FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[DisneyDodo]

I agree that they need more capacity, but I don't think the MK theater would have addressed that to the degree you're suggesting. There's an upper bound to the amount of time most guests will spend watching shows. Most of the theaters have excess capacity. Adding more theater capacity will primarily just draw people out of those half-empty theaters (ETR, CBJ, etc.) into the new shiny one. What they really need (especially in the non-MK parks) is more rides: C- & D-ticket people eating rides that can help draw people off the lines for the E-tickets.

pre-Covid DHS was a great example of this. They had plenty of shows (TLM, BatB, IJ, Frozen, Disney Jr, LMRA, Muppets, etc.), but it didn't do nearly enough to keep the waits down for the E tickets because nobody was sitting through 8 shows in a row.

 

[dovetail65]

This will NEVER happen.........They are changing it to monetize it and because they thought it wasnt working....why would you allow more FP (old 3 PLUS buying more) when the old way was too many to begin with?

When a business says we are changing this because it is not working they do not mean guests were unhappy with it, quite the contrary most people loved FP+ and want it back as it was. Ask anyone in the park in a 75 minute line today if they want 3 free FP handed to them, they are not saying no.

When Bob Chapek says Fp+ wasn't working, what he meant was it wasn't working from a money making standpoint for a business. There is no system that can shorten the standby lines once capacity hits a certain number, it is civil engineering. Lines, even if they go to a paid FP will still be long when that number is hit.

People thinking they are changing FP to make lines shorter have no clue. This can only work three ways.

1)No FP, lines are long

2) Free FP, lines are long, but we get the relief of 3 free FP

3) Paid FP or DPA etc, the lines are long but now only the people with upwards of 400 dollars more per day to get the relief of any Fp.

For me this is fact. The only way to beat it is go in the low season.

 

[UNCgolf]

pre-Covid DHS was a great example of this. They had plenty of shows (TLM, BatB, IJ, Frozen, Disney Jr, LMRA, Muppets, etc.), but it didn't do nearly enough to keep the waits down for the E tickets because nobody was sitting through 8 shows in a row.

It's not a great comparison because several of the DHS shows were solely focused at children and the others have been there for decades. I think the Indy stunt show is excellent but I still have no desire to watch it again. It'd be a different story if most of the shows were relatively new.

 

[dizneycrazy09]

The people attempting to justify this as anything more than a pathetic cash grab and final destruction of what made Disney different must either had never visited from ‘90 to ‘00, or are drinking some type of Kool-Aid. We have to stop justifying and supporting these decisions with our money. I fear that people will never demand more and continue to pay more for less.

I fully understand that Disney is a business and needs to make decisions that benefit the bottom line; however, they don’t need to erase all of the things that made them an industry leader to do it. TWDC didn’t get to wear it is by having a cheap product and capitalizing on the value of nostalgia. That’s the product they’re selling now - the nostalgia of your childhood, and it’s a hell of a lot cheaper for them to sell that than it is to build a new ride.

 

[dreday3]

The people attempting to justify this as anything more than a pathetic cash grab and final destruction of what made Disney different must either had never visited from ‘90 to ‘00, or are drinking some type of Kool-Aid. We have to stop justifying and supporting these decisions with our money. I fear that people will never demand more and continue to pay more for less.

I fully understand that Disney is a business and needs to make decisions that benefit the bottom line; however, they don’t need to erase all of the things that made them an industry leader to do it. TWDC didn’t get to wear it is by having a cheap product and capitalizing on the value of nostalgia. That’s the product they’re selling now - the nostalgia of your childhood, and it’s a hell of a lot cheaper for them to sell that than it is to build a new ride.

It may very well be a cash-grab. It kind of sucks. They went ahead and seem to be making the decision without my input if you can believe it!
I'm still going and if while I'm on vacation I find it to be worth my time/money, I will use/purchase it and feel no guilt at all. I also don't care about waiting in 60 minute lines so who knows how many we would actually purchase.
We also don't even know what it's going to be yet!

We take a Disney trips every few years. We will enjoy them and not worry about what others feel about our decisions.

 

[tallica]

Not sure if you noticed but the "regualr" lines are not moving more quickly.....


Who is setting this narrative?

