flynnibus
Premium Member
Mad dash for a piece of paper... because if you don't get it.. you won't at all..
or dash to get on a ride with a shorter line?
Somehow.. I don't see them as equivalent.
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FastPass+ open to all guests including offsite beginning next week at Disney's Animal Kingdom
- Thread starter wdwmagic
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Mad dash for a piece of paper... because if you don't get it.. you won't at all..
or dash to get on a ride with a shorter line?
Somehow.. I don't see them as equivalent.
I'm here right now, the park is not dead, I would say it is average attendance.
FP+ for non resort guests seems to be working very well so far. Surprisingly the kiosks and cast are coping well.
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Ok minimal... average.... still not a true test... in 2 hours? Nope... let's see when the park is really busy... Obviously really busy does not apply today... Busy will be the true test....
Disneyfamily4
Well-Known Member
There would be enough fast pass options, being they are including shows, parades and fireworks along with the rides for fast pass. My guess would be that park hopper would be included as well. No more one day one park reservations.
msteel
Well-Known Member
Well, considering that the piece of paper represents a ride with a shorter line, seems pretty equivalent to me. Not getting the paper doesn't mean you can't do the ride, it just means you have to wait longer.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Pre FastPass: Mad dash to get on ride with shorter line.
Post FastPass: Mad dash to get on ride with shorter line AND mad dash to get FP for shorter line later.
FP did not eliminate the first mad dash; only supplement it with a second mad dash.
There still are plenty that mad dash to get on a ride first thing so they can maximize the number of attractions they ride per day.
What, you don't run over to Soarin' to get a FP there and then sprint across the park to join your family while the line's still short at Test Track?
Or, run over to TSM to get a FP there and then sprint across the park to join your family at RnRC?
I can't be the only one who does that.
ChrisM
Well-Known Member
Per TouringPlans, the predicted resort-wide crowd level for today is a 5 and Animal Kingdom is a 4. That said, they predicted yesterday to be a crowd level of 4 at Animal Kingdom and measured it as an actual of 5.
Point being, an observation of average attendance today is probably about right.
Gone are the days of:
"You just won the Super Bowl! What are you going to do next!?!"
"I'm going to Disney World!"
Now, the appropriate response would be:
"I'm going to book my Walt Disney World Resort vacation to begin in 6 months, so I can give myself adequate time to book ride and dining reservations for a vacation that begins in half-a-year, and I can upgrade my smart phone so I can take advantage of the app required to make changes to my reservations using sub-par in-park wifi. On second thought, NFL training camp will already have begun by then...so instead I will just go to Disneyland next week."
"You just won the Super Bowl! What are you going to do next!?!"
"I'm going to Disney World!"
Now, the appropriate response would be:
"I'm going to book my Walt Disney World Resort vacation to begin in 6 months, so I can give myself adequate time to book ride and dining reservations for a vacation that begins in half-a-year, and I can upgrade my smart phone so I can take advantage of the app required to make changes to my reservations using sub-par in-park wifi. On second thought, NFL training camp will already have begun by then...so instead I will just go to Disneyland next week."
Cesar R M
Well-Known Member
It will then evolve into :
"I will need to get to the university to get my required PhD in statistics and management, so I can start using and booking my walt disney world resort reservation with the Parks in an effective way"
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Recon443
Active Member
I see so the validity of opinions are based on the length of time one has been on the board. Question: Had I bashed the MB system, how would this have been received?
Recon443
Active Member
In response:
"Your post here proves you do not understand or comprehend how things work..."
Actually that would be you who does not understand how things work. You have a s ensue of how you want them to work, how you wish they would work, but lack an understanding of how they actually do work.
"1) It is not 5 instances... it is way more than 5... Do you really believe these problems occurred just 5 times since they started testing, to one person?"
You cited five as your evidence. What else am I to go off of?
"2) You have to use EVERYONE the issues happened to... PEOPLE are the data, not the issue... So while there may only be 5 issues (there are a lot more but regardless), you have to multiply those 5 issues by the amount of people the issues are happening to... again, WAY more than 5..."
Agreed. But since you only provided five instances, then I based my numbers off of that. But since you brought it up, how many issues have there been to all people? You seem to know this, so please provide it.
