FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[larryz]

yep. Integrity all over the place

The best integrity money can buy.

 

[phillip9698]

No. You had the privilege of being able to make 3 Fastpasses in advance. That's it. They were free and not skip the line passes either.
Essentially Disney was doing you a favor.

No such thing as a free lunch. Fast passes were factored into the price of a ticket/room. Disney wasnt doing anyone a favor, they were definitely using the FP+ system as a selling point to get you to their parks. How many people here say they visited the parks more often knowing that they could ride their favorites, its not an insignificant number.

Maybe the reason Disney is so comfortable removing so much from their parks is because guests think they were doing us a favor to begin with. No more night time parade, oh no worries they were doing us a favor by having more than one parade.

 

[larryz]

And too many people saying that the parties were too crowded is likely how they came up with the after hours events...more money for fewer hours.

No, I remember the question I was asked: would I be willing to pay more for access to select rides if there were no crowds, guaranteed.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

No, I remember the question I was asked: would I be willing to pay more for access to select rides if there were no crowds, guaranteed.

I'd bet that there was a survey to measure guest satisfaction with the parties and then another prior to implementing the after hours events.

 

[IanDLBZF]

Hey folks, not sure as to whether or not this relates to the upcoming changes, but KennyThePirate reports Rider Swap changes effective July 16.

Major Change Coming to Child Swap at Disney World

The rider switch (child swap) benefit at Disney World is about to undergo some major changes, and it's not good. Here are the details. Rider Switch Child

www.kennythepirate.com

 

[MJM]

I think you are overhyping the situation you could end up in...

"Which one ride will we grab a Standby Return pass for as soon as it becomes available?
And you’ll need to adapt plans on the fly, depending on what happens."

Isn't that exactly what we all did in FP days? Look at available times, make a decision based on the current conditions and what we planned for the rest of the day? Or even pre-FP with looking at lines and availability?



Or looked at it another way... you are free to do what you want and adapt to what you see and feel like... instead of being locked into a plan that you made months ago based on the availability you were offered - instead of necessarily what you wanted in the first place.



Isn't this the __exact behavior__ people used to say why FP+ and 3 FPs wasn't a big issue? Because you could do exactly what you are saying and people were more than happy to do so?

Personally I don't find the issue of 'day of' planning vs 60/whatever days out an issue because it removes most of the hassles the 60days out presented. Tiered access, punishment for last-minute bookings, punishment for organized group trips (vs vacationers), dealing with the future vs now, lack of flexibility to adjust your plans, etc. Sure you are giving up 'piece of mind', but you are also breaking free of the chains or tearing down the exclusionary walls. That's a gain in my book.

Advanced scheduling (and the further and further pushing out of the boundary) IMO was one of the worst things DIsney has been doing. So a new model that burns that to the ground? Excellent. On the other points, I'm still trying to digest how it will play out.

Be careful what you wish for. There has been no announcement yet on WDW FP system to come. You say “let’s break free!” yet you don’t know what’s being planned and as far as I can tell it’s going to cost you when it was free to everyone before. You may have chosen to not utilize FP before because it didn’t suit you to plan in advance of your trip. It’s not fun for you and too stressful. If WDW decides to go the VQ route for all major attractions among other changes to standby, you may be wishing the old FP+ never left. I wouldn’t be so quick to jump on this rumor bandwagon yet

 

[MrPromey]

This is one of the things offensive about Premier Access. You already were paying for FP+. Disney is taking that away and charging you for its replacement.

Every time I read the word "free" on here, I want to gag.

People say it all the time, even when they are mad about changes "they now want to charge me for something that was once free!".

Nothing was ever free at Disney.

When they tack a fee on to something that was once inclusive, they are finding ways to charge you a second or (in some cases) third time for something you've already paid for, if you've ever been before.

If you've never been before, you can't fully comprehend the way they've been able to create leapfrogging price increases by using this tactic over and over now of breaking out these things once include while also continuing to raise the core price in the process.

If you've been before and haven't noticed this trick, or noticed and are totally cool with it, congratulations, you're their target audience. Physical park maps, if you want them, will now be $3, each.*



*to everyone ready to respond to this last thing, let me save you the time: "Good! I always use my phone, anyway!", "This is better for the environment because it forces people to not use maps.", "Old people that don't want to use smart phones are dumb and need to die so society can march forward!", etc, etc.. - trees, meet forest.

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

No such thing as a free lunch. Fast passes were factored into the price of a ticket. Disney wasnt doing anyone a favor, they were definitely using the FP+ system as a selling point to get you to their parks. How many people here say they visited the parks more often knowing that they could ride their favorites, its not an insignificant number.

