FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Agreed that is my point, they don't care about bumping the current attendance, they want to do more to hold you here and have you stay longer and save cost by having more predictable numbers every day. That's what he mans when he says 'control attendance' in my opinion, its knowing how many of everything they need and reduce their overhead. I don't believe Disney is thinking volume anymore it is efficiency and per vacation profit.

Ok…but then that brings up the other problem: their current attendance exceeded comfortable ride capacity about 10 years ago

 

[FettFan]

“Miss me yet?” - Michael Eisner

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

126 minute wait time on hold with Disney . Trying to see if switching from CBR to POR now that it is opening in Oct makes sense. If I can save some money that would he ideal, since I have NO choice but to purchase DPA (IF there is no free component to it). Its not like I'm going 2nd week in December. I'd be curious of the agent i get budges when I explain the reason is I worry about having to pay for rides. They will probably continue saying they know nothing yet.

So “give them what they want” is the play?

we as customers need to act more like volunteers and less like hostages

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

“Miss me yet?” - Michael Eisner

…like you wouldn’t believe.

i’ve watched Iger lovers parade around like circus dogs talking about how much better he is/was…but never looking at the context and exterior factors.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

Ok…but then that brings up the other problem: their current attendance exceeded comfortable ride capacity about 10 years ago

Very true. And to bring it full circle I've always thought the way FP+ was utilized added to the general problem rather than helped it, but I'm curious to see if any of these things change the overall crowd flow of the parks

 

[Waters Back Side]

So “give them what they want” is the play?

we as customers need to act more like volunteers and less like hostages

Not necessarily. I have a budget. If I can fit it in my budget (in other words break even, I'll decide).

I'm not paying more then what the package of hotel and tickets cost. I usually also get the meal plan. That's out the window.

Plus we like POR more but they don't need to know that.

 

[Touchdown]

Chasing per cap spending to the detriment of all else works for a few years until it doesn’t, and when it fails it fails spectacularly, potentially endangering company. See Six Flags twice since the 2000s, and Cedar Fair in the final days of Dick “people gotta eat” Kinzel, heck just look at Paul Pressler at DL. If Disney times this poorly with an economic downturn it’s going to be disastrous. They are further diversified then SF or CF so provided their other divisions pick up the slack they should be ok. The results can be far reaching too, I travel the country going to parks and hold annual passes for multiple chains, but despite a Six Flags park being the closest park to me I can count on one hand the days I’ve spent at any SF park in the last 10 years. They burned me so bad I have no desire to regularly frequent their parks even 10-15 years later. Us crazy’s may remain but more casual visitors will not.

 

[hopemax]

FoP currently has a 105 minute wait and Navi has a 50 minute wait. But, everything is great without FastPass and lines are *so* much shorter.

And if you did this on July 8, 2019 the posted wait time @ 9am would have been 210 minutes for FOP and 75 minutes for Navi according to Touring Plans historical calendar. So yeah, if you were one of the people who didn’t get a FOP FP in the before times, you have a 50% shorter wait. You think that’s nothing?

No one promised zero lines. But somewhere along the way, it became acceptable to take capacity from people who were willing to queue, to distribute something finite to those that weren’t. Normally people reject the idea that the complainers should get to waltz in front of everyone else, but for this, everyone thinks they deserve the short queue.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

We are all speculating. DLP, DL, and the other parks operate differently to WDW. There are things Orlando has to account for that DLP doesn't and vice versa. But if we're going to speculate and take guesses - here's mine.

I can easily see an environment where "Premier" will be leveraged to encourage on property stays. Maybe it will be that you'll get 4 complimentary ride options per day staying at a Deluxe - along with a 10-15% discount on additional rides you purchase. Moderates give you 3, Values 2, Disney Good Neighbor Hotels (aka Bonnet Creek and Hotel Plaza) maybe one. Something along those lines. Of course - you're going to pay for that by way of room increases.

The other way they could play it - which is what I've been fearful of for a long while - is creation of an almost "all-inclusive" option that would include Room, Tickets, Premier, and maybe dining. They'd need to shift the pricing model similar to how it is done with cruises and other "all-inclusive" destinations, where you'd have a person double occupancy rate and then a rate for additional people in the room. How would people feel paying $1000p/p a night for a Deluxe, $850p/p per night for a moderate and $650p/p for a value - but knowing they had "Premier" and DDP?

I have no idea on the actual math, but Disney could price it so that a family of 4 would end up paying $10-$15,000 for a weeks stay at a Deluxe.

 

[Jenny72]

Wow, I hope this speculation about moving to a microtransactions-style system is wrong. The main thing that strikes me is how *tacky* it feels. Even more tacky than my local amusement park, and that's saying something.

I'm older, so I recognize that younger people might be more used to this style of transaction and see it as normal, but for someone in my generation it feels like the exact opposite of quality and luxury. It's like Disney meets Candy Crush. (99 cents for a booster pack, anyone?)

Maybe the old-style branding of quality and valuing customers is just old-fashioned now unless you're ultra-rich. But if they go down this route, it will be the biggest blow to their brand that they've ever done. Maybe they won't end up doing it, but it's telling that it seems like it's possible that they would.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

We are all speculating. DLP, DL, and the other parks operate differently to WDW. There are things Orlando has to account for that DLP doesn't and vice versa. But if we're going to speculate and take guesses - here's mine.

