FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[IanDLBZF]

I do not know anything about the Paris park. Lets see how it works over there.

This exactly. I'd wait and see how this works in Paris before jumping to conclusions.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

I’m now wondering about Touring Plans’ optimized itineraries as well—how challenging would it be to incorporate so many options and account for standby passes each day?

I'm assuming some patterns will start to reveal themselves once implemented. It should become clear relatively when lines for certain attractions hit the Standby Pass-level.

 

[Trauma]

At some point Wall Street has to be ok with long term sustainable growth.

Currently everything is about how much more can you make right now.

This isn’t a sustainable business model for any corporation and it’s why just about everything from Disney to appliances to airlines is more and more $$$ for less and less.

 

[IanDLBZF]

This isn’t a sustainable business model for any corporation and it’s why just about everything from Disney to appliances to airlines is more and more $$$ for less and less.

And this is how many of these companies go out of business.

 

[flynnibus]

The system is not that complicated if you just don't try to connect lines back to prior models.

The system is pretty straight forward

1) You have a line...
2) When that line gets too long, Disney will close the line and ask people to come back later via the form of a standby pass. (this is the old 'deferred demand' portion of Fastpass). When people return, it's like standing in standby
3) Independently, Disney will be selling one-time use passes to skip the standby line. Pricing could be dynamic.

When they push that message alone - I think people would be able to digest it.

People can understand 'ride is closed, come back later'... It's basically that.. 'line is closed, you can request to come back later with a standby pass'

 

[SoFloMagic]

This is going to make the queues for rides and attractions without “alternative access” really long. Whilst hanging around waiting to be able to join the Tron standby line with a return time 2 hrs away, people will end up queueing for COP and Tiki Birds just to fill time.

Which is what fastpass+ did to pirates and mansion and others that didn't need it

 

[IanDLBZF]

Which is what fastpass+ did to pirates and mansion and others that didn't need it

Back when Haunted Mansion had FastPass, it was an operations disaster and was suspended until FP+ came into play.
PhilharMagic not sure if it truly needed FP or FP+.

 

[Disstevefan1]

This exactly. I'd wait and see how this works in Paris before jumping to conclusions.

This was my biggest gripe about the Fastpass plus system in WDW, they made attractions that historically did not need FastPass, a fast Pass attraction. This turned these attractions that were previously walk ons now mobbed with both FastPass and standby riders.

 

[SoFloMagic]

The system is not that complicated if you just don't try to connect lines back to prior models.

The system is pretty straight forward

1) You have a line...
2) When that line gets too long, Disney will close the line and ask people to come back later via the form of a standby pass. (this is the old 'deferred demand' portion of Fastpass). When people return, it's like standing in standby
3) Independently, Disney will be selling one-time use passes to skip the standby line. Pricing could be dynamic.

When they push that message alone - I think people would be able to digest it.

People can understand 'ride is closed, come back later'... It's basically that.. 'line is closed, you can request to come back later with a standby pass'

"too many people in line. Go to the app and book a time for later for free or now for $89.99"

 

[ctrlaltdel]

There really is no reason for attractions like Pirates, Haunted Mansion, or any number of shows or Meet & Greets to have any sort of FP. Seems like this would be a perfect time to correct that with this new system, however, I'm sure they'll just port the new system onto the FP+ system. Unless, there are some exceptions that you have heard of @marni1971?

 

[nickys]

I’m now wondering about Touring Plans’ optimized itineraries as well—how challenging would it be to incorporate so many options and account for standby passes each day?

Optimising in park is something many Liners already do.

 

[412]

This was my biggest gripe about the Fastpass plus system in WDW, they made attractions that historically did not need FastPass, a fast Pass attraction. This turned these attractions that were previously walk ons now mobbed with both FastPass and standby riders.

From Disney's perspective, this meant that Fastpass+ was working as intended, distributing guests more evenly throughout the park. Disney doesn't want some rides to have 2 hr waits while others are walk-ons.

If FastPass+ convinces someone to head over to The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh rather than standing in line for Space Mountain, that's a success from Disney's perspective.

 

[aaronml]

The system is not that complicated if you just don't try to connect lines back to prior models.

The system is pretty straight forward

1) You have a line...
2) When that line gets too long, Disney will close the line and ask people to come back later via the form of a standby pass. (this is the old 'deferred demand' portion of Fastpass). When people return, it's like standing in standby
3) Independently, Disney will be selling one-time use passes to skip the standby line. Pricing could be dynamic.

When they push that message alone - I think people would be able to digest it.

People can understand 'ride is closed, come back later'... It's basically that.. 'line is closed, you can request to come back later with a standby pass'

Except that many people are familiar with some sort of FastPass offering…. It’s been around for many years at this point. It’s inevitable that many people will end up comparing this system to the FP or FP+ system they knew from past visits.

 

[el_super]

2) When that line gets too long, Disney will close the line and ask people to come back later via the form of a standby pass. (this is the old 'deferred demand' portion of Fastpass). When people return, it's like standing in standby

So at the point that the physical queue is full (say 60 minutes of people) the VQ kicks in and starts telling people to come back in 20 minutes. That allows the standby queue to grow beyond it's physical capacity... but virtually. When they come back in 20 minutes, the standby queue has about 40 minutes worth of people in it, and their total wait time is the same as it would have been otherwise.

