FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[MurphyJoe]

Wait times across the parks will not increase with implementing a paid system unless Disney also increases the amount of passes being issued (and right now it doesn't sound like they're planning to). Here's the average wait times two years ago when FP+ was in place for MK: https://touringplans.com/magic-kingdom/wait-times/date/2019-06-02 . Even without paying for priority access, having a good plan of attack is going to keep wait times down daily. And without one, there's still not going to be an hour or two waits excluding peak times at headline attractions.

 

[James J]

I for one am not paying to go to Boo Bash but I would pay for FP+.
Boo Bash isn't even offering low wait times unless so few people buy that not that many people are there which you know is not the case because people go crazy for these events. Especially the vloggers who basically make money off of the event.
If there were real parades, shows, fireworks, and meet n greets like there were for MNSSHP the wait times would be lower. I personally go to these types of events mostly for atmosphere and low wait times while everyone else does the shows etc. Now everyone will be going for the atmosphere and low wait times that there will be no low wait times.

Boo Bash is an After Hours style event, not a Party night. That should mean low wait times as the number of tickets sold will be limited, and it is being marketed as such.

 

[havoc315]

I for one am not paying to go to Boo Bash but I would pay for FP+.
Boo Bash isn't even offering low wait times unless so few people buy that not that many people are there which you know is not the case because people go crazy for these events. Especially the vloggers who basically make money off of the event.

If they cap attendance similar to After Hours events, then wait times are indeed very very low.
If they allow MNSSH type ticket sales, then wait times would not be low at all.

If there were real parades, shows, fireworks, and meet n greets like there were for MNSSHP the wait times would be lower. I personally go to these types of events mostly for atmosphere and low wait times while everyone else does the shows etc. Now everyone will be going for the atmosphere and low wait times that there will be no low wait times.

Wait times tend to be lower for these late night events, as opposed to regular parties.

It's a combination of 2 factors:
1 -- They cap sales for after-hours events lower than they cap them for parties
2 -- Even without a cap, the hours themselves self-limit ticket sales. Lots of families will pay for a 6pm-11pm party. But fewer families are going to want to pay a huge price for an event that STARTS at 9pm, which may already be later than the kid's bed time.

Must like regular night-time EMH, back when they had it. Back when they would do 9pm-midnight EMH... It was still quite crowded at 9pm, but pretty empty by 11pm.

 

[havoc315]

@G00fyDad you're spot on! The Boo Bash comparison makes no sense. The folks that go to Boo Bash are a specific crowd that know what they are doing and doing it for one night. The fraction of people attending that event is tiny compared to how many go the rest of the year. Riding on rides is not an event. It is part of the trip itself.

Once people realize and see the lines getting to 1-2 hours and having to make a choice between that or spending an extra $3000 or more on their trip, things are going to get very wonky very fast.

So the point of paid FP is the EXACT SAME as boo bash. The Fraction of people paying $200 to skip the lines is tiny compared to the total number of guests. THAT'S THE POINT! That's what makes a paid FP system work!!!!

There are families currently paying $2,000 for "VIP tours" which aren't really tours -- They are just line skipping.

 

[SoupBone]

I received a shocked reaction from the legendary @marni1971. We can only opine based on our own feelings and experiences, and mine simply don’t line up with what many (most?) here are saying. Contrary to the declinist timeline that prevails in the forum, my last set of visits to WDW—between 2017 and early 2020—were far more enjoyable than the trips I took in 1991, 1996, and 2001. Perhaps I won’t feel the same when I return (the replacements being discussed for FP+ don’t sound at all appealing), but as of February 2020, which is when I last went, I can honestly say that the cost of a WDW trip was, for me at least, well worth it. It’s a unique kind of magic that one can’t get elsewhere—for any price.

