FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[Jedijax719]

How can a fast-moving line not be less time consuming??

Personally, if you’re not moving, it’s not any type of a moving line.

Some version of FP+ has 6 weeks to make its return before arrive!

If the line has many more people on it.

 

[LittleBuford]

People love to evaluate FP solely on how it impacts themselves IN ISOLATION

On this, at least, we absolutely agree. And as I said in an earlier post, "It seems to me that those of us who like FP are willing to accept that others (yourself included) felt disadvantaged by it, whereas those who dislike FP are reluctant to acknowledge that many did indeed benefit from the system."

 

[Chi84]

What makes the most sense to me is for everyone to say what system works best for them (and why) - then Disney can decide on a system that takes into account those competing experiences and opinions.

 

[flynnibus]

On this, at least, we absolutely agree. And as I said in an earlier post, "It seems to me that those of us who like FP are willing to accept that others (yourself included) felt disadvantaged by it, whereas those who dislike FP are reluctant to acknowledge that many did indeed benefit from the system."

I don't agree with your statement at all. I don't think I'm 'disadvantaged' by FP - I would rock it like the best of them. I just don't look at the theme park as just solely through my eyes, but how the whole system works together. Do not look at someone being critical or praising something as only being about their personal take. Identify if someone is being truly objective or not. I know that just because I may gain from something, it doesn't mean everyone does, and if I'm discussing the park as a whole and not just MY vacation... I will consider how it impacts everyone, not just me as an individualist.

I love the idea of diffusing demand to reduce average waits. It's the math answer to a simple system problem. It would work great if it were used that way, instead Disney chose to make it a lead use, and ran the ratios so high that instead of being a minor impact on lines, it buried them. Then when Disney made it a scheduled thing instead of a demand-based thing, they changed entirely to a reservation model instead a demand-shift model that FP was originally based on.

I do believe Disney has changed the park experience for the worse with the sum of their changes to how people plan, visit, and experience their day by making too much of it tied to schedules and worse... requiring fighting for availability. Vacations should be about relaxing, exploring, and being amazed. The current world of scheduling where you will be, when you will do something, when you will eat, where you will stand.. and having to do all these things far in advance... and SUFFER if you do them poorly or can't stick to it... is not what the lead vacation experience should be IMO.

 

[Chi84]

I like FP+ because it allows you to plan a great vacation so you don’t have to suffer when you’re at WDW. I’ll admit that the vacations involved some effort to plan, but they were completely free from suffering.

We have been visiting since before FP, and I let Disney know whenever they send a survey how much we appreciate being able to reserve our place in line so we can enjoy shows, food and other things instead of suffering standing in long lines.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don't agree with your statement at all. I don't think I'm 'disadvantaged' by FP - I would rock it like the best of them. I just don't look at the theme park as just solely through my eyes, but how the whole system works together. Do not look at someone being critical or praising something as only being about their personal take. Identify if someone is being truly objective or not. I know that just because I may gain from something, it doesn't mean everyone does, and if I'm discussing the park as a whole and not just MY vacation... I will consider how it impacts everyone, not just me as an individualist.

I love the idea of diffusing demand to reduce average waits. It's the math answer to a simple system problem. It would work great if it were used that way, instead Disney chose to make it a lead use, and ran the ratios so high that instead of being a minor impact on lines, it buried them. Then when Disney made it a scheduled thing instead of a demand-based thing, they changed entirely to a reservation model instead a demand-shift model that FP was originally based on.

I do believe Disney has changed the park experience for the worse with the sum of their changes to how people plan, visit, and experience their day by making too much of it tied to schedules and worse... requiring fighting for availability. Vacations should be about relaxing, exploring, and being amazed. The current world of scheduling where you will be, when you will do something, when you will eat, where you will stand.. and having to do all these things far in advance... and SUFFER if you do them poorly or can't stick to it... is not what the lead vacation experience should be IMO.

For what it's worth, I do think FastPasses make the total wait times shorter for all guests overall (except for those who never use them), so even from an "objective" and selfless perspective, I'm for the system.

As to your last paragraph, I believe planning has long been necessary for a successful Disney trip, except perhaps back when "slow times" were a thing. My first ever trip (to both Disneyland and WDW) was in 1991 with my parents, who were pretty clueless and didn't plan at all. We spent hours and hours standing in queues.

 

[flynnibus]

For what it's worth, I do think FastPasses make the total wait times shorter for all guests overall (except for those who never use them), so even from an "objective" and selfless perspective, I'm for the system.

