Fire hazard in resort hotels!

[Phonedave]

Except, ECVs in neutral are super easy to move.

I can not make a determination if they are against fire code or not, but being easy to move makes no difference.

Move to WHERE? So there is a fire, people flood into the hallway, the ECV is in their way - but it is so easy to roll. What do they do, roll it along with the crowd? Find a handy corner to tuck it into somewhere? Find an empty room somewhere and push it in there? Hardly likely, people are going to trip over it, and if it is in their way, shove it. Likely moving it into somebody else's way.

 

[cmwade77]

Or you could just admit you thought you found a way to allow them and were wrong. The code is all right there in rather plain language.

Nope, because I know there is often more to the code than what you or I have access to. As I said, I am not the fire Marshall or an apointee, so I cannot make the determination and neither can you.

As I said there are legitimate reasons why ECVs shouldn't be left outside of a room and it would be wise to point those reasons that are undisputable out rather than try to claim code violations when you don't know if it is a code violation or not.

 

[YorkshireT]

I just can’t understand why so many people are on scooters. In our towns, cities, theme parks etc here in the UK, we don’t see all these people on scooters.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Nope, because I know there is often more to the code than what you or I have access to. As I said, I am not the fire Marshall or an apointee, so I cannot make the determination and neither can you.

As I said there are legitimate reasons why ECVs shouldn't be left outside of a room and it would be wise to point those reasons that are undisputable out rather than try to claim code violations when you don't know if it is a code violation or not.

There is no secret fire code. The entirety of the Florida Fire Prevention Code is available online for free.

Florida Fire Prevention Code Page

There is no secret fire code because fire marshals are not the only people who should and need to know the fire code. You can read all of NFPA 101, model or as amended, and you will find no exception to 7.1.10.

 

[xdan0920]

There is no secret fire code. The entirety of the Florida Fire Prevention Code is available online for free.

Florida Fire Prevention Code Page

There is no secret fire code because fire marshals are not the only people who should and need to know the fire code. You can read all of NFPA 101, model or as amended, and you will find no exception to 7.1.10.

This might be my favorite back and forth in WDWMagic history. One person presenting clear cut facts, backed by actual legal literature. And the other person just saying, well maybe the code doesn't apply because.....reasons???

 

[correcaminos]

I just can’t understand why so many people are on scooters. In our towns, cities, theme parks etc here in the UK, we don’t see all these people on scooters.

Without these the family members would stay home. We are not crawling with ECVs otherwise, but Disney lures in with family friendly rides that amusement parks don't have and with all the walking, it's an ECV or no go. My aunt with CP and ALS like degeneration used one to get around. She could walk small distances only at the time.

For the record rented ECVs aren't always nice. Putting it in neutral wasn't always easy nor was it super easy to move far distances in neutral.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Without these the family members would stay home. We are not crawling with ECVs otherwise, but Disney lures in with family friendly rides that amusement parks don't have and with all the walking, it's an ECV or no go. My aunt with CP and ALS like degeneration used one to get around. She could walk small distances only at the time.

For the record rented ECVs aren't always nice. Putting it in neutral wasn't always easy nor was it super easy to move far distances in neutral.

I am thinking you're right. Also, it doesn't matter if they are easy to move, it certainly makes cleaning a hallway more difficult and time consuming (which we consumers pay for in the end) when a hallway is filled with machines rather than when it is empty. I'd I know housekeeping is coming I certainly don't leave my floor clutter with dirty cloths etc.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Except, ECVs in neutral are super easy to move. Again, there are reasons it is a bad idea to leave ECVs in hallways, but fire code and housekeeping aren't really an issue.

And honestly while it may take some creativity, I have yet to see a room where you can't fit at least two large ECVs inside the room and still be able to love around. We fit two Maxima's (among the largest allowed on the buses) in a non ADA room at All Star Sports on our last trip. We did have to move the table and chairs to the other side of the TV and actually unpack our suitcases so they could be out up on a shelf, but there was plenty of room to move around.

So for DVC rooms, which are substantially larger (even studio rooms), you should easily be able to find enough room as well.

Again though, bringing them in isn't about fire codes or housekeeping, but rather preventing theft and damage (especially from rain in outdoor cooridors).

If so easy to move, then just move them to the hall temporarily, but move them back in when unpacked, etc.

 

[cmwade77]

Without these the family members would stay home. We are not crawling with ECVs otherwise, but Disney lures in with family friendly rides that amusement parks don't have and with all the walking, it's an ECV or no go. My aunt with CP and ALS like degeneration used one to get around. She could walk small distances only at the time.

For the record rented ECVs aren't always nice. Putting it in neutral wasn't always easy nor was it super easy to move far distances in neutral.

Rent from Gold Mobility and these issues go away, they have the nicest scooters at the most affordable prices with lots of free upgrades. Not to mention the best customer service.

 

[cmwade77]

If so easy to move, then just move them to the hall temporarily, but move them back in when unpacked, etc.

As I said, I agree they shouldn't be left in the hall, what I take issue with is the person claiming that it violates fire code when it may or may not, but neither they not I are a fire Marshall or appointed by one to make such a determination. And making claims it is definitely against fire code when you are not a fire Marshall (and not one in the Reedy Creek District in Florida) or appointed by one ends up diminishing other arguments that support not leaving ECVs in hallways.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

As I said, I agree they shouldn't be left in the hall, what I take issue with is the person claiming that it violates fire code when it may or may not, but neither they not I are a fire Marshall or appointed by one to make such a determination. And making claims it is definitely against fire code when you are not a fire Marshall (and not one in the Reedy Creek District in Florida) or appointed by one ends up diminishing other arguments that support not leaving ECVs in hallways.