I've been to WDW roughly 25 times since the mid-80's. My favorite trip was August 2020. Wanna know why? There was no one there and we rode every ride with almost no lines. And I mean NO LINES. Peter Pan was a walk-on ride. Space Mountain allowed us to stay on the ride without getting off because no one was waiting to get on. It was absolutely magical and sad, all things considered.

 

[marni1971]

Space Mountain allowed us to stay on the ride without getting off

You rode from unload to load?

 

[Willmark]

I’d be “fine” with paying for fast passes with caveats:
1. Unlimited. None of this three a day crap being bandied about.

2. Wait time. I’m not waiting 20 minutes in a “Fast” line. I don’t care if standby is 2 hours. I’m paying not to wait, not “less” of a wait.

3. No tiers or blocks like the current that limits the stuff people really want with offering the ones people don’t. You know like FastPass+ was/is.

4. Cost. I gladly pay for the top pass at Cedar Point, the rides are worth with little to no wait. Disney? Sorry even the coasters aren’t worth a 1/2 hour wait, certainly not 2+ hours.

5. WDW guests staying on prem only. Has to be some benefits to Disney’s insane level of pricing for hotels.

With that said, cost? If it’s $300 no, the rides aren’t worth it IMO. If it’s $200 still a bit high, the rides still aren’t worth it at that price either.

To me, $150 is about right but it can’t have any of the restrictions. If they do no go for me.

As always YMMV.

 

[LittleBuford]

I've been to WDW roughly 25 times since the mid-80's. My favorite trip was August 2020. Wanna know why? There was no one there and we rode every ride with almost no lines. And I mean NO LINES. Peter Pan was a walk-on ride. Space Mountain allowed us to stay on the ride without getting off because no one was waiting to get on. It was absolutely magical and sad, all things considered.

Touring an empty theme park at the height of a global pandemic sounds quite depressing and unmagical to me. The crowds have never bothered me; now more than ever, I miss them.

 

[StarshipDisney]

Has to be some benefits to Disney’s insane level of pricing for hotels.

That is for sure!

 

[SoupBone]

You rode from unload to load?

Now that you say that, no, I don't think we did. We might have just stepped out then bypassed the line. I just remember it being zero wait for Space mountain and basically all E-Ticket rides. The masks were no fun in August, but that trip with no lines can never be replicated. It was as if we had the parks to ourselves. Lots of missing stuff though, no meet and greets (which I never did anyway), some restaurants not open, quick services was sporadic, but still the experience was fun.

 

[marni1971]

Now that you say that, no, I don't think we did. We might have just stepped out then bypassed the line. I just remember it being zero wait for Space mountain and basically all E-Ticket rides. The masks were no fun in August, but that trip with no lines can never be replicated. It was as if we had the parks to ourselves. Lots of missing stuff though, no meet and greets (which I never did anyway), some restaurants not open, quick services was sporadic, but still the experience was fun.

That would make sense

We did DLP last September and had a similar experience to you with the park.

 

[havoc315]

I’d be “fine” with paying for fast passes with caveats:
1. Unlimited. None of this three a day crap being bandied about.

2. Wait time. I’m not waiting 20 minutes in a “Fast” line. I don’t care if standby is 2 hours. I’m paying not to wait, not “less” of a wait.

3. No tiers or blocks like the current that limits the stuff people really want with offering the ones people don’t. You know like FastPass+ was/is.

4. Cost. I gladly pay for the top pass at Cedar Point, the rides are worth with little to no wait. Disney? Sorry even the coasters aren’t worth a 1/2 hour wait, certainly not 2+ hours.

5. WDW guests staying on prem only. Has to be some benefits to Disney’s insane level of pricing for hotels.

With that said, cost? If it’s $300 no, the rides aren’t worth it IMO. If it’s $200 still a bit high, the rides still aren’t worth it at that price either.

To me, $150 is about right but it can’t have any of the restrictions. If they do no go for me.

As always YMMV.

So especially number 2 is directly tied to number 4, which may also be tired to 1 and 3.

