FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was

[LittleBuford]

"FastPass+ Most Certainly Not Coming Back As It Was"

You're right. That thread title screams wait times to me. Carry on. Every time I see a new post pop up for this thread I think to myself "Is this going to have something to do with fast passes returning or is it going to be more people talking about wait times? Yep. More people talking about wait times."

But no. Go ahead. Keep discussing wait times. We'll filter through.

You yourself were discussing wait times in this thread just the other day!

 

[G00fyDad]

You yourself were discussing wait times in this thread just the other day!

You're right. I removed all of my posts that have help further that useless discussion. But feel free to keep arguing amongst yourselves. It reminds me of the Budweiser commercial "Tastes great!" "Less filling!"

The amusement of watching two groups with polar opposite viewpoints arguing their case with the same exact points only worded differently each time has somewhat faded. But carry on.

I'm just sitting here waiting to see if anyone actually has any news/comments to post about fastpass returning.

 

[LittleBuford]

You're right. I removed all of my posts that have help further that useless discussion. But feel free to keep arguing amongst yourselves. It reminds me of the early 90s Budweiser commercial "Tastes great!" "Less filling!"

The amusement of watching two groups with polar opposite viewpoints arguing their case with the same exact points only worded differently each time has somewhat faded. But carry on.

I'm just sitting here waiting to see if anyone actually has any news/comments to post about fastpass returning.

I can’t speak for others, but none of my posts here has been argumentative or combative. I’m simply sharing my own thoughts and experiences and engaging in what I consider to be civil discussion with those who hold differing viewpoints, which is what I thought such forums were designed for.

Anyway, that’s it from me as far as this strange tangent is concerned (ironically, you’ve taken us more off-topic than the discussion about wait times did).

 

[G00fyDad]

I can’t speak for others, but none of my posts here has been argumentative or combative. I’m simply sharing my own thoughts and experiences and engaging in what I consider to be civil discussion with those who hold differing viewpoints, which is what I thought such forums were designed for.

Anyway, that’s it’s from me as far as this strange tangent is concerned (ironically, you’ve taken us more off-topic than the discussion about wait times did).

Got me again. Carry on.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I totally accept that in your experience, the overall time you wait in queues hasn’t gone down with FP, and may even have gone up. But what do you say to those of us who’ve had the opposite experience? Isn’t it just possible that some users of FP really do save time overall?

OK, my last word on this and I'm finished with the conversation. You are making the argument that some users of FP really do save time overall. That alone is enough against it, shouldn't all have saved time if it were a true situation? Those that feel they saved time have to add in all the time they have spent trying to score the FP's that they wanted. That includes times that the website was down or frozen that you had to repeatedly attempt to open up to make those FP reservations if it was even possible. That is part of the time it takes to get on the ride.

Have they factored in the times that there wasn't enough time to make their window and ride something else and just sat there when they could have been in a line that was moving quickly because it didn't have FP at all. How about the time that wasn't fun because they found themselves on the other side of the park or had to leave lunch or dinner before they were finished because they had to make their window or had to mad dash to make and ADR in time. All that time is time spent in line even if it wasn't physically. If you are going to say that you are in a virtual line then all the time outside of that virtual line when you aren't participating in some other entertainment is time in that line and time you weren't using for rides. And then when you used up your three and you spent 20 minutes or so trying to find another useful FP on your phone. That amounted to time in the virtual line like it or not. No time was saved or so little that it really wasn't worth the effort. And I didn't even include the extra time you inevitably spend in a standby line made 33% longer by others using a FP that you couldn't get. It's just that you don't count it, however, it isn't time you will ever get back.

 

[LittleBuford]

OK, my last word on this and I'm finished with the conversation. You are making the argument that some users of FP really do save time overall. That alone is enough against it, shouldn't all have saved time if it were a true situation? Those that feel they saved time have to add in all the time they have spent trying to score the FP's that they wanted. That includes times that the website was down or frozen that you had to repeatedly attempt to open up to make those FP reservations if it was even possible. That is part of the time it takes to get on the ride.

