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Fire hazard in resort hotels!

lemon peeler

New Member
Original Poster
From Florida Code:
TABLE 1020.2
MINIMUM CORRIDOR WIDTH
OCCUPANCY MINIMUM WIDTH (inches) Any facilities not listed below 44 inches


1020.3 Obstruction.
The minimum width or required capacity of corridors shall be unobstructed.


When an electric scooter is in the hallway, the corridor is quite a bit less than the required 44 inches wide.
 

lemon peeler

New Member
Original Poster
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Even if someone told you to leave your scooter in the hallway, why would you? Are you unable to see that the hallway is blocked?
 

FCivish3

Member
And the scooters? Don't people know that parking scooters in the hallway at the resort is a fire hazard? Just in my short section of BWV hallway there were five scooters parked.
Here I am, in defense of scooters in the halls.

Yes, scooters can be an 'Obstacle' in the hall, though they don't really BLOCK the hall. The fire code says NO, but is this really such a problem? On the one hand, parking scooters in the halls is against the fire code. However, our society is becoming more politically correct, and no one wants to tell a Disabled person, 'No.' People want to comply with the, "American's with Disabilities Act." Also, this behaviour towards disabled people isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it reinforces the fact that life is a series of compromises. Parking scooters in the hall is just one of those things that is technically prohibited, but allowed because, though it causes one problem, it helps other problems. Besides, I can tell you that if people park them in their rooms, it can take a minute or two to get them out of the room, because they are hard to maneuver in the tight spaces of the room. So, now, what happens when there is a fire and the Disabled person has the scooter in their room. Are they supposed to die in the fire, while trying to get their scooters out? Because they parked them in the room to comply with other people? Why do you deny them the chance to run out of their room and escape on their scooter?

So, that being said, are they REALLY that much of a fire hazard? Blocking egress? I mean, come on. Walk around them. And if there is a fire and you are crawling on the floor, then CRAWL around them. How much longer is it going to take? A quarter second? It would really only be a POSSIBLE problem if you were walking down the hall to escape the fire, and had your hand on the wall to guide you because you couldn't see, due to the smoke. But once you ran into the scooter, you would know what it was, and go around it. And if you can't see because the smoke is that thick, you should probably be on the floor crawling, anyways. Besides which - a word to the wise - you should plan ahead and always know where ALL of the nearby exits are, and think about it. "If there was a fire over there, where would I go? And if there was a fire over here, which exit can I get to?" And while you are at it, you might also think, "Oh, and there might be some scooters in the hall. I know this because I can see them. So, if there is a fire in the building, what do I need to avoid the scooters?" And, one more thing, a hallway in a hotel is NOT an auditorium. It is not nearly as crowded. People will not be trampling all over each other to get out. So a scooter is unlikely to seriously obstruct the flow.

I do not currently use a scooter, but I have had multiple surgeries on my knees and was even in a wheelchair for 10 weeks, without being able to walk at all, after one of my surgeries. I eventually got both knees replaced, because the other surgeries weren't enough, and during the meantime, I was unable to walk very far. So, I don't need them now, but I understand people who do. And sometimes it isn't an orthopedic problem. I just went to the grocery store with my wife and she used a scooter, one of the few times she has ever done so, because she has passed out twice in the last week or so. She wanted to go to the store, but she rightly judged that she might end up on the floor.

Anyway, as they say, there are two sides to every story. I realize that scooters COULD be a problem. But they generally will not REALLY be a problem, and they could even be helpful.
 
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sndral

Active Member
...Besides, I can tell you that if people park them in their rooms, it can take a minute or two to get them out of the room, because they are hard to maneuver in the tight spaces of the room. So, now, what happens when there is a fire and the Disabled person has the scooter in their room. Are they supposed to die in the fire, while trying to get their scooters out? Because they parked them in the room to comply with other people? Why do you deny them the chance to run out of their room and escape on their scooter...
Most Disney ECV users seem able to traverse short distances, those unable to do so are in H/A rooms designed to accomodate their mobility device.
You do realize that unless the ECV user is on the first floor there’s no point in driving their scooter to an elevator because the elevators likely won’t be working during an emergency evacuation due to an active fire, or worse yet, could stop working with you trapped inside. Get to the stairwell, even if you can’t get down the stairs, fire personnel or trained staff will get you out from there.
Irrespective of our personal preferences or theories, the Fire Code is based on making things safer for most people - until the fire code changes Disney should abide by it IMO.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Here I am, in defense of scooters in the halls.