Maybe the reason Disney is so comfortable removing so much from their parks is because guests think they were doing us a favor to begin with. No more night time parade, oh no worries they were doing us a favor by having more than one parade.

Well then the same could be said for Universal.
They essentially copied Disney in the early days of Fastpass and then started charging...
Disney is not unique in charging additional prices for such a thing. What's unique is they hadn't monetized it prior to now when most theme parks/amusement parks have a "skip the line pass" and have charged for it from its introduction.
Too many Karens and choosey beggers these days.

 

[jpinkc]

I think the key point is "what's the point?". Yes, we all know that surveys can be manipulated, usually to influence public opinion. But that's not the case here, because they don't release these results to the public. So what is the point? Why spend the money conducting these surveys if the outcome is predetermined? It makes no sense.

I do think Disney cares about guest opinions and guest experience, but it's one of many things that say index again, and it's not necessarily the most important one. To say that the surveys are rigged to a pre-determined outcome is a conspiracy theory that doesn't add up - because again, it costs them money to do, and they don't release the results so there's no need to manipulate them

Now, it's certainly possible that they're biases inadvertently creep into the surveys. That would make more sense to me than some calculated decision to spend gobs of money on surveys with a predetermined outcome. But to say that Disney doesn't care at all about guest experience or does these surveys to get a predetermined answer makes absolutely zero sense and smacks of ridiculous conspiracy theory.

I don't buy the everyone at Disney is some evil Ebenezer Scrooge type sitting in their counting house trying to figure out how to swindle from the poor. I think most people they are trying to do the best job they can balancing their business to the guests but also what they perceive as their duty to shareholders. That's often a difficult balance to strike, And oftentimes it ends up tilting in the wrong direction, but I don't see any evidence that they don't care about guest experience at all, or that these surveys are just for show. It just doesn't add up.

Oh I am not saying all surveys are that way. It depends on the company. An example, we had surveys done about customer satisfaction done MANY TIMES!! Sent to several 1000 people a year, but we noticed that the survey questions were, how to say loaded with one company in particular very biased questions and answers. Several other dealers we knew used the same outfit and were getting back to them glowing results. So we went to another firm and gave them the same instructions and got a TOTALLY different response. We gave both companies the same customer lists. It really showed us how some places prefer to massage the questions and answers to get the outcome that will make the purchaser happy. Now in the Disney case, its I imagine to show the board or stockholders or people on the fence about a change. It might also be to protect there own jobs if the blowback became large enough. Hey we did survey look at these results.... I wont say surveys are bad but data with a built in bias is useless, be it pro or con to any issue.

 

[MrPromey]

It is ... but it's also a bit of a Catch-22 right? There's no motivation to update and support the tech, if your guests are still largely attached to the old systems.

How many times do we have to go thru this loop:

Disney introduces Fastpass and the guests hate it and want the old standby queues.
Disney introduces Fastpass+ and the guests hate it and want the old paper tickets.
Disney introduces Virtual Queues and Boarding Groups and the guests hate it and want the old Fastpass+ options.
Disney introduces Paid Fastpasses and ... ?

One of these things is not like the others...

 

[flynnibus]

Umm no. Not quite but nice try. Have you stayed in a deluxe resort room? They’re deluxe category for a reason. Is it comparable to a 5 star resort in BoraBora? NO. That I can state unequivocally but the deluxe rooms at WDW compared to the value resort rooms- definitely an upgrade!

Only because the value hotels are so low. Disney deluxes aren’t even on par with most nice business hotels, leg alone anything “upgraded”. They are pretty damn basic by most travelers standards.

you don’t need to compare to bora bora… try a hilton in random city.

 

[MrPromey]

Wdw isn’t filled with nearly as many “high wealth” people as they lead to believe and…apparently you believe.

it’s what I said way upthread…it’s new money types that revel in what they’re charged and feel proud…not a luxury playground.

it was built for a middle class that sadly has changed…but it’s still built/run for them

everyone should consider that slaphead doesn’t care if he pushes it too far and attendance tanks? Why should he? He just moves on into retirement if it does and gets paid regardless.

disney isn’t run the way people assume it is…while also making excuses for price increases and trusting they won’t go too far.

which is it?

I've primarily encountered two "money" groups at Disney over the last, I don't know, 10-20 years?*

One that will openly joke with you (a total stranger) about how they think those metal detectors at the front gate are for finding loose change to skim while waiting in line at Test Track with their two kids and then the other group, often without kids who are taking selfies of themselves with Mickey Ears on, while holding up Mickey Pretzels in front of Spaceship Earth.