This just lets them manage the physical queue space for attractions where the wait times are continually hitting points above 60, 70 or 80 minutes. And when the demand drops back down, they can turn it off again.

This is the exact same thing they did with Indiana Jones last month.

 

[havoc315]

So assuming WDW does adopt a version of Disney Premier Access... much will turn on implementation.

But we can start to draw some reasonable inferences and conclusions on its likely effects, likely winners and losers.
So some random likely points and commentary:

- No more need to plan 60/30 days in advance: This is a big pro, IMO. You'll be able to ride every E-ticket attraction without the need to book a FP 60+ days in advance. Depending on the park pass system, you may be able to truly make your plans spontaneously.
- Physical standby lines will be much shorter. I assume the "Standby Pass" limits the length of the physical queue. The physical queue still exists, but "standby pass" gets activated when the line exceeds 30 minutes, or an hour, or whatever. So standing in 90-120 minute lines may be a thing of the past.
- Without tons of pre-planning, regardless of whether you are on-site or off-site, regardless of whether deluxe or value, everyone will have the option to skip the line on the major E-ticket rides. It will simply be a question of whether it is worth the $$$. The pricing is not outrageous at $10 to $20 per ride, or so. Yes, that would become super expensive if you wanted to purchase 10 per day for a party of 4. But every guest can decide whether it's worth the price, whether to buy none, 1, or however many.
-Morning arriving guests should be able to guarantee themselves access to a minimum of 1 E-ticket attraction per day, for "free" and without a long line. And it will be any attraction they want. As things stand now, it's very possible that even booking at 60-62 days, you can't get a free FOP fastpass, for example. Under the new system, any guest arriving around rope drop should be able to get a "standby pass." While not the same as a FP, it will guarantee you the chance to ride FOP with a reasonable line -- 30 or 60 minutes, or however they set it, instead of 2+ hours. And if that isn't good enough, you'd have the option of buying DPA.
- There will be increased demand for popular attractions, because you no longer have the disincentive of a long line. If you arrived at DHS at 9:30 am and see a 2-hour line at Slinky Dog, many people will decide it's just not worth the line and will skip it. But if the physical line is only 30 minutes -- More guests may be fine waiting in a 4-hour virtual line, if the physical line is only 30 minutes. This increased demand could lead to "Standby Pass" lines filling up pretty quickly..... meaning...
- The big negative, late arriving guests may find themselves blocked from "Standby Pass" at popular attractions. All the standby passes could disappear quickly. Like in the old days of paper FP -- Some rides would have paper FPs still available till late in the day. But for Toy Story Mania, all the paper FPs would be gone within 20 minutes of park opening.

So the big winners potentially under this system: Those arriving to the park early and those willing to pay extra for DPA
The losers: Those who arrived to the park later and relied upon pre-booked "free" FP to E-ticket attractions.

Guests who mostly/entirely rely on the "free" standby system will likely spend less time in physical lines (which was Disney's unrealized goal with FP+), but will lose Front-of-line privileges at any ride. Instead of 1-2 E-ticket rides per day with virtually 0 physical wait, it will be all attractions with under a 30-60 minute physical wait. It should strike a better overall balance of wait times, with the downside that guests may become entirely excluded from some attractions on some days. Currently, you can get your FP for Slinky Dog, and still decide it's worthwhile to wait in a 60+ minute line for Smuggler's Run, another 60+ minutes for Runaway Train, and another 60+ minutes for TOT. Under the DPA system, you might grab your Standby Pass for Slinky, but then get completely blocked from the other "tier 1" attractions.

 

[G00fyDad]

I do not know anything about the Paris park. Lets see how it works over there.

With their one park? Sure.

 

[flynnibus]

Except that many people are familiar with some sort of FastPass offering…. It’s been around for many years at this point. It’s inevitable that many people will end up comparing this system to the FP or FP+ system they knew from past visits.

any number of examples where 'what was prior, is no more...' and people eventually adapt. Naming is a key point to help drive these things.

 

[G00fyDad]

any number of examples where 'what was prior, is no more...' and people eventually adapt. Naming is a key point to help drive these things.

You're right. Naming is a key point. We can just go ahead and call this The Last Time I'm Ever Going to Walt Disney world. Seriously. As I've said before if it wasn't for the Star Wars land then I wouldn't be going back this next time. This will be the straw that broke the camel's back for me.

 

[monothingie]

The system is not that complicated if you just don't try to connect lines back to prior models.

The system is pretty straight forward

1) You have a line...
2) When that line gets too long, Disney will close the line and ask people to come back later via the form of a standby pass. (this is the old 'deferred demand' portion of Fastpass). When people return, it's like standing in standby
3) Independently, Disney will be selling one-time use passes to skip the standby line. Pricing could be dynamic.

When they push that message alone - I think people would be able to digest it.

People can understand 'ride is closed, come back later'... It's basically that.. 'line is closed, you can request to come back later with a standby pass'

Or in other words, we’ll make the wait time even longer as to make the free option unpalatable in order to push people into a paid option.

 

[aaronml]

There is some irony here in that Disney trained people for decades to have a spontaneous day at the parks with traditional FP. Then they rolled out FP+ and spent years training people to pre-plan their trip months ahead of time. Now they are going to once again re-train people to have a “spontaneous” day in the parks with the new paid offering, while still forcing people to reserve which park they want to go to long in advance.