As to your last paragraph, I believe planning has long been necessary for a successful Disney trip, except perhaps back when "slow times" were a thing. My first ever trip (to both Disneyland and WDW) was in 1991 with my parents, who were pretty clueless and didn't plan at all. We spent hours and hours standing in queues.

It doesn't have to be this way...

Nothing wrong with having a few key points set - like a dinner time, or a show time if you want to see it. When you schedule damn near everything and then make everything interlock so there is little flexibility... it becomes a burden, not an advantage.

The cruise lines have it right... they remind you constantly 'you're on VACATION... let us handle it'. On a DCL cruise you schedule your excursions in advance, which really don't interlock with anything, its just a matter of making your choices. You can schedule a few extras when you board... and that's it. You can literally decide morning to morning, or hour by hour.. 'what interests you today?'.

WDW was largely the same... pick how long your vacation was, how many days you wanted park tickets... and meal times if you wanted table service you'd get a reservation day of. Majority of food didn't need reservations, walk ups were a thing. Maybe book a tour or an out of the park activity for days you weren't just enjoying the theme park. Like golfing, boating, the Hoop De Doo, the dinner shows, etc. But the majority of your time was based on what your interest was, and you could adapt to changing feelings without consequence. Sure you could optimize your tour planning, but optimization is different from ball n chain.

Now people are being told to decide how many days to spend anywhere months in advance.. even if you've never been there! This is insanity.

People used to fear turning into Park Commandos... Well Disney is now the Drill Instructor barking at everyone to line up.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Coming soon

 

[Chi84]

It doesn't have to be this way...

Nothing wrong with having a few key points set - like a dinner time, or a show time if you want to see it. When you schedule damn near everything and then make everything interlock so there is little flexibility... it becomes a burden, not an advantage.

The cruise lines have it right... they remind you constantly 'you're on VACATION... let us handle it'. On a DCL cruise you schedule your excursions in advance, which really don't interlock with anything, its just a matter of making your choices. You can schedule a few extras when you board... and that's it. You can literally decide morning to morning, or hour by hour.. 'what interests you today?'.

WDW was largely the same... pick how long your vacation was, how many days you wanted park tickets... and meal times if you wanted table service you'd get a reservation day of. Majority of food didn't need reservations, walk ups were a thing. Maybe book a tour or an out of the park activity for days you weren't just enjoying the theme park. Like golfing, boating, the Hoop De Doo, the dinner shows, etc. But the majority of your time was based on what your interest was, and you could adapt to changing feelings without consequence. Sure you could optimize your tour planning, but optimization is different from ball n chain.

Now people are being told to decide how many days to spend anywhere months in advance.. even if you've never been there! This is insanity.

People used to fear turning into Park Commandos... Well Disney is now the Drill Instructor barking at everyone to line up.

It’s really not that bad - at least not for my family. We would be much more disappointed if we missed experiences that we looked forward to, and we love the freedom of spending the day at Blizzard Beach, getting to AK around 4, riding FOP, Safari and Everest with a stop in between for dinner at Tiffins. It’s really not that much planning.

I’m sure that people who hate reserving rides and find themselves suffering at the parks are letting Disney know. Disney is probably hearing from them as well as from those who appreciate the system.

 

[acup313]

Coming soon

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But what does it mean?

 

[peter11435]

Coming soon

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I think this likely has more to do with the upcoming concrete work under and around those machines than it does a FP return.

 

[G00fyDad]

I think this likely has more to do with the upcoming concrete work under and around those machines than it does a FP return.

You can just take that type of negativity elsewhere!

 

[flynnibus]

It’s really not that bad - at least not for my family. We would be much more disappointed if we missed experiences that we looked forward to

I don't mind reservations - I don't like when you have to reserve so many components that block and interlock.

Let's be real... you generally pick your meals based on what park you'll be in, or where you will spend at least half your day. So park+meals are more often interlocked. Ok, now that headliner attraction... what if you can't get it on the day you planned to be in the park, but only get it on a different day. So now that means changing your meal plans... oops, now you can't get that place you wanted except at an awful eat dinner at 4:30 or something, so now what. God help the types that don't do parkhoppers..

Now you gotta mix 'park reservations' and availability into that as well?

And that doesn't even account for 'Mommy, I wanna go back to Animal Kingdom!' on day 2... "sorry missy, you didn't let daddy know that 60 days ago, so we don't have any time to come back because if we did, Mommy would miss Sci Fi Drive In and you'd miss Frozen!" It just goes on and on. It's a PITA to schedule in the first place. You gotta pay obscene room rates to even have a CHANCE at getting the reservations. And it's inflexible and confining even once you do have it.

