finger scan controversy?

[Fievel]

Ok..I still don't understand. They are saying that they are only going to store the data on the system for 30 days....so how does that prevent someone from using someone elses ticket several months to a year later.

I believe it has your signature on the ticket, plus you need to show ID.

 

[MickeyTigg]

From Cory Doctorow (a huge Disney fan), I tend to agree with him:

"Disney is now fingerprinting visitors to Walt Disney World as part of its ticket-fraud prevention scheme. They're not being very transparent about it, either: there are no signs posted about the data collection or retention, and Disney's official line is that they're not collecting fingerprints, just mathematical representations of same.

But those mathematical representations are exactly what you need if you want to join up two fingerprint databases, like Disney's and the NSA's -- while the NSA may store photos of fingerprints, they work with hashes of them, using those mathematical representations to compare and sort prints. Saying that you only store the mathematical representations of a fingerprint is like saying that you only store the mathematical representations of a JPEG, not the actual paint, canvas and frame that it depicts. It's true, but it sure doesn't mean that you haven't captured something important.

Now that our national immune system has begun to attack us in a terrible anaphylactic spasm -- indiscriminate NSA wiretaps, meaningless TSA security theater, secret aviation rules and no-fly lists, "free speech zones," suspension of habeas corpus and all the rest -- it's absolutely irresponsible to gather this kind of information and leave it where the savage toddlers of the national security apparat might find it and wreak havoc with it.

For me, the worst part of this is that it conditions us to get used to being treated like crooks. If you were asked for a fingerprint when you bought a doughnut, you'd rightly leave the store. Why should an amusement park get a walk?"

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/09/01/walt_disney_world_fi.html

And could everyone please stop bagging on the ACLU, while you may not agree with them on all their policies, you have to remember that they're fighting for the rights of all Americans, regardless of whether they agree with them or not, and if they budged a tiny bit on a single issue, it would compromise their entire mission.

Oh brother....where to start...oh nevermind...it's not worth the agravation....I'm going to argue with the wall, I'll have better luck making it see reason and logic.

:lookaroun

 

[SGT623]

Typical of the ACLU. They hollar and screem when its over nothing, but let someone try to do some real harm to someone, they are nowhere to be found. Bunch of do-nothings if you ask me.

LOL

 

[Enderikari]

I guess I just look back to when you could share your multi-day tickets with friends and family, and to me the whole finger scan so you can't share or sell the tickets that you have already paid for is greedy.

No... there have never been those days. WDW tickets have ALWAYS been, by law, non-transferable(its printed on the ticket). By oassing on tickets to others, you were violating state law in Florida. Anybody who sells used tickets on E-Bay, or out of some trailer on 192, is breaking the law. Anyone who lets there brother, friend, neighbor, or dog use left over days on their tickets, is BREAKING THE LAW. and always has been. Disney recognizes this as a problem, but has always kind of looked the other way, though if you made it obvious, Disney would confiscate those tickets (look at the top of your ticket, see the word "revocable?")

Now, however, with the Magic Your Way system, scammers and thieves who would give unused days to others have even more reason to lick their lips in anticipation. Add another day for only $2? You can't be serious? Really? Think of all the people who can benefit from one scammers ticket. Scam artists would rack up, buying additional days, then selling them out. A business that has really never been more than a nagging few jerks would become a huge pain in the ...., thorn in Disney's side.
So, suffice it to say, I am not saying that Disney can do no wrong, but they are not in the wrong to demand a non-unique, untraceable, non-human readable string of numbers to ensure that you are you, and that the law is being followed.

 

[Scar Junior]

Oh brother....where to start...oh nevermind...it's not worth the agravation....I'm going to argue with the wall, I'll have better luck making it see reason and logic.

:lookaroun

Bravo!

One of the smartest things I've read in months!

PS. I love the fact that in his first sentence he called it one of Disney's "schemes," a term that is loaded with sinsiter implications. Regardless of reason for choosing this word, the psychologically loaded term can't help but draw up notions of deeper intentions (that the Disney company may have). It is saturated with spin. He must be a journalist!!! :lol: Where else would someone learn the tricks of such semiotics?!

