shut down there were a couple interesting permits today all of them a little cryptic. I cannot locate this address but the new Hampton Inn is listed at 13265 so this would be a little north of that.

3/20/2020 - Flamingo Crossing - H o a r Construction
13200 Flamingo Crossing Blvd - Area development including underground utilities, grading, paving and other site improvements

Orange County Property Appraiser website says it's a cell tower site.

Orange County Property Appraiser

www.ocpafl.org

 

[danlb_2000]

Orange County Property Appraiser website says it's a cell tower site.

Orange County Property Appraiser

www.ocpafl.org

Interesting. Obviously the work described is to extensive for cell tower but it might be related to the housing being built in that area.

 

[Figments Friend]

I’m so sick of everyone moving down here...my neighborhood was out in the country...now it’s urban sprawl with more on the way. Prices for everything keep going up because of it. Makes me want to move.

As you know, i used to live in Florida in the early 1980s. Nice place with lots of space and miles of flat, open landscape.
Quite a change from the Northeast where i came from.

Fast forward several years.
I will always remember the absolute shock i felt when i visited the Orlando area in 2000 after being away for so many years.
The ride alone from the airport was a real eye opener for me.
SO MUCH had been built up in the 11 years or so i had been elsewhere....it was mind blowing.
Condos as far as the eye can see....gigantic ( and i mean gigantic ) sized retail stores.
I-Drive was a sprawling, congested mess even more overdeveloped then i ever remembered it to be.

It was a real wake up visit.

When i come down periodically these days, i still marvel at the continuing (over)development of certain areas and watch as yet more and more flat land gets covered in housing.
I understand the demand, but man.....
There has to be some kind of restraint at some point or it is going to become just as suburban as the cities most people are fleeing from.

Florida in 1981 was a very different place then what it is today in 2020.

-

 

[JoeCamel]

As you know, i used to live in Florida in the early 1980s. Nice place with lots of space and miles of flat, open landscape.
Quite a change from the Northeast where i came from.

Fast forward several years.
I will always remember the absolute shock i felt when i visited the Orlando area in 2000 after being away for so many years.
The ride alone from the airport was a real eye opener for me.
SO MUCH had been built up in the 11 years or so i had been elsewhere....it was mind blowing.
Condos as far as the eye can see....gigantic ( and i mean gigantic ) sized retail stores.
I-Drive was a sprawling, congested mess even more overdeveloped then i ever remembered it to be.

It was a real wake up visit.

When i come down periodically these days, i still marvel at the continuing (over)development of certain areas and watch as yet more and more flat land gets covered in housing.
I understand the demand, but man.....
There has to be some kind of restraint at some point or it is going to become just as suburban as the cities most people are fleeing from.

Florida in 1981 was a very different place then what it is today in 2020.

-

Was OBT the paradise it is today?

 

[Grotto123]

As you know, i used to live in Florida in the early 1980s. Nice place with lots of space and miles of flat, open landscape.
Quite a change from the Northeast where i came from.

Fast forward several years.
I will always remember the absolute shock i felt when i visited the Orlando area in 2000 after being away for so many years.
The ride alone from the airport was a real eye opener for me.
SO MUCH had been built up in the 11 years or so i had been elsewhere....it was mind blowing.
Condos as far as the eye can see....gigantic ( and i mean gigantic ) sized retail stores.
I-Drive was a sprawling, congested mess even more overdeveloped then i ever remembered it to be.

It was a real wake up visit.

When i come down periodically these days, i still marvel at the continuing (over)development of certain areas and watch as yet more and more flat land gets covered in housing.
I understand the demand, but man.....
There has to be some kind of restraint at some point or it is going to become just as suburban as the cities most people are fleeing from.

Florida in 1981 was a very different place then what it is today in 2020.

-

Yea I agree it's completely getting out of hand. Towns like Clermont actually had to put a ban on new apartments and housing developments because they were afraid of the traffic it would bring. Orlando's economy will survivebwith what it has now there is no need to keep developing.

 

[wishiwere@wdw]

Lol. Wish I had that kind of money.

We should maybe see a bit of a scale back now with all of this? I think?

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

We should maybe see a bit of a scale back now with all of this? I think?

CP housing? Not a chance. They pay $1.00 out of $10.00 to them and the CP works to pay their rent.
How many rooms are there any to be? Just 10,400 or is that just phase one? Any idea with the permits ??

 

[wishiwere@wdw]

CP housing? Not a chance. They pay $1.00 out of $10.00 to them and the CP works to pay their rent.
How many rooms are there any to be? Just 10,400 or is that just phase one? Any idea with the permits ??

Yeah. The housing is certainly staying. For what it’s worth, I’m hopeful that the facilities are a nice upgrade at least. I was speaking to all of the new development that’s popped up along Avalon between Flamingo and Independence.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Yeah. The housing is certainly staying. For what it’s worth, I’m hopeful that the facilities are a nice upgrade at least. I was speaking to all of the new development that’s popped up along Avalon between Flamingo and Independence.

Everything else is full steam a head. Everywhere is still building like nothing is going on except WDW. The next few weeks will probably give us an idea if we are going into a recession.