As we have seen, a "free FP" results in the requirement of tiers, limits, and with some wait time as well. The results would be similar with a "cheap" FP.

The higher you raise the price, the easier it is to often "unlimited" and "no wait."

I have no idea what Disney will do, which path they will take, but I can foresee a couple possible directions:

Something truly "unlimited" with virtually no tiers, etc.... Would be expensive. Minimum of $120 per day, during off-peak periods. (though may be less in certain parks, etc). Easily $200-$300 plus during peak periods.

Or they may go the route, hinted by Marni, of "packs" -- Buy a "Fantasy Land" Pack of 3 rides. Or buy the "3 Classic Mountains." Not sure how this would work in other parks, with fewer attractions to pack together. Guess you could do a "Star Wars adventure packs" of Star Tours + Smuggler's Run + Launch Bay character meet (if it returns). And a "Toy Story" pack.
Really hard to put together any packs at Epcot until more stuff opens.

But anyway... these "3 ride packs" -- or something along those lines, I doubt they would command the same high prices. A speculative guess.... I can see 3-ride packs selling for $40-$75 per pack.

And finally, something where we have guidance -- Disney did offer paid FPs to Concierge guests. Basically regular FPs, choose any ride. But no tiers. They were offered at $50 for a pack of 3, with a minimum purchase of 3 days.
So that's where I would put the basement of pricing: Minimum of $16 per fastpass.

 

[Willmark]

So especially number 2 is directly tied to number 4, which may also be tired to 1 and 3.

As we have seen, a "free FP" results in the requirement of tiers, limits, and with some wait time as well. The results would be similar with a "cheap" FP.

The higher you raise the price, the easier it is to often "unlimited" and "no wait."

I have no idea what Disney will do, which path they will take, but I can foresee a couple possible directions:

Something truly "unlimited" with virtually no tiers, etc.... Would be expensive. Minimum of $120 per day, during off-peak periods. (though may be less in certain parks, etc). Easily $200-$300 plus during peak periods.

Or they may go the route, hinted by Marni, of "packs" -- Buy a "Fantasy Land" Pack of 3 rides. Or buy the "3 Classic Mountains." Not sure how this would work in other parks, with fewer attractions to pack together. Guess you could do a "Star Wars adventure packs" of Star Tours + Smuggler's Run + Launch Bay character meet (if it returns). And a "Toy Story" pack.
Really hard to put together any packs at Epcot until more stuff opens.

But anyway... these "3 ride packs" -- or something along those lines, I doubt they would command the same high prices. A speculative guess.... I can see 3-ride packs selling for $40-$75 per pack.

And finally, something where we have guidance -- Disney did offer paid FPs to Concierge guests. Basically regular FPs, choose any ride. But no tiers. They were offered at $50 for a pack of 3, with a minimum purchase of 3 days.
So that's where I would put the basement of pricing: Minimum of $16 per fastpass.

It’s possible. All good points.

Further thoughts based on your comments.

What Disney needs to decide is if they are premium or not. They price it like it’s premium, that’s for sure. But in reality? No way.

In terms of cost for the Willmark clan to go on an average stay that’s adding $5600 to our trip above what we would normally pay (4 of us assuming a 7 day stay at $200 a day for a unlimited hypothetical fast pass).

Again it comes back to value: for us, I’m not paying for Disney’s rides because to me they just aren’t worth it $ wise. In this case I’m paying money solely to not stand in line. At that rate there had better be zero wait time and none of the restrictions I mentioned.

I imagine there are some that would think that’s unfair yet if we (and others) can afford to do it? I think it’s unfair that I don’t make as much money as Jeff Bezos.

Point I’m making is that Disney likes to have it both ways, charge a premium and at the same time try to making it welcoming budget wise (certainly not so much anymore) for others. In that case it ends up pleasing no one. Life isn’t fair in some regards.