"3) While I was there in October, I did not stand there to count how many people were in line at Guest Relations at a time, during the course of the entire day... Nor did I take pictures cause I didn't bring a camera with me, and couldn't be bothered using my phone cam... I can tell you I witnessed lines out the door during any given hour during any given day..."
So in essence you can only speak about the small window of time that you actually witnessed the line. And you really don't know what each and every person was in line for, now do you?
"4) Most Guest Relations CMs are dealing with ALL issues including MB, but there are Cms assigned just for MB/FP+ issues... if things were perfect and not failing, the extra CMs would not be needed... But increased failures/problems lead to increase guest complaints leads to increased CM numbers to handle the increased complaints... Again, just common sense showing this is failing and not working..."
So if all CM's are dealing with with all issues not just MB issues, then you cant't really say how many MB issues they are dealing with, now can you?
"5) Again, I personally know 15-20 people (be they friends, family, co-workers) who have had major issues with this system since the summer.... Those are just the people I know... and yes, I know, a small number... But, increase that by the number of people on this forum who are having/had issues times the number of people not on this forum but on other forums having/had issues times the number of people who do not post ion any forum (just members of the general public) who are having/had issues... And you'll see how wrong you are by saying only 5 instances... It is WAY MORE THAN 5..."
So how many more than 5? You are convinced by 5 or 15. I need more than that. Tell me how many people have had problems? You admit it is a small number of people who have issues yet still declare it an overall disaster? Strange. How many posters have posted about problems? Out of how many? And how many of those posts are like yours, declaring failure based on opinion? And how many have been simply speculation of failure posts?
"6) During my last trip, while out to dinner with my CM friend, she brought along a few of her CM friends... Nice people i must say... 3 of them were Gust relations CMs, 2 worked in attractions, one was a character.. My friend is in food/beverage... the 3 GR CMs all complained about their job, how complaints have increased since MM+ and FP+ testing began... How the numbers of complaints are increasing on a daily and weekly basis... Did I ask for hard numbers? No... No need too... Why? Cause an increase is an increase, and any increase in complaints is not good... And all the complaints were about the system failing... Not glitches... if it happens to one person, one time: glitch... But when it happens to MANY people over MANY months, and is not fixed, that is a failure..."
How many cast members are there at WDW. You had dinner with 6 out of how many? And from that you have deduced that complaints have increased? They say there are more? How many more? How much has it increased? And what are the nature of the complaints?
"7)During my most recent unMAGICial trip, and my last to WDW, I witnessed increased stand by lines for rides which are ALWAYS walk on, all while crowds were low... The parks were not crowded at all, so the only explanation is FP+... Pirates had a 40 minute wait... For Pirates? Why? FP+... HM posted a 20 minute wait time, but was actually closer to 45 minutes... again, why? Not because the park was crowded... Because FP+... Increased stand by lines is a failure... Pictures? No... But look at what Parentsof4 posted... He took pictures of increased FP lines... FP lines should NEVER have a huge wait... Now they do... Failure..."
Uh probably not, but you go right ahead and believe that. How does a system that allows for scheduled times increase standby lines? That would be interesting to know.
In general, my post to you indicates the most obvious fact of all, you really don't know what is going on. You do not have evidence of failure only a few stories from a small audience and no observations of merit to denote failure. All I am pointing out to you is that, you really don't know what is failure or success because you lack evidence.
"Your post here proves you do not understand or comprehend how things work..."
Actually that would be you who does not understand how things work. You have a s ensue of how you want them to work, how you wish they would work, but lack an understanding of how they actually do work.
"1) It is not 5 instances... it is way more than 5... Do you really believe these problems occurred just 5 times since they started testing, to one person?"
You cited five as your evidence. What else am I to go off of?
"2) You have to use EVERYONE the issues happened to... PEOPLE are the data, not the issue... So while there may only be 5 issues (there are a lot more but regardless), you have to multiply those 5 issues by the amount of people the issues are happening to... again, WAY more than 5..."
Agreed. But since you only provided five instances, then I based my numbers off of that. But since you brought it up, how many issues have there been to all people? You seem to know this, so please provide it.