 

[Scar Junior]

No... there have never been those days. WDW tickets have ALWAYS been, by law, non-transferable(its printed on the ticket). By oassing on tickets to others, you were violating state law in Florida. Anybody who sells used tickets on E-Bay, or out of some trailer on 192, is breaking the law. Anyone who lets there brother, friend, neighbor, or dog use left over days on their tickets, is BREAKING THE LAW. and always has been. Disney recognizes this as a problem, but has always kind of looked the other way, though if you made it obvious, Disney would confiscate those tickets (look at the top of your ticket, see the word "revocable?")

Now, however, with the Magic Your Way system, scammers and thieves who would give unused days to others have even more reason to lick their lips in anticipation. Add another day for only $2? You can't be serious? Really? Think of all the people who can benefit from one scammers ticket. Scam artists would rack up, buying additional days, then selling them out. A business that has really never been more than a nagging few jerks would become a huge pain in the ...., thorn in Disney's side.
So, suffice it to say, I am not saying that Disney can do no wrong, but they are not in the wrong to demand a non-unique, untraceable, non-human readable string of numbers to ensure that you are you, and that the law is being followed.

I am not going to go so far as to say that I have violated Florida law... but I do remember in the 90s when it was easier for people to use their family members' tickets. Heck, even the one-day hopper passes that weren't sold to the public could have been (not saying I, or anyone I know, did :lookaroun ) given away or sold...

EDIT: Though it is idealistic, I do see where the guy from Fargo (Steve) is coming from.

 

[Master Yoda]

Ok..I still don't understand. They are saying that they are only going to store the data on the system for 30 days....so how does that prevent someone from using someone elses ticket several months to a year later.

The information is stored for up to 30 days after the ticket expires not just 30 days after first use.

 

[NeedABreak]

What an incredibly narrow-minded view of the ACLU. Is "mainstream America" really this ignorant?

I guess we are.

Look, my opinion on the ACLU is bassed on who and what they go to court for. People tell me that they are just defending the unpopular side in the interest of fairness and I can see the need for an organization that does that, but they just take it to another level.

Also I didn't say anything against you so why do you feel the need to insult me? Disagree with me all day long but don't start the name calling. You'll end up getting the thread locked.

 

[Master Yoda]

No... there have never been those days. WDW tickets have ALWAYS been, by law, non-transferable(its printed on the ticket). By oassing on tickets to others, you were violating state law in Florida. Anybody who sells used tickets on E-Bay, or out of some trailer on 192, is breaking the law. Anyone who lets there brother, friend, neighbor, or dog use left over days on their tickets, is BREAKING THE LAW. and always has been. Disney recognizes this as a problem, but has always kind of looked the other way, though if you made it obvious, Disney would confiscate those tickets (look at the top of your ticket, see the word "revocable?")

Now, however, with the Magic Your Way system, scammers and thieves who would give unused days to others have even more reason to lick their lips in anticipation. Add another day for only $2? You can't be serious? Really? Think of all the people who can benefit from one scammers ticket. Scam artists would rack up, buying additional days, then selling them out. A business that has really never been more than a nagging few jerks would become a huge pain in the ...., thorn in Disney's side.
So, suffice it to say, I am not saying that Disney can do no wrong, but they are not in the wrong to demand a non-unique, untraceable, non-human readable string of numbers to ensure that you are you, and that the law is being followed.

You are exactly right. Disney had no choice but to implement some kind of undetectable and unalterable ticket ID system when the MYW pricing structure came out. I to remember the days of every ticket being a no expiration ticket that was manually stamped on each day of use. If you had a six day ticket with a couple of days left on it you could give or sell it to anyone and they could use it without an issue. There were kiosks set up in nearly every hotel Orlando that bought and sold these tickets. While illegal Disney looked the other way because they did not loose enough money to worry about it. I confess back in the early ninety's I purchased these myself on more than one occasion.

Now with very aggressive multi day discounts and a world wide market place available to the average Joe thanks to e-bay something had to be done. If the old no ID no expiration tickets still existed every guest would by a 10 day ticket and then sell the remaining days on e-bay and Disney would loose out on millions.

 

[Baums101]

What are they doing that is wrong? Looks like somebody who just wants to try to bring down Disney.