Then there is the added PR issue of such a move: imagine you’re in standby and you know that all those people zipping through paid more for the privilege not to wait. I don’t think they want to address/have you deal with the fallout of that.

Im not sure there would be any other answer than It’s a fact (whether people like it or not) that not everyone makes the same amount of money, see my comment on Bezos above.

 

[acup313]

My family is essentially who Fastpass + was targeted at. We only visit every 2-3 years, but we stay for longer trips. Due to the infrequency of our visits it is hard for us to justify waiting more than an hour for any ride. With Fastpass + we could ensure that we would get to do every ride at least once. Like many others we often would get 10-15 passes per day. This wasn't me constantly being on my phone either. Once I was in a line I would just check for our next pass. Sometimes I would refresh once or twice, but usually had no trouble finding something we wanted to. We were also the people that while we weren't waiting in lines we were in the shops buying stuff.

For us having some sort of Fastpass system makes our trips go way better, so I really hope they put something in place before our trip that is coming up soon. I wouldn't mind paying for something. Heck, I would be fine if they kept the same system and just charged $20-$50 to access it.

 

[havoc315]

In terms of cost for the Willmark clan to go on an average stay that’s adding $5600 to our trip above what we would normally pay (4 of us assuming a 7 day stay at $200 a day for a unlimited hypothetical fast pass).

I discourage people from making this analysis as to what it would cost for them. Yes, ultimately, each family will have to determine whether it's worth it for them.
But the point of a paid FP wouldn't be to please every family. If it was meant for every family, they would just go with the old system -- Build the price into the ticket price, and offer free FPs to all.

So for reflection, let's look at "Adventures by Disney" -- Most of the "adventures" would cost $20,000 to $40,000 for a family of 4.
So a family that is used to paying $30,000 for a 7-10 day vacation may not flinch at another $3,000-$5,000 added to a Disney World vacation.

Again it comes back to value: for us, I’m not paying for Disney’s rides because to me they just aren’t worth it $ wise. In this case I’m paying money solely to not stand in line. At that rate there had better be zero wait time and none of the restrictions I mentioned.

I imagine there are some that would think that’s unfair yet if we (and others) can afford to do it? I think it’s unfair that I don’t make as much money as Jeff Bezos.

Point I’m making is that Disney likes to have it both ways, charge a premium and at the same time try to making it welcoming budget wise (certainly not so much anymore) for others.

But paid FP is a way to do exactly that. Those that want a Deluxe Club level experience, fine dining, and line cutting -- Can pay $25,000 for their week.
Those who want to brown bag their lunches, get the cheapest room, and experience the rides on regular standby... can do it for $4,000 for the week.
Yes -- Life isn't fair that the "budget" person has to wait on the line. It's also not "fair" that they have a smaller hotel room, that they aren't on the monorail, and that they are eating PB&J instead of caviar.

Then there is the added PR issue of such a move: imagine you’re in standby and you know that all those people zipping through paid more for the privilege not to wait. I don’t think they want to address/have you deal with the fallout of that.

So... where is this massive fallout from all the other theme parks that use the system?? I haven't seen a populist revolt at Universal which charges $300+ for peak express passes.

The "fallout" would be some whining by Disney fanatics on message boards who are suddenly priced out.
The vast majority of guests would look at the price, shrug and say "too expensive for me", and go about their business.

 

[G00fyDad]

I need (want) them to announce something very soon. I am close to booking our trip for next year. If it is a paid option of $100-$300 per person per day then I am staying off property since I will not pay that much. That would be an extra $2400 to $7200 on our trip. No thanks. I'll stay off property since the only reason I am staying on property again is to book FPs 60 days out. If I am not getting FPs then I will stay off property and save a ton of cash.

 

[George]

Why not? They do LOTS of things that already "double the cost" of a family's trip.
If you stay at a deluxe resort instead of a value resort, it doubles the cost of your trip.
If you book a VIP tour, it can MORE than double the cost of your trip.
If you buy Boo Bash tickets for your quick 1 night trip, it can double the cost of the entire trip.
If you eat dinner at Victoria and Alberts and Takumi Tei, it can double the cost of the entire trip.