The first group knows they're getting raked for money but they're there for their kids. They're trying to make family memories because they want to be able to look back at those smiling photos 20 years from now when those kids are grown and gone. They're putting on a happy face and are probably the ones who will joke when they go back to the office about how they need a vacation to recover from their vacation.

I'd consider these people the "old money".

The second group, are the ones that don't seem to realize what their level of spend/debt going all out at Disney could get them outside the bubble and don't care because It's-Not-Disney®.

They're also the ones more likely to be sporting a colorful Haunted Mansion stretching room portrait on their upper arm, showing an implied lifetime commitment to the company.

More and more, in recent years, I've noticed an increase in the latter and a decrease in the former.

To me this is representative of who Disney wants in their parks, these days. That second group is a lot easier and a lot more willing to splurge on up-sells since they're only "pampering" themselves and I think that is the group Disney most thinks about with a lot of this stuff.

We talk about how you can possibly do this or do that for a family of four and while there are some people who try to and others who can afford to and I'm sure are happy to, it seems like Disney is more considering the young couple that works for Facebook and doesn't have kids to worry about.

Interestingly, both groups are usually pro-alcohol in the parks but for very different reasons.



... I'm thinking of people I actually know in that childless couple at Facebook, example. Also, the Test-Track guy is a true story.


*Obviously true black-and-white comparisons are impossible, everyone is different and I know I'm speaking in gross generalities, here.

 

[jpinkc]

Only because the value hotels are so low. Disney deluxes aren’t even on par with most nice business hotels, leg alone anything “upgraded”. They are pretty damn basic by most travelers standards.

you don’t need to compare to bora bora… try a hilton in random city.

Really how many hotels even use FULL beds anymore. Almost all 4 occupant rooms are queens, Disney Deluxe is not much better than a random Courtyard Inn. In terms of room quality, I am not saying the theming of the Deluxes lobby pool areas etc are not nice, I am referring to the rooms.

 

[MrPromey]

You're absolutely right about expensive hotels charging for parking. While you can say that WDW already was charging for parking, (as you know) pricing is a matter of supply and demand. Since there's a somewhat limited supply for a huge demand, their pricing for rooms is really independent of charging for parking. The premium for the room isn't for luxury as it is anywhere else - it's for access to the bubble - the closer you are to the parks the more you pay.

I disagree with your latter statement. Busch Garden and Universal both charge about the same to go through their gates but they didn't offer any free FP nor FP+. Disney was offering more than their most direct competitors in the area.

For less than the price of a single day ticket at Disney, a Florida resident can by one day in winter or spring and return all year for free. Out of state doesn't get that same perk but the ticket price is the same... and Bush Garden's audience looks a lot more like Disneyland's than Disney Worlds.

I've only rarely experienced typically comparable wait times at either Busch Gardens or Universal for their attractions, usually when they are new or during super peak times like holidays.

To be clear, when I say new, I don't mean built in the last decade the way Disney considers things new, either.

The one exception that really comes to mind is that damn Minions ride. I've never walked into Universal Studios and seen that thing at lest than 75 minutes.

Either it has the worst capacity in the world or they give out free gold bars at the end.

Either way, I'll never know because I refuse to wait 75 minutes to find out when we can do the Harry Potter rides with a shorter wait.

 

[gerarar]

For the love of Mickey, just bring back Fastpass+ already, Disney. Not this whatever convoluted system you decided to garble up.

I’ll make sure of it to buy an extra cupcake on my visits to WDW every 3 or so years, since you so desperately want more money..

 

[MrPromey]

Only because the value hotels are so low. Disney deluxes aren’t even on par with most nice business hotels, leg alone anything “upgraded”. They are pretty damn basic by most travelers standards.

you don’t need to compare to bora bora… try a hilton in random city.

Heck, try Hotel Blvd which is often comparable in price to (and can be found cheaper than) Pop Century...

 

[MrPromey]

This thread has taken the next form of its evolution: The airing of unrelated grievances.

Collective therapy, my friend.

 

[Chomama]

No, I remember the question I was asked: would I be willing to pay more for access to select rides if there were no crowds, guaranteed.

Hey I know a club you can join…

 

[MrPromey]

You cannot be serious. Rides generate NO money? Take the rides out of the park. HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DISNEY WORLD?

I think they need to start inviting you to executive meetings so you can remind them of this when they're passing on a park addition while deciding on where to clear land for the next DVC.

 

[MrPromey]

No. You had the privilege of being able to make 3 Fastpasses in advance. That's it. They were free and not skip the line passes either.
Essentially Disney was doing you a favor.

Since when did free-with-purchase become actually free?

Do you consider the toilet paper in your hotel room to be free?