Have they factored in the times that there wasn't enough time to make their window and ride something else and just sat there when they could have been in a line that was moving quickly because it didn't have FP at all. How about the time that wasn't fun because they found themselves on the other side of the park or had to leave lunch or dinner before they were finished because they had to make their window or had to mad dash to make and ADR in time. All that time is time spent in line even if it wasn't physically. If you are going to say that you are in a virtual line then all the time outside of that virtual line when you aren't participating in some other entertainment is time in that line and time you weren't using for rides. And then when you used up your three and you spent 20 minutes or so trying to find another useful FP on your phone. That amounted to time in the virtual line like it or not. No time was saved or so little that it really wasn't worth the effort. And I didn't even include the extra time you inevitably spend in a standby line made 33% longer by others using a FP that you couldn't get. It's just that you don't count it, however, it isn't time you will ever get back.

All I can say is that the scenario you’ve described in your post doesn’t accord with my personal experience of FP, which I realise is not necessarily representative of others’. How one used FP, and whether one enjoyed the demands of the system, played a critical role in what one got out of it. It seems to me that those of us who like FP are willing to accept that others (yourself included) felt disadvantaged by it, whereas those who dislike FP are reluctant to acknowledge that many did indeed benefit from the system.

 

[SoFloMagic]

So to get us back on topic, I saw on the voldemort site that some of the fastpass kiosks were uncovered at MK. I'm sure it's not a sign of imminent changes, but was wondering if it may be to test new branding on the kiosks?

 

[Crunchie9]

I love fast pass. Bring it back. DDP me !

 

[mikejs78]

And then when you used up your three and you spent 20 minutes or so trying to find another useful FP on your phone. That amounted to time in the virtual line like it or not.

I've never spent 20 minutes in my life looking for a FP. Usually it's a minute or two and I do it while in another line.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I've never spent 20 minutes in my life looking for a FP. Usually it's a minute or two and I do it while in another line.

Depends how many people and what attraction. But agreed, usually can accomplish it pretty quickly.

 

[KCheatle]

Sorry, but it's 100% the exact opposite. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. You have once again been duped by the time that you think you have saved in random attractions. You did save time on whatever attractions you had a FP assigned to you, but if you want to see anything else you will quickly lose that saved time because of others that have FP and making you stand in that dreaded standby line. Without FP you would have used the same amount of time to see more because you didn't have to deal with the road block on the standby line caused by the multi car wreak that is the Fastpass line.

I’m not even thinking about “saved time” or wasted time or line capacity or rate or whatever. To be frank….it really doesn’t matter what I think or don’t think unless I’m in the boardroom. Disney gonna do what Disney gonna do. I just want to know what it is so I can plan for it!! That’s why I 100% agreed with the meme.

 

[WDWTrojan]

So to get us back on topic, I saw on the voldemort site that some of the fastpass kiosks were uncovered at MK. I'm sure it's not a sign of imminent changes, but was wondering if it may be to test new branding on the kiosks?

We saw some uncovered in May. Don't think it means much.

 

[MJM]

FOR who? The people that dont use FP, the people don't plan or for the people that don't use FP nor plan, I never understood it,

Do people really care about everyone else's wait time. Am I that bad a person and everyone else is so nice they care for people's line time they dont know? Or is it they use FP and feel the other lines they themselves wait in are longer? That has never once been the case for me. Even if the other lines are actually factually longer then they would have been if FP didn't exist(and truly that depends on what attraction one likes) I don't feel it in the moment as I walk on the FP or other lines that day. I sure did feel not having Fp a few weeks ago.

Using FP with a plan I have never ever once felt my other line times were longer at all for any reason. Am I alone on this?

And if I sound like smart Alec ignore it, I mean nothing negative to you personally. You can want what you want, I respect that.