Lots of things double the cost of the family trip. Those who believe it is worthwhile, pay the difference.

I hate to put it this way, but a paid FP system, if implemented, wouldn't be for the "serfs", it would be for the "nobles." It's not for anybody booking Pop Century and eating QS every meal. It's for the people who book club level deluxe resorts, who pay $385 per person for dinner with wine pairing at Victoria and Albert. Those are the people who would buy the $200 express pass every day.
And maybe the people who book regular deluxe rooms and eat lots of signature meals, they might buy a couple days worth of an expensive paid FP.

Rumor had it that some new counter serves will feature troughs of baked beans garnished with dead dogs for the serfs. A $19.99, 1.5 gallon bean bucket can be refilled every half hour (pesky RFID) all day! Plus a Big Hero 6 themed mini bean shovel will be included!

 

[Willmark]

I discourage people from making this analysis as to what it would cost for them. Yes, ultimately, each family will have to determine whether it's worth it for them.

It’s the only way too look at it IMO.

But the point of a paid FP wouldn't be to please every family.

Nor should it, if that’s the route they truly go (see below).

If it was meant for every family, they would just go with the old system -- Build the price into the ticket price, and offer free FPs to all.

I’m not sure there is a direct correlation between the ticket price and FP being built in.

So for reflection, let's look at "Adventures by Disney" -- Most of the "adventures" would cost $20,000 to $40,000 for a family of 4.
So a family that is used to paying $30,000 for a 7-10 day vacation may not flinch at another $3,000-$5,000 added to a Disney World vacation.

They might not blink at it, so I agree here.

But paid FP is a way to do exactly that. Those that want a Deluxe Club level experience

Club level at Disney leaves a lot to be desired.

, fine dining,

I don’t think of Disney when I think of fine dining…

and line cutting

Not sure it’s line cutting, it’s not waiting.

Yes -- Life isn't fair that the "budget" person has to wait on the line. It's also not "fair" that they have a smaller hotel room, that they aren't on the monorail, and that they are eating PB&J instead of caviar.

Ageeed.

So... where is this massive fallout from all the other theme parks that use the system?? I haven't seen a populist revolt at Universal which charges $300+ for peak express passes.

Didn’t say there was currently. I’m thinking if they go to this they will have the issue given Disney sorta straddling the line as they are now.

The "fallout" would be some whining by Disney fanatics on message boards who are suddenly priced out.

Agreed.

The vast majority of guests would look at the price, shrug and say "too expensive for me", and go about their business.

Agreed.

To me I think a lot of this is moot. My guess is more hard ticket events and some sort of packages or flex FP that pops up like in app purchases in games these days.

 

[DisneyCane]

I've been to WDW roughly 25 times since the mid-80's. My favorite trip was August 2020. Wanna know why? There was no one there and we rode every ride with almost no lines. And I mean NO LINES. Peter Pan was a walk-on ride. Space Mountain allowed us to stay on the ride without getting off because no one was waiting to get on. It was absolutely magical and sad, all things considered.

I've been there more times than you but agree 100% with the best time ever. For me it was four days in July 2020 with the absolute best being 7/17/20 at AK. FoP was not only walk on but they let you short cut from the exit into the FP queue to re-ride without having to walk the whole queue again. We rode 4 times consecutive, did some other stuff, 2 times consecutive and stopped by for a 7th ride before leaving.

I don't expect wait times to be anything like that in normal times. However, the parks were far more enjoyable back in the day when, on a normal, average day, the D-tickets would have 20 minute waits and the E-tickets 45 minutes to an hour. This was in the prehistoric, before paper FP days.

 

[G00fyDad]

The summer season is upon them. Why are they dragging their feet on this? Announce something Disney!