"3) While I was there in October, I did not stand there to count how many people were in line at Guest Relations at a time, during the course of the entire day... Nor did I take pictures cause I didn't bring a camera with me, and couldn't be bothered using my phone cam... I can tell you I witnessed lines out the door during any given hour during any given day..."
So in essence you can only speak about the small window of time that you actually witnessed the line. And you really don't know what each and every person was in line for, now do you?
"4) Most Guest Relations CMs are dealing with ALL issues including MB, but there are Cms assigned just for MB/FP+ issues... if things were perfect and not failing, the extra CMs would not be needed... But increased failures/problems lead to increase guest complaints leads to increased CM numbers to handle the increased complaints... Again, just common sense showing this is failing and not working..."
So if all CM's are dealing with with all issues not just MB issues, then you cant't really say how many MB issues they are dealing with, now can you?
"5) Again, I personally know 15-20 people (be they friends, family, co-workers) who have had major issues with this system since the summer.... Those are just the people I know... and yes, I know, a small number... But, increase that by the number of people on this forum who are having/had issues times the number of people not on this forum but on other forums having/had issues times the number of people who do not post ion any forum (just members of the general public) who are having/had issues... And you'll see how wrong you are by saying only 5 instances... It is WAY MORE THAN 5..."
So how many more than 5? You are convinced by 5 or 15. I need more than that. Tell me how many people have had problems? You admit it is a small number of people who have issues yet still declare it an overall disaster? Strange. How many posters have posted about problems? Out of how many? And how many of those posts are like yours, declaring failure based on opinion? And how many have been simply speculation of failure posts?
"6) During my last trip, while out to dinner with my CM friend, she brought along a few of her CM friends... Nice people i must say... 3 of them were Gust relations CMs, 2 worked in attractions, one was a character.. My friend is in food/beverage... the 3 GR CMs all complained about their job, how complaints have increased since MM+ and FP+ testing began... How the numbers of complaints are increasing on a daily and weekly basis... Did I ask for hard numbers? No... No need too... Why? Cause an increase is an increase, and any increase in complaints is not good... And all the complaints were about the system failing... Not glitches... if it happens to one person, one time: glitch... But when it happens to MANY people over MANY months, and is not fixed, that is a failure..."
How many cast members are there at WDW. You had dinner with 6 out of how many? And from that you have deduced that complaints have increased? They say there are more? How many more? How much has it increased? And what are the nature of the complaints?
"7)During my most recent unMAGICial trip, and my last to WDW, I witnessed increased stand by lines for rides which are ALWAYS walk on, all while crowds were low... The parks were not crowded at all, so the only explanation is FP+... Pirates had a 40 minute wait... For Pirates? Why? FP+... HM posted a 20 minute wait time, but was actually closer to 45 minutes... again, why? Not because the park was crowded... Because FP+... Increased stand by lines is a failure... Pictures? No... But look at what Parentsof4 posted... He took pictures of increased FP lines... FP lines should NEVER have a huge wait... Now they do... Failure..."
Uh probably not, but you go right ahead and believe that. How does a system that allows for scheduled times increase standby lines? That would be interesting to know.
In general, my post to you indicates the most obvious fact of all, you really don't know what is going on. You do not have evidence of failure only a few stories from a small audience and no observations of merit to denote failure. All I am pointing out to you is that, you really don't know what is failure or success because you lack evidence.
I think that you are completely valid by stating that you had a good experience with MM+ and the MBs. As with all things, how well something works is partially in the eye of the beholder. You had a good experience, which is great. I personally am happy it worked well for you.
My problem (among many) is that many others are having a bad experience. A highly-rated restaurant where some have great food and others end up being served poor quality food is unacceptable. A good restaurant always NEEDS to be the best they can be. "Off-nights" don't occur in great restaurants, and if they do, guests are compensated. Or a dryclearner who gets some stuff just right but destroys some others' belongings. That is unacceptable. A service provider always needs to provide the same level of service. Disney is such that it can't have the attitude that is ok to do right by some and not by others. Does that make sense? My personal experience with MM+ and the MBs was terrible, and I am not going to be returning to WDW for some time because of it. For the price we pay Disney, they aren't allowed to have "off nights" or anything like that. They always need to be on their A-Game. Always. MM+ was not Disney's A-Game, nor were the MBs able to enhance my enjoyment of my October visit. Quite the opposite.