I totally agree with you. In the last decade, we have visited WDW every summer for a week and have never once waited longer than 20 mins in any standby line. We FP all the major attractions. Does that require some preplanning, well yeah of course as everyone on here knows but what’s a little preplanning when you weigh the pros and cons of waiting over an hour for those major attractions all day long never getting to ride anything else. We ride every single ride in every park so when someone says “for every standby line you cut with FP, it evens out in your long waits for everything else you wait for in the SB line without a FP” yeah nope. That makes no sense at all. I can see how it might make sense to the non preplanners and those who don’t want to put in the effort to reserve their FPs but the reality for this family is NO it doesn’t even out. Am I supposed to feel bad that I don’t wait longer than 20 mins in any standby line in previous summers? That makes no sense either and I absolutely don’t feel bad at all and why should I? It’s free to all resort guests! One might argue I have an advantage because I know how to get those major attraction FPs but anyone can do it. How do you think I achieved that year after year? Research it on the web and you will find oodles of sites dedicated to helping you figure it out. But yeah it takes some effort. But we live in a society where many people want something for nothing or feel everyone should be equal in what is “earned” and I just don’t agree with that at all. You work hard, you can get what you want.

Please Disney…bring FP back and make our WDW vacations so much fun again and worth the expense to take our family. Right now without it, we have no interest in waiting in those long SB lines

 

[Dreaming of Disney World]

For those of us with young kids, fast pass is a godsend. It would be really hard for my kids to wait in 45+ minute lines, even if they are constantly moving. With fast pass we typically wait 0-15 minutes. We easily get fast passes all day long and never wait in long standby lines. It makes the experience so much better.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Thoroughly entertaining discussion, I guess? Reality is with whatever Disney does, there's going to be a population that is happy, the other that is ticked. Going to a paid FP or no FP (not likely), would certainly impact how much we go back (family of 4), if we went back. I've never used Max Pass, but suppose I could stomach some version of that if it came to it and the minimal cost associated (not likely).

I'll help contribute to the data with the pre-COVID/FP+ era for the expert math whizzes out there. This was my day 12/4/19 (2 people).

View attachment 566066

All I can say is BRAVO! You are a true theme park commando!! If I did a run like that I wouldn't be able to get out of bed for two days.

 

[cslafferty]

Bottom line- Disney did not come up with the FP idea to make life easier for its guests; they made it so guests can spend money eating or shopping instead of standing idle in a line. I can’t see they will let that slip away. IMO FP will be back in some form. Whether or not it’ll cost $$ for us to be able to go off and spend more $$ remains to be seen

 

[onelove8187]