All this scheduling makes the customer less flexible and the 100% ADR non-sense eliminates the idea of flexing based on demand.

 

[graphite1326]

I love FP+! We are strategic with it and get to do all of the rides we love at each of the parks. I think I will be lost without it planning for our next trip.

Me too

 

[AMDPhenomX4]

You gotta pay obscene room rates to even have a CHANCE at getting the reservations.

Reservations even for October 1st for AP pop up all the time if you check often.

 

[Chi84]

I don't mind reservations - I don't like when you have to reserve so many components that block and interlock.

Let's be real... you generally pick your meals based on what park you'll be in, or where you will spend at least half your day. So park+meals are more often interlocked. Ok, now that headliner attraction... what if you can't get it on the day you planned to be in the park, but only get it on a different day. So now that means changing your meal plans... oops, now you can't get that place you wanted except at an awful eat dinner at 4:30 or something, so now what. God help the types that don't do parkhoppers..

Now you gotta mix 'park reservations' and availability into that as well?

And that doesn't even account for 'Mommy, I wanna go back to Animal Kingdom!' on day 2... "sorry missy, you didn't let daddy know that 60 days ago, so we don't have any time to come back because if we did, Mommy would miss Sci Fi Drive In and you'd miss Frozen!" It just goes on and on. It's a PITA to schedule in the first place. You gotta pay obscene room rates to even have a CHANCE at getting the reservations. And it's inflexible and confining even once you do have it.

All this scheduling makes the customer less flexible and the 100% ADR non-sense eliminates the idea of flexing based on demand.

Geez none of that stuff ever happened to us. I expect that if most people had that terrible an experience, FP+ would never have lasted as long as it did. In my experience, people don’t use FP+ to plan out every minute of every day, if something doesn’t work out they adjust, and kids are usually fine not getting exactly what they want the minute they want it. Especially if they’re at WDW.

That said, we do stay at the resorts and get Park Hoppers because we like the convenience. I think it’s just a matter of different people liking different things and Disney trying to make everyone as satisfied as possible.

 

[pdude81]

FYI: After park close those machines switch to saying "Offline"

 

[SoFloMagic]

Not 'choice' - it's gaming the system trying to gain an edge over the other guy by making sure you see availability the instant it's there. It's a trick to try to ensure you get to the front of the line. Is it 'allowed'... of course, but again the point is the outcome using this method is not typical of all FP+ usage.

That's not gaming the system. Gaming the system is booking pooh fast passes continually while its down then using the multiple experience passes to ride space mountain four times in an hour on Christmas eve. Which I'd know nothing about.

 

[flynnibus]

Geez none of that stuff ever happened to us

You never had to backtrack and redo your planning as availability for the components you wanted didn't exist? You never had a park plan get screwed up by weather or attraction break downs? Come on...

. I expect that if most people had that terrible an experience, FP+ would never have lasted as long as it did. In my experience, people don’t use FP+ to plan out every minute of every day, if something doesn’t work out they adjust, and kids are usually fine not getting exactly what they want the minute they want it. Especially if they’re at WDW.

Sorry, now you are using hyperboyle to create strraw men. Plan every minute? Disney is the one forcing you to plan the majority of your meals months in advance. Disney is the one forcing you to book 3 FPs in a park before they let you book another. Disney is the one mandating you say what park you will start your day in.

Kids not getting exactly what they want? My example simply was the idea people see something they liked, and would like to repeat it.. or heaven forbid something happen like a major attraction being down. When Disney pretty much locks you into mapping out EVERY DAY of your park visits.. these things are wrenches in the system.

 

[Chi84]

You never had to backtrack and redo your planning as availability for the components you wanted didn't exist? You never had a park plan get screwed up by weather or attraction break downs? Come on...



Sorry, now you are using hyperboyle to create strraw men. Plan every minute? Disney is the one forcing you to plan the majority of your meals months in advance. Disney is the one forcing you to book 3 FPs in a park before they let you book another. Disney is the one mandating you say what park you will start your day in.

Kids not getting exactly what they want? My example simply was the idea people see something they liked, and would like to repeat it.. or heaven forbid something happen like a major attraction being down. When Disney pretty much locks you into mapping out EVERY DAY of your park visits.. these things are wrenches in the system.

Honestly, nothing will convince you that FP+ doesn’t tie people down as much as you think. To answer your question, I’m sure our plans did have to change a few times, but we must have been flexible enough to deal with it without having it become a major problem because I can’t remember those times. The current system works well for us, but if Disney changes it, we’ll have to adjust.