I can easily see an environment where "Premier" will be leveraged to encourage on property stays. Maybe it will be that you'll get 4 complimentary ride options per day staying at a Deluxe - along with a 10-15% discount on additional rides you purchase. Moderates give you 3, Values 2, Disney Good Neighbor Hotels (aka Bonnet Creek and Hotel Plaza) maybe one. Something along those lines. Of course - you're going to pay for that by way of room increases.

The other way they could play it - which is what I've been fearful of for a long while - is creation of an almost "all-inclusive" option that would include Room, Tickets, Premier, and maybe dining. They'd need to shift the pricing model similar to how it is done with cruises and other "all-inclusive" destinations, where you'd have a person double occupancy rate and then a rate for additional people in the room. How would people feel paying $1000p/p a night for a Deluxe, $850p/p per night for a moderate and $650p/p for a value - but knowing they had "Premier" and DDP?

I have no idea on the actual math, but Disney could price it so that a family of 4 would end up paying $10-$15,000 for a weeks stay at a Deluxe.

An inclusive model makes more sense to me with the prices they are charging and the growing sense of being nickle and dimed on an already outrageously expensive vacation, though I doubt Disney goes that direction.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Americans hate micro-transactions. We cannot compare offerings at international parks to that of the domestic parks. There’s a reason they have differed for years and they will continue to differ.

In light of that, I would be surprised to see a system entirely comprised of only pay per ride. An unlimited pass is likely out of the cards, but free tiers associated proportionally with resort category (1 for value, 2 for moderate, 3 for deluxe) with pay per ride after those allotments are used is highly likely. Though, I don’t expect any FP perks associated with Gold AP status.

 

[pdude81]

If they figured out that guests spent more money when it's less crowded, and that overall revenue went up, they would absolutely have interest in reducing attendance.

If businesses thought like that, you wouldn't be able to get a giant soda for 20 cents more than a small soda.

But if you're right about their general viewpoint, that could at least lead to building out ride capacity so they could make more money with similar guest/capacity ratios.

 

[pdude81]

iger saying “we’re trying to control attendance”
Was a flat out lie…he’s not required to show his cards on a zoom call…

what it means is that they saw a disgruntlement trend and they would re-evaluate how best to push attendance and prices higher.

at least one obvious attempt failed…they built bad Star Wars stuff and the fanbase didn’t show beyond Disney nuts.

They are trying to control attendance. Unfortunately it's it seems to be cast member attendance based on park pass ratios.

 

[lewisc]

Here's what Disney should do to really monetize this:

Notification: The current wait time for Space Mountain is 90 minutes. Would you like to skip the line and ride now for $10 per person?
Yes.
Notification: Sorry, there are no longer any fast passes available at this time. Would you like to ride Space Mountain 10 minutes from now for $40 per person?

Or even better: Auction every space in line for every ride to the highest bidder. Simple supply and demand capitalism. What could be more magical? And Disney technology would make this fun and easy.

Contract with ebay to run the system. Price it like ticketmaster. Add fees equal of at least 33%. Enough to cover costs and a kick back to Disney.

Disney park access powered by eBay, or Ticketmaster.

 

[G00fyDad]

“Miss me yet?” - Michael Eisner

Always

 

[Waters Back Side]

Americans hate micro-transactions. We cannot compare offerings at international parks to that of the domestic parks. There’s a reason they have differed for years and they will continue to differ.

In light of that, I would be surprised to see a system entirely comprised of only pay per ride. An unlimited pass is likely out of the cards, but free tiers associated proportionally with resort category (1 for value, 2 for moderate, 3 for deluxe) with pay per ride after those allotments are used is highly likely. Though, I don’t expect any FP perks associated with Gold AP status.

It is certainly better than nothing. I'm a happy camper with one free top tier attraction and 2 tier 2's like always and being completely capped from getting any more unless I pay.

But between the rest of Summer and Holidays like Labor Day Weekend, Thanksgiving, Christmas/New Year approaching, it really is interesting to see how they handle a new system with kinks and bugs during the busiest times of the year. Quieter times if they rolled out whatever is coming, it would not be a true way of judging how well it works because it does not take into account how many people ONLY come during busier weeks.

 

[Trauma]

The best news I have today is Disney shares are down near 10% since earnings.

If this slide continues maybe we will get new leadership sooner than later.

 

[Jeff4272]

I know I'm in the minority, but I'm trying to figure out why people are shocked that a resort area is making many of the same changes that resort areas are making all over the world over the past 10 years. Paid parking, optional shuttle, no baggage handling from the airport are standard things at properties all over the world. And I'm not sure the rooms were ever priced with these ideas "built in" to the room rate. Some of these changes are things I won't miss or remember being just fine without before they were implemented.

And honestly I've been three times post-pandemic and didn't miss FP+ one bit.

Just wait until attendance is back to normal then reply here.........and the point is, you are paying even more for the same room that used to give you those perks and now they are not....I just dont understand how people dont see this as an issue....

 

[DisneyMusician2]

The best news I have today is Disney shares are down near 10% since earnings.

If this slide continues maybe we will get new leadership sooner than later.

Eh its a normal correction for the market and a result of the stock being more than a little overvalued based on the streaming subscriber numbers. Its not going to make the higher ups blink. Get closer to 30% an they'll talk.