Yes, scooters can be an 'Obstacle' in the hall, though they don't really BLOCK the hall. The fire code says NO, but is this really such a problem? On the one hand, parking scooters in the halls is against the fire code. However, our society is becoming more politically correct, and no one wants to tell a Disabled person, 'No.' People want to comply with the, "American's with Disabilities Act." Also, this behaviour towards disabled people isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it reinforces the fact that life is a series of compromises. Parking scooters in the hall is just one of those things that is technically prohibited, but allowed because, though it causes one problem, it helps other problems. Besides, I can tell you that if people park them in their rooms, it can take a minute or two to get them out of the room, because they are hard to maneuver in the tight spaces of the room. So, now, what happens when there is a fire and the Disabled person has the scooter in their room. Are they supposed to die in the fire, while trying to get their scooters out? Because they parked them in the room to comply with other people? Why do you deny them the chance to run out of their room and escape on their scooter?

So, that being said, are they REALLY that much of a fire hazard? Blocking egress? I mean, come on. Walk around them. And if there is a fire and you are crawling on the floor, then CRAWL around them. How much longer is it going to take? A quarter second? It would really only be a POSSIBLE problem if you were walking down the hall to escape the fire, and had your hand on the wall to guide you because you couldn't see, due to the smoke. But once you ran into the scooter, you would know what it was, and go around it. And if you can't see because the smoke is that thick, you should probably be on the floor crawling, anyways. Besides which - a word to the wise - you should plan ahead and always know where ALL of the nearby exits are, and think about it. "If there was a fire over there, where would I go? And if there was a fire over here, which exit can I get to?" And while you are at it, you might also think, "Oh, and there might be some scooters in the hall. I know this because I can see them. So, if there is a fire in the building, what do I need to avoid the scooters?" And, one more thing, a hallway in a hotel is NOT an auditorium. It is not nearly as crowded. People will not be trampling all over each other to get out. So a scooter is unlikely to seriously obstruct the flow.

I do not currently use a scooter, but I have had multiple surgeries on my knees and was even in a wheelchair for 10 weeks, without being able to walk at all, after one of my surgeries. I eventually got both knees replaced, because the other surgeries weren't enough, and during the meantime, I was unable to walk very far. So, I don't need them now, but I understand people who do. And sometimes it isn't an orthopedic problem. I just went to the grocery store with my wife and she used a scooter, one of the few times she has ever done so, because she has passed out twice in the last week or so. She wanted to go to the store, but she rightly judged that she might end up on the floor.

Anyway, as they say, there are two sides to every story. I realize that scooters COULD be a problem. But they generally will not REALLY be a problem, and they could even be helpful.
Means of egress are designed based on the occupant load of a building. The hallway is a certain width to accommodate the anticipated number of occupants safely. Obstacles along the means of egress reduce that capacity putting more people in harm’s way. It’s no different than an auditorium, both are designed to suit the number of occupants.

A person parking an ECV in their room is going to know the location of that ECV. The other occupants of the floor who are seeking egress shouldn’t have to repeatedly survey the means of egress to ensure they are free of obstacles as is required. Your idea that an ECV will assist in egress is a bit lacking, as most ECVs are incapable of navigating stairs and emergency egress elevators are still rather uncommon.

So yes, ECVs blocking the means of egress really are a problem.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
Our 24th NYE trip in a row since buying DVC in 1995. Why are there so many animals in the resorts and parks? Dogs are smelly and dangerous to others.

And the scooters? Don't people know that parking scooters in the hallway at the resort is a fire hazard? Just in my short section of BWV hallway there were five scooters parked. No, not along the wall but right in the middle of the hallway. I mentioned it to the front desk, CM said it was not allowed but it continued for the 8 nights. This is not a post against the disabled but a post against the very few posing hazards to the rest of us.

Decided to forget the parks and spend the days at the BWV quiet pool, a real gem. Considering whether or not to continue DVC ownership.

ok take a deep breathe.

What I try to remember is that people don't intentionally say "I'm going to create a fire hazard" when they do things.

Let's look at the scooter situation, I'm willing to bet the following happened.

1st guy puts his scooter in the hallway, for the sole reason to get a bit more room in his living space. he probably tried to put it up against the wall as close as possible.

2nd guys see this from the 1st room and think, "that's a great idea". so forth and so on.

by the time the 4th guys see it done they probably are seriously thinking it's ok.


Now I'm also going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say they did not realized it moved into the middle of the hallway.



some tips for getting help that I found very useful.

1) some times doing a tag team is the way to go. I call housekeeping and the front desk. remember depending on the time of day the poor front desk cm gets swamped.

2) be very intentional. what I mean is that I find when I go to the front desk and wait there for resolution I have greater success then casually mentioning something to them on the way to the parks. remember again, if it's check in or check out time they can get uber busy.

3) be a little proactive and don't assume the worst. scooter in the middle of the hallway? I would have simply had one of my boys or my old guy push it against the wall. again, think about what the scooter may mean. a) senior citizen traveling with a family or b) some one with a disability. both scenarios could cause all kinds of distractions where little things get lost.


not really sure this is an issue where I'd be selling my points.
 