Let me put it this way. Back in 2010, American Airlines was rolling out first class cabins on some of their American Eagle regional aircraft (on their CRJ-700 fleet to be precise). The first class seats were available for purchase from, I believe, July 1 onward. However, in June of 2010 they began first class service onboard the flights, and you could choose first class seats for coach ticket prices, so the flight attendants could practice serving food and drinks, and delivering a premium service. They didn't sell first class seats during that month - it was all still being sold as coach. I was able to fly American Eagle between DCA and ORD, sit in first class, get the premium treatment - all on a coach ticket. Why? Because American wanted to have their flight attendants practice before they officially rolled something out - because it wouldn't have been their A-Game while they were practicing. I was a guinea pig for American, and they rewarded my by not charging me for the first class ticket (over the coach prices).
Disney has done the opposite. They are getting on the job training, at the expense of many guest experiences...all while continuing to increase ticket prices. What did I get out of their gaining experience for MM+? Nothing except a bad experience. I got no benefit out of helping WDW gain data and experience. As a consumer, that disappoints me. MM+ isn't the A-Game we expect from WDW. There is a systematic issue with guest experiences regarding MM+ and MBs. For a company like Disney, and a premium experience like WDW, that is unacceptable.
Anything less than Disney's A-Game is a failure.
Recon443
Active Member
Not happy with the service? Not returning? A perfectly reasonable approach in my mind.
However, and as you know, you are one of many who also used the system during the time frame that you were there. My POV is that it can not be declared a 'disaster' based on a single experience, anymore then can it be claimed to be a 'success' based on a single experience.
Just of curiosity, how many people used the system and had an "A Game" experience the day you were there? Let's assume it was one person. Does your negative experience trump their positive one?
I started out by saying I used the system and it worked wonderfully for me. And that was a problem on this board. I simply question the 'facts' of failure. And that is also a problem on this board.
That you are unhappy and were not compensated in some way does not indicate system failure either. It just indicates your unhappiness at not being compensated. I too have been unhappy at many stages of my life but I also know that people are people, systems are systems designed by people, and some days we are better than others. Can you imagine a world where not being at your individual 'A' game everyday was punished? So you nodded off at a meeting, so you are off the project. You stayed up late and are ten minutes late, so your customers abandon your place of business. There are only two things I think must be failure proof, nuclear weapons and brain surgery. Now those are guys that need to be on their 'A' games far and above a dry cleaners or restaurant. Yet we see problems in both areas. I tend to understand that we all have good days and bad ones.
Disneyfamily4
Well-Known Member
Testing and results from Sept - Feb, does not mean much. The Crowds are manageable at these times and the glitches are easily worked out. What Disney Chief Iger said himself is that he is worried about the real crowds from March - July. So from March through July, that is when we will know for sure how the testing is going.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
2 hours is actually a long sample size for this place. How many things have been deemed a complete failure before they were even rolled out?
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Handing out the papers to guests as they arrive is just a way to communicate to guests what to expect when they get inside and where to go. It's the equivalent of building a bridge and then hanging some signs to tell drivers what lane they need to be in to cross the bridge.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Ahhh...a voice a reason in this madness.
When you are a company that is built around delivering an incredible guest experience, and an initiative like MM+ not only doesn't enhance my experience, it makes it worse. Then yes, it is a failure. It didn't enhance my visit. It didn't make my visit of the same quality as pre-MM+. It was a lesser experience for a higher cost. That is a failure. It may be a fixable problem, but when guests have a worse experience than if you (Disney) had done nothing, that's a failure.
I am about to rideRadiator Springs Racers for the first time. And somehow, the lack of MM+ andMBs isn't hurting my experience here in SoCal.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Actually, I think the paper is more about getting the guests thinking about their FP+ selections before they get to the kiosks or to the CMs.
It's like handing out menus at a restaurant to those on the waiting list. It gives them something to do while waiting and makes placing their orders more efficient, allowing for quicker table turnover.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
Well, we have to assume that Day of reservations will ultimately be on smart phones, right? If that's not ready and they want to test the actual capacity of it this is a decent work around.