Was there last week and the lines were a NIGHTMARE........

they did not move

they took over 2 hours


it was AWFUL

Yes even if takes 2 hours the line is physically moving faster rather than standing in a stagnant line.

 

[tallica]

That’s the “bone” to NOT include any time fastpass with the room

…are the kids understanding yet?

I think you are right, makes total sense.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The people attempting to justify this as anything more than a pathetic cash grab and final destruction of what made Disney different must either had never visited from ‘90 to ‘00, or are drinking some type of Kool-Aid. We have to stop justifying and supporting these decisions with our money. I fear that people will never demand more and continue to pay more for less.

I fully understand that Disney is a business and needs to make decisions that benefit the bottom line; however, they don’t need to erase all of the things that made them an industry leader to do it. TWDC didn’t get to wear it is by having a cheap product and capitalizing on the value of nostalgia. That’s the product they’re selling now - the nostalgia of your childhood, and it’s a hell of a lot cheaper for them to sell that than it is to build a new ride.

You would have had to have visited and PAID in that period. I see many of the the same “oh well…I don’t care, gonna do what I want” from the under 40 segment…which means they were children or teens in that period you describe and don’t have A reference point.

 

[drizgirl]

Yes even if takes 2 hours the line is physically moving faster rather than standing in a stagnant line.

But we're talking about more than just your perceived experience waiting in line. Even if that 2 hour line is moving and you don't feel as frustrated, it has taken 2 hours away from the time you have available to do other things. Many visitors only have one day in a given park, and long lines make for a very unsatisfying experience, even if the line is moving the entire time.

 

[gmajew]

The pricing for Paris is crazy…. I am sorry but I much rather pay 100-200 for the day and hit everything then be nickeled and dime for each ride….And no that does not mean I want the flat fee either…..

This is a horrible move… horrible.

 

[DisneyDodo]

It's not a great comparison because several of the DHS shows were solely focused at children and the others have been there for decades. I think the Indy stunt show is excellent but I still have no desire to watch it again. It'd be a different story if most of the shows were relatively new.

Right, but that's kinda my point. A new show may help somewhat early on, but after a few years, it will stop filling up (and we know Disney isn't gonna be replacing it very frequently), while a good ride can stay popular for decades. ToT, ST, RnRC, and TSM are all pretty old at this point, but they still fill up their ride vehicles and then some.

 

[Jeff4272]

Yes, lines without FP move are continually moving at quick pace. No more inching along at a snails pace. A line is more tolerable to most people when it feels like you are making progress.

This is just not true. I was there for 10 days and got home last Friday and not one line moved They were insane long. Waited over 2 hours for millennium falcon, FOP and over 90 minutes for tot, sdd and a few others and i will never go again.

Waiting 90-120 minutes for every headliner was painful and our trip was terrible b of the waits

 

[G00fyDad]

This is just not true. I was there for 10 days and got home last Friday and not one lined moves. They were insane long. Waited over 2 hours for millennium falcon, FOP and over 90 minutes for tot, sdd and a few others and i will never go again.

Waiting 90-120 minutes for every headliner was painful and our trip was terrible b of the waits

Just don't bother. They will never be convinced that FP did not make the lines/waits seriously longer no matter what you say. They are suprememly convinced they are right and nothing is going to make them see it.

 

[Jeff4272]

If one strips everything down to the question: Why stay on property? The answer is quite literally...because it's on property. People will pay to stay in the bubble. And Disney knows this. Why entice anyone to stay at a Disney hotel if they can already fill rooms year after year? Yes, one can argue that they've provided perks in the past...but why is that do you think?

It's not more money = more perks

It's more money = you get what you pay for

**Edit to say that I don't agree with this mentality

It has happened before and will happen again. Occupancy rates have gone down many times in the past. And they have way more hotel rooms now they have ever had

 

[Jon81uk]

But we're talking about more than just your perceived experience waiting in line. Even if that 2 hour line is moving and you don't feel as frustrated, it has taken 2 hours away from the time you have available to do other things. Many visitors only have one day in a given park, and long lines make for a very unsatisfying experience, even if the line is moving the entire time.