FCivish3

Member
Not sure if they are going to start enforcing the fire code and require scooters to be in the rooms, BUT, they just announced that companies would no longer be able to drop off scooters at Bell Services or pick them up from Bell Services. Patrons will need to come down to the front of the resort and meet the drivers themselves, when the drivers drop off the scooters. I have done this before for various family members at both poly and Animal Kingdom villas. It takes a bit more time, but isn't usually a big problem.
 

EOD K9

Well-Known Member
People can still have scooters. They just cant have them dropped off and waiting for them upon arrival. Guests can still bring their scooters to their rooms.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
It's official on Disney's site about Scooter Bug too now


They also will be in charge of strollers too. I do wonder if groceries will be next...l
 

TinyTGO

New Member
From Florida Code:
TABLE 1020.2
MINIMUM CORRIDOR WIDTH
OCCUPANCY MINIMUM WIDTH (inches) Any facilities not listed below 44 inches


1020.3 Obstruction.
The minimum width or required capacity of corridors shall be unobstructed.


When an electric scooter is in the hallway, the corridor is quite a bit less than the required 44 inches wide.
Call the fire department next time. Problem solved
 

Weather_Lady

Well-Known Member
Once upon a time in college, I was caught up in a stampede situation in a hallway in which dozens of students, thinking they were fleeing a fire, attempted to run out of the building. A single backpack that had been left out in the hallway tripped someone up -- that person fell and then others (including me) tripped over him and went down, while the crowd behind surged forward and literally ran over the top of us. The whole thing was over in less than 2 minutes, but I emerged bleeding profusely from a gash in one knee, with a scraped-up nose, shoeprint-shaped bruises on my back and legs, and a memory of abject panic that I'll never forget. I was fortunate that that was the extent of it.

Suffice it to say I've seen firsthand what even the smallest obstruction can do when people are panicked and trying to flee down a hallway. The idea that any entitled moron thinks it's acceptable to park their scooter overnight in a hotel hallway just because an emergency "isn't likely" is crazy to me. My guess is they've just never spent any quality time at the bottom of a pile of screaming people, fighting to breathe and thinking that the hallway carpet into which their face is getting smashed by trampling feet might be the last thing they ever see.

So if I see a scooter in the hallway, you can bet I'll be asking the owner nicely to move it, and if that fails, calling the front desk, the fire department, etc. I'm not trying to be an alarmist, but just because a risk is minute doesn't mean it isn't worth protecting against -- particularly when the consequences, if realized, could be so catastrophic.
 
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FCivish3

Member
I recently was there and stayed in 3 DW hotels. In Jambo House I saw some DW workers (looked like maintenance), in the hall, tell a patron to go ahead and park their scooter in the hall. Of course, Jambo House has those little alcovesat each door, which are probably 14 inches deep, and when scooters are parked in them the main hallway is STILL more than 48 inches wide.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I recently was there and stayed in 3 DW hotels. In Jambo House I saw some DW workers (looked like maintenance), in the hall, tell a patron to go ahead and park their scooter in the hall. Of course, Jambo House has those little alcovesat each door, which are probably 14 inches deep, and when scooters are parked in them the main hallway is STILL more than 48 inches wide.
Did you calculate the minimum required width for that particular means of egress? Door drops are not parking spaces. The path out of a room is still a means of egress that must be kept clear. If you want the IBC or NFPA to add exceptions for random employees saying it’s okay then submit them for changes to the code and prove that you are not advocating for the creation of a hazard, but until then you are wrong.
 
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iflyjetzzz

New Member
Yes, scooters can be an 'Obstacle' in the hall, though they don't really BLOCK the hall. The fire code says NO, but is this really such a problem?
Yes they do block the hall and yes it is a problem.

I don't like your suggestion that someone who needs a scooter can ignore the law.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
They got all **** when I parked my rig in the hallway and it’s not very wide. First it’s “Get out of the lobby!” Then, “You can’t park this here!” Even though a) I was out of the lobby and b) it wasn’t parked as much as it was leaning against a wall. Further, I KNOW the room whose door I was blocking was un-occupied. 1576632344598.jpeg
 

cmwade77

Active Member
Even pulled over it is still blocking the means of egress.
Not if the remaining space is at least 36" clear, then it is not considered to be blocking the egress and would be permitted to be left in the hall under fire code.

Most scooters are the same width or narrower than the housekeeping carts that get left in the hallways all the time, which also tells me that something of this width in the hallway wouldn't violate fire code. Now personally, I wouldn't leave the scooter in the hallway (unless I was going back into the room to get something I forgot quickly) for fear of it being stolen, but to each their own.

As for animals, there are service animals and additionally, some of the resorts are dog friendly. If you want to reduce the number of dogs, stick with the resorts that are not pet friendly. There will still be service animals, as they are permitted by law, just as they should be, but you will have fewer untrained dogs. If you see a service animal misbehaving and not being corrected, report it to security immediately so they can take appropriate action, but in general real service animals are well behaved and by reporting the misbehaving ones, the fakes can hopefully be weeded out.
 
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