This is quite possibly the most fascinating debate I have watched unfold in a WDW forum. I for one, am an avid FP+ user and can agree with others who have stated that it has afforded me the ability to ride every ride I want, every trip, without ever waiting more than 20 minutes for anything (I did wait an hour for BTM once but it was my first trip and I didnt know any better yet). This being said, I understand that my experience is not typical and even though anyone could do it, the majority of people don't because they either do not know that this is possible or are not interested in the research/planning that is involved. That is ok, they are allowed to want their Disney World experience to be the way that they want to enjoy it. The question of whether FP+ increases standby wait times (i believe) is irrelevant, the only pertinent question should be either overall wait time (including standby + FP rides) per day, or alternatively, the avg total number of rides experienced by a guest normalized by typical daily total wait time. The mathematics modeling is impossible, as far as I know, to have anything resembling a full picture, simply because there is not enough data available to the public. Way too many assumptions need to be made that render any answer easily manipulated to the desired outcome. However, there is much that can be accomplished with theory which I strongly believe is at the heart of why Disney developed the fastpass+ system as they have (but they also have the concrete data to back it up with full analysis). I believe that standby wait times do increase with fastpass+ but likely only marginally due to the effects discussed here already. It is 100% objective fact that the rate of standby persons let into the ride is drastically reduced in the presence of fastpass, I do not know the exact numbers but recall touringplans data suggesting somewhere in the range of 4-7 FP / 1 standby. On its face, this would seemingly increase the standby wait time 4-7x, it does not. It does not because the pool of standby persons is dramatically decreased... and more importantly, if participating in fastpass+, a number of the people in that standby line are essentially in two lines concurrently... the problem is we cannot say conclusively how much this difference is. I understand that Disney's goal was two-fold. Guest experience has shown that a golden number of attractions per day needs to be experienced in order to be satisfied, I believe it is somewhere in the realm of 7-8. Also, standby lines are the only place in the entire WDW bubble that a guest is not available to spend money. Theoretically, FP+ solves both of these. Similarly, the virtual queue system utilized by ROTR has been implemented explicitly for this reason. Personally, I do not like this system because I feel that a guest that pays what they pay, wanting to experience this, should have the option to wait as long as they are personally willing in order to ride it... which would mean I likely wouldn't ride it lol. In the current system, its left only to chance. But from disney's perspective, it frees people up so that they are not stuck in a queue for hours where they cannot spend more money. Personally, if they move to FP$ at the prices rumored (100-300 per guest per day)... I will be devastated but will absolutely continue going to my happy place; I just expect to modify my expectations and maybe take the opportunity to experience other parts of what makes disney special. I can see splurging here or there for some extra access maybe on one day but it depends... they may be pricing me out- if at 100 i might do a day but definitely not at 300... family of 4 here! I do not believe that with highly reduced FP+, or none at all, that we will see wait times comparable to what has been present in the parks lately with reduced capacity. I also cant imagine how Disney could pull this off... many weeks of the year we see wild standby wait times (certainly inflated due to FP+) but I cant imagine guest satisfaction of waiting extraordinarily long lines for everything because they lack instant access to anything. I believe it would be a disaster. I believe Disney wants to have a system that maximizes guest experience while optimizing flow through the park and time free to spend money elsewhere... I believe that FP+ is the best available option right now. Could it be better? Probably, and I hope that this is where Disney going with any FP+ return and/or genie implementation. WDW is different, it is not Universal, cedar point, or six flags. We have always payed for FP+, look at your ticket prices! I see close to zero chance they move to fully paid. I think traditional FP+ will be brought back as it was at least for time being but also wouldn't be surprised too much if they come back with a hybrid system. A hybrid system could allow most peoples experience to essentially not change at all... they did 3 FP before and still do 3 FP now... while the super users (like me) will not have the same experience, well get 3 like everyone else and the rest of the fastpasses we typically blow through will be replaced with paying guests...

 

[DisneyCane]

@onelove8187 that was a very good post. I'd suggest some paragraph breaks to make it easier to read.

The point you brought up about people in the standby line being in two lines at once is the reason why FP slows the standby line to a crawl. However, it is likely that you end up waiting the same average time for both rides.

The biggest issue with FP+ is the headliners. For some of them it is near impossible to get a FP reservation unless you are booked for a relatively long stay at a Disney resort. As a passholder who rarely stays on property (and sometimes doesn't stay anywhere nearby), it makes it impossible to ride things like FoP in a remotely enjoyable manner. Standing in line for 3 hours that moves at the pace of a dying snail is not fun for anybody. On the rare occasions that I could score a FP for FoP, if the schedule could be worked out I would make a trip up to AK for the day just to ride it, hit a couple of other attractions, eat and drive 3 1/2 home.

Last week I waited 1:04 in the line for FoP and, because it was continuously moving, it didn't feel nearly that long. I could have easily done another half an hour without taking away from the experience.

It's a tough thing because the root of the problem is attractions that 90%+ of guest want to ride don't have the capacity for all of them to ride in a day, FP or not. The only way to change that is to reduce the number of people in the park.