But it’s not possible to get a Fastpass for every ride. So you might only wait 10 minutes (FP) for one ride and then 130 minutes for another. whereas without the FP you might wait 60 minutes each for two attractions.
This works better in Magic Kingdom where there are enough headline attractions to spread people out.
Issue is with things like Milenium Falcon is more people want to ride than it can handle. If there was another almost new attraction in the park it might bring that line down as people are more spread out.

 

[Jeff4272]

It may very well be a cash-grab. It kind of sucks. They went ahead and seem to be making the decision without my input if you can believe it!
I'm still going and if while I'm on vacation I find it to be worth my time/money, I will use/purchase it and feel no guilt at all. I also don't care about waiting in 60 minute lines so who knows how many we would actually purchase.
We also don't even know what it's going to be yet!

We take a Disney trips every few years. We will enjoy them and not worry about what others feel about our decisions.

Oh you’re the one

 

[Jeff4272]

Yes even if takes 2 hours the line is physically moving faster rather than standing in a stagnant line.

Lol. Re read and think of what you just said. A 2 hour line is moving faster than a 120 minute line?

ok. You are the person that makes me so mad saying a 2 hour line that’s moving is better a 2 hour line that sometimes moves and sometimes stops.

Its still freakin 2 hours.

this conversation is ridiculous

 

[ParentsOf4]

This is just not true. I was there for 10 days and got home last Friday and not one lined moves. They were insane long. Waited over 2 hours for millennium falcon, FOP and over 90 minutes for tot, sdd and a few others and i will never go again.

Waiting 90-120 minutes for every headliner was painful and our trip was terrible b of the waits.

Hopefully you realize that paying for quicker access does nothing to speed up lines. If anything, it’s only going to make wait times worse.

Let’s say that you pay your $72 ($18 x 4) so you and your family can skip the Standby line at Peter Pan. Are you just going to sit around and wait for your return time? No, you are going to jump into another Standby line whose wait will be even longer because there will be other families who have paid their $72 so they can skip that Standby line.

The new system allows people to occupy 2 queues at once, meaning most wait times will get worse.

And if you are not in a physical queue, then you are in the walkways, stores, or restaurants, making those more crowded. Once you allow for a virtual queue, you effectively are in 2 places at once.

The only way Disney truly solves this is by adding many more high capacity attractions, something they essentially haven’t done since the 1990s.

Remember, much of what Disney has built in the last 20 years has replaced something else. In some cases, the new attraction has lower capacity than what it replaced.

In the past, Disney added entire theme parks about once a decade. It’s now 23 years since DAK opened.

Adding a handful of new attractions here-and-there is not going to solve the problem. WDW needs a major uptick in ride capacity. Corporate Disney has neglected this for far too long.

 

[dreday3]

Oh you’re the one

It's me!

 

[Jeff4272]

Hopefully you realize that paying for quicker access does nothing to speed up lines. If anything, it’s only going to make wait times worse.

Let’s say that you pay your $72 ($18 x 4) so you and your family can skip the Standby line at Peter Pan. Are you just going to sit around and wait for your return time? No, you are going to jump into another Standby line whose wait will be even longer because there will be other families who have paid their $72 so they can skip that Standby line.

The new system allows people to occupy 2 queues at once, meaning most wait times will get worse.

And if you are not in a physical queue, then you are in the walkways, stores, or restaurants, making those more crowded. Once you allow for a virtual queue, you effectively are in 2 places at once.

The only way Disney truly solves this is by adding many more high capacity attractions, something they essentially haven’t done since the 1990s.

Remember, much of what Disney has built in the last 20 years has replaced something else. In some cases, the new attraction has lower capacity than what it replaced.

In the past, Disney added entire theme parks about once a decade. It’s now been 23 years since DAK opened.

Adding a handful of new attractions here-and-there is not going to solve the problem. WDW needs a major uptick in ride capacity. Corporate Disney has neglected this for far too long.

This narrative is also flawed and just flat out wrong. What I gain in FP on peter pan (save 90 minutes) I might pay in riding buzz (10 minutes) b there are way more rides to absorb the few headline ones with 90+ minute waits.

on top of that, overall attendance has increased from 47,146,000 in 2008 to 58,311,000 in 2018 That’s over a 20% increase.

new attractions bring more guests, not less. So adding capacity won’t help since it will add more attendance.