I could have sworn you said they are easy to move and thus not an issue for housekeeping.

 

[xdan0920]

As I said, I agree they shouldn't be left in the hall, what I take issue with is the person claiming that it violates fire code when it may or may not, but neither they not I are a fire Marshall or appointed by one to make such a determination. And making claims it is definitely against fire code when you are not a fire Marshall (and not one in the Reedy Creek District in Florida) or appointed by one ends up diminishing other arguments that support not leaving ECVs in hallways.

Where do you think the “fire marshal” gets his direction?

 

[correcaminos]

Rent from Gold Mobility and these issues go away, they have the nicest scooters at the most affordable prices with lots of free upgrades. Not to mention the best customer service.

I admit one of the things that irks me when people presume to know the situation better than the person talking about their real and personal experience. They really are not that easy to use, no matter who we have rented through. Not impossible, but not always easy.

Plus Gold Mobility won't be happy to know you are promoting leaving their ECVs in the hall. At least last time I worked with them, they were against it.

I am thinking you're right. Also, it doesn't matter if they are easy to move, it certainly makes cleaning a hallway more difficult and time consuming (which we consumers pay for in the end) when a hallway is filled with machines rather than when it is empty. I'd I know housekeeping is coming I certainly don't leave my floor clutter with dirty cloths etc.

Yeah, I don't see near as many ECVs in other places and that has to be why.

I'm with you too. They don't belong in the halls. None of those I rented from wanted us to do it, nor did Disney the time we asked.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Where do you think the “fire marshal” gets his direction?

Cleary they just make it up and don’t share it with the architects, engineers, facility managers, contractors, inspectors, code reviewers, operators, risk managers or anyone else who is involved in safely designing, building and operating a building.

 

[Simba’s Mom]

I cannot understand how people feel comfortable leaving their scooters in the hall. Aren't they afraid they'll be taken, or damaged, or food dropped on them? I travel solo to WDW about once a year and use an ECV. Although it's a little difficult to get my scooter in/out of my room (I SO wish for automatic doors), I wouldn't dream of leaving it in the hall. I'd be so afraid something would happen to it, and although I have insurance, it would take time out of my vacation if I had to have my scooter cleaned or replaced.

 

[DisneyJoe]

I cannot understand how people feel comfortable leaving their scooters in the hall. Aren't they afraid they'll be taken, or damaged, or food dropped on them? I travel solo to WDW about once a year and use an ECV. Although it's a little difficult to get my scooter in/out of my room (I SO wish for automatic doors), I wouldn't dream of leaving it in the hall. I'd be so afraid something would happen to it, and although I have insurance, it would take time out of my vacation if I had to have my scooter cleaned or replaced.

I only leave my ECV in the hall if I am making a quick visit to my room (less than 30 minutes or so, usually between meetings or for a quick change). Yes, those "in the know" can put the ECV in manual mode and push it, but that is really not that easy to do. I have never in 11 years of trips seen anyone spill food or drink in the hall, maybe I am just lucky.

 

[scottieRoss]

Under the Florida building code, egress paths like hallways (but not starwells) must have a specific width if the building is sprinkled. The formula is .15" per person served by the egress. So a hotel hallway would be number of rooms x capacity of the room. The egress can be obstructed as long as the specified width is left clear.
If a hallway has 20 rooms between stairwells, and an average capacity of 5 persons per room it must have 15" of clear egress. Minimum egress is 30" so the hallway must have 30" clear.
50 rooms would require 37.5"
This is an exception found in the code at 1005.3.2 and only applies if the egress is sprinkled.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Under the Florida building code, egress paths like hallways (but not starwells) must have a specific width if the building is sprinkled. The formula is .15" per person served by the egress. So a hotel hallway would be number of rooms x capacity of the room. The egress can be obstructed as long as the specified width is left clear.
If a hallway has 20 rooms between stairwells, and an average capacity of 5 persons per room it must have 15" of clear egress. Minimum egress is 30" so the hallway must have 30" clear.
50 rooms would require 37.5"
This is an exception found in the code at 1005.3.2 and only applies if the egress is sprinkled.

Florida Building Code Table 1020.2 requires a minimum corridor width of 44”.

The Florida Building Code does not supersede the Florida Fire Prevention Code and EPCOT Building Code. NFPA 101 7.3.3 and 28.2.3 do not allow for the reduction to 0.15“ per person with 28.2.3.3 modifying 7.3.4 to require a 44” minimum clearance. Chapter 29 has less restrictive requirements but those only apply to hotels that predate the adoption of the 44” minimum and have not been renovated to a level requiring the 44” clearance.

EPCOT Building a Code has a completely different width calculation where Occupant Load / 50 = Width in Feet.

And once again, NFPA 101 7.1.10 always applies.

 

[jaklgreen]

View attachment 439522
One scooter is too many parked like this. During the handful of times my wife required a scooter we always kept it in the room.

This is annoying. These people did not even put it flush against the wall. This smacks of inconsideration. If a person wants to leave their ECV/stroller, or anything else in the hallway, then they should leave it right outside their own door. Have it block their egress and not anyone else's.

 

[buseegal]

You can't take a scooter and drive it without the key... you could put it in manual mode and push it, but that's difficult.

you can put in manual mode and push but they are not hard to push in manual. that is how ECVs are moved at rides when they need to be moved by CMs to unloading, and yes i could see a group of young people having fun that way