 

[Enderikari]

Heck, even the one-day hopper passes that weren't sold to the public could have been (not saying I, or anyone I know, did :lookaroun ) given away or sold...

Big bold letters on the back of said "Not For Sale" comp tickets... "May not be bartered, nor exchanged for goods, services, or benefits."

I have seen situations where Cast Members, or former cast members have been fired for selling these tickets, or giving them away for products. The cast members name is printed on the tickets for just that reason, a simply asked question of "So, where did you get these tickets?" can lead to a world of trouble.

 

[opshannon]

I guess we are.

Look, my opinion on the ACLU is bassed on who and what they go to court for. People tell me that they are just defending the unpopular side in the interest of fairness and I can see the need for an organization that does that, but they just take it to another level.

Also I didn't say anything against you so why do you feel the need to insult me? Disagree with me all day long but don't start the name calling. You'll end up getting the thread locked.

This is your reaction when someone uses the phrase "ignorant narrow-minded view" but you post no rebuff to:

Originally Posted by NJDVCMembers

One final note...

SCREW the ACLU!!!

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah!!!


Hypocrisy never ceases to amaze. :brick:

 

[JimboJones123]

This is your reaction when someone uses the phrase "ignorant narrow-minded view" but you post no rebuff to:

Originally Posted by NJDVCMembers

One final note...

SCREW the ACLU!!!

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah!!!


Hypocrisy never ceases to amaze. :brick:

Really, you created a fake membership just to say that? Oh boy.

 

[opshannon]

Really, you created a fake membership just to say that? Oh boy.

My join date is earlier than yours. I just don't spend my life here posting. Think before you type, captain!:hammer:

 

[Unplugged]

As with the majority of tourists from the UK, Europe and the rest of the world now I get to give the US government my photo and finger prints when I land at the airport or I don't get into the US. I trust Disney more.

Agreed. I live in this country and I too trust Disney more! They're just protecting their assets and business.

If the US government wants my info, they'll get it. It'll cost them a lot more than it costs Disney, will take twice as long, and won;t work as well, but they'll get it. :hammer:Of course...they may already have it and are watching me type this right now....:lookaroun...I better get going.

 

[CThaddeus]

I guess we are.

Look, my opinion on the ACLU is bassed on who and what they go to court for. People tell me that they are just defending the unpopular side in the interest of fairness and I can see the need for an organization that does that, but they just take it to another level.

Also I didn't say anything against you so why do you feel the need to insult me? Disagree with me all day long but don't start the name calling. You'll end up getting the thread locked.

I see. It's okay for you and others to make statements along the lines of how the ACLU doesn't represent mainstream America, as if you speak for all of it. It's also okay for you to tell us where the line should be drawn in defending those whose rights are being trampled on. Maybe you don't agree with everyone they defend. So be it. Maybe you don't agree with everything they do. Again, your right (and they would defend it in a court of law if it came to that. Remember that). In these cases, they're really no different than a court-appointed attourney who has to defend someone, even if they know without a doubt that the person is guilty. It's their job to defend civil liberties, and while I too sometimes disagree with someone they might be representing, I believe that the ACLU should defend their right to whatever it is that is being denied them.
Now, go back to my original post. I was asking a rhetorical question based on your response (and other similar ones) that made a couple of gross generalizations - "will of the people" and "against mainstream America." If you really still feel their actions are both of those statements, then you are showing an ignorance and a narrow-mindedness, as well as a heavy dose of egotism to think that your opinion is THE opinion. Just the same, I don't think mine is the only opinion, either. But to speak so harshly about an organization that does so much good indicates to me you really need to find out more about what they actually do. The media tends to report only the "out there" cases; they often ignore the day-to-day good the ACLU does do.
I personally have never felt that "middle America" IS ignorant. But, again, you chose to respond for everyone by saying "I guess we are." I did call your view narrow-minded, though. And I'll stand by that statement. I did not call you narrow-minded as a whole...just this one particular view. I'm that way too about some things, but at least I can recognize that about myself and hopefully grow from it. I should have included others' quotes along with yours, just to show I wasn't simply aiming my statement at you.