To me, the better guest experience would be to raise prices to equalize the revenue but limit the capacity so that everybody who wants to ride an E-ticket can do so at some point in the day. For whatever attraction is the limiting capacity use virtual queues to limit people to one ride per day (apply that to any attractions that are close to the limiting capacity).

It is insane to me that, no matter what system is used, there are people who purchase a ticket for Disney Studios that are unable to possibly ride RotR. There aren't enough hours in the day multiplied by the hourly capacity. Either the rides need to be built to handle the crowds or a system needs to be used to limit the crowds so this isn't the case.

 

[onelove8187]

@onelove8187 that was a very good post. I'd suggest some paragraph breaks to make it easier to read.

The point you brought up about people in the standby line being in two lines at once is the reason why FP slows the standby line to a crawl. However, it is likely that you end up waiting the same average time for both rides.

The biggest issue with FP+ is the headliners. For some of them it is near impossible to get a FP reservation unless you are booked for a relatively long stay at a Disney resort. As a passholder who rarely stays on property (and sometimes doesn't stay anywhere nearby), it makes it impossible to ride things like FoP in a remotely enjoyable manner. Standing in line for 3 hours that moves at the pace of a dying snail is not fun for anybody. On the rare occasions that I could score a FP for FoP, if the schedule could be worked out I would make a trip up to AK for the day just to ride it, hit a couple of other attractions, eat and drive 3 1/2 home.

Last week I waited 1:04 in the line for FoP and, because it was continuously moving, it didn't feel nearly that long. I could have easily done another half an hour without taking away from the experience.

It's a tough thing because the root of the problem is attractions that 90%+ of guest want to ride don't have the capacity for all of them to ride in a day, FP or not. The only way to change that is to reduce the number of people in the park.

To me, the better guest experience would be to raise prices to equalize the revenue but limit the capacity so that everybody who wants to ride an E-ticket can do so at some point in the day. For whatever attraction is the limiting capacity use virtual queues to limit people to one ride per day (apply that to any attractions that are close to the limiting capacity).

It is insane to me that, no matter what system is used, there are people who purchase a ticket for Disney Studios that are unable to possibly ride RotR. There aren't enough hours in the day multiplied by the hourly capacity. Either the rides need to be built to handle the crowds or a system needs to be used to limit the crowds so this isn't the case.

You make some interesting points. I disagree that I would end up waiting the same avg time for both rides, I absolutely believe you reduce overall wait time through FP+; however, I can agree that for a local passholder, FP+ certainly disadvantages you when it comes to headliners like FOP. And tangentially, I could see waiting an hour some day for FOP where I never would have before.

In regards to capacity problems I disagree. I think that guest experience could be improved with lower capacity but it isn't going to happen by raising prices. they have been using that excuse for years. I do think with the park reservation system parks should be more adequately staffed. proportional to the crown size which should help. park attendance is only one side of the coin... park staffing is nearly as important.

I agree its insane. If they did traditional FP+ or standby only... I probably would not ride it without a fastpass which means I would miss out. But in that scenario I am choosing not to wait 3, 4, or, 5+ hours because it is not worth it to me... but certainly it is to some. Unfortunately Im sure it hurts the bottom line to have so many people locked up in a queue and lines that long are probably worse for public image than the lottery system is. Unfortunately, I think this is here to stay and will be the process for all the big upcoming rides as well.

 

[OldYeller]

You're right. I removed all of my posts that have help further that useless discussion. But feel free to keep arguing amongst yourselves. It reminds me of the Budweiser commercial "Tastes great!" "Less filling!"

The amusement of watching two groups with polar opposite viewpoints arguing their case with the same exact points only worded differently each time has somewhat faded. But carry on.

I'm just sitting here waiting to see if anyone actually has any news/comments to post about fastpass returning.

I think it was Miller Lite. I can't remember why I walked into the kitchen but I remember beer commercials from the 70s like they were yesterday