FastPass is the dumbest thing Disney ever did.

[AREM]

FastPass is rediculas. Allow me to explain.

I work at BTM. First and foremost, FP is a headache for EVERYONEinvolved. The guest goes and gets a FP at Splash, then goes and gets one at BTM. It won't give then a valid FP. They and moan to us. The guest is mad. We are annoyed with 300 people a day complaining about how unfair the whole system.

Second. Talk to any CM who has been in the company for awhile, and they will tell you that these absurdly long lines started right around when FP started. BTM never had a wait time over 30. On the busiest days, you MIGHT see 45. But then FP starts, and you have 60, 70, and higher.

Anyone agree/disagree?

 

[David S.]

I disagree. I'm sorry if it makes things harder for you as a CM, but as a guest it makes it SO much easier to do all the attractions I want to do!

Fastpass is the great equalizer. I can go to MK on the most crowded day of the year (such as New Year's Eve) and do everything in the park! Which would have been a LOT harder to do in the days before FP!

It actually makes "peak" season much more tolerable, and I can enjoy all the special events going on during the holidays, knowing I'm going to get my rides in because I know how to use the system.

Now, for those guests that you described who don't understand how it works, it might make things more confusing for them.

But I've never waited more than 15-20 minutes for any FP attraction in the FP age (and that's only when the FP queue is on the long side) because I always make sure I have a Fastpass!

Waiting in a 60 minute standby queue for a FP attraction when you could simply get a FP and go do other things is throwing time away!

 

[Timekeeper]

TrollPass...? :lookaroun

 

[DisneyBoi1215]

I disagree. I'm sorry if it makes things harder for you as a CM, but as a guest it makes it SO much easier to do all the attractions I want to do!

Fastpass is the great equalizer. I can go to MK on the most crowded day of the year (such as New Year's Eve) and do everything in the park! Which would have been a LOT harder to do in the days before FP!

It actually makes "peak" season much more tolerable, and I can enjoy all the special events going on during the holidays, knowing I'm going to get my rides in because I know how to use the system.

Now, for those guests that you described who don't understand how it works, it might make things more confusing for them.

But I've never waited more than 15-20 minutes for any FP attraction in the FP age (and that's only when the FP queue is on the long side) because I always make sure I have a Fastpass!

Waiting in a 60 minute standby queue for a FP attraction when you could simply get a FP and go do other things is throwing time away!

My thoughts on the FastPass system are that while it is an exceptional guest service to "skip the lines" as some theme parks like to point out, the overall system generally gives CM's headaches with people, like I have mentioned before in the scanning thread, trying to break the rules regarding entry to the FP Return line. Perhaps if the guests were made aware even further about the policy, then they wouldn't try to sneak by the CM.

I sincerely apologize to those guests that have came all the way from across the park to try to get into BTM or whereever early, but the policy states that you cannot go in early. Personally, I have seen some CM's make guests wait until the FP starts in order to go in the line, which is the proper thing to do. Sometimes, you really have no idea how long the FP return line is, so if you were to let someone in 20 minutes early, and there is no line, how do you explain to your manager why you let a FP guest in so early?

 

[David S.]

Well, I've personally never tried to use one earlier than the time listed on the ticket, but I'm sorry that other people trying to do that makes things harder for you guys.

 

[DisneyBoi1215]

Well, I've personally never tried to use one earlier than the time listed on the ticket, but I'm sorry that other people trying to do that makes things harder for you guys.

It is a blessing when we have guests that truly understand how the FastPass system works and know when they need to come back. And for those that read WDWMagic and understand completely, just know you have about 60,000 Cast Members who thank you each and every day.

 

[Timekeeper]

So, in terms of what's "dumber," you really think that FastPass beats out the "refurbished" Journey Into Imagination? Hmmm...:hammer:

 

[Krack]

FastPass is rediculas. Allow me to explain.
Anyone agree/disagree?

Completely agree. Fastpass does not increase the amount of attractions a person can visit in a day. It gives the appearance of increasing the amount of attractions a person can visit in a day; which is what it is designed to do.

You don't like standing in a long line? Guess what? It's longer because of Fastpass. Meanwhile, the uninformed guest is forming resentment at the person walking by him while he waits.

 

[David S.]

Completely agree. Fastpass does not increase the amount of attractions a person can visit in a day. It gives the appearance of increasing the amount of attractions a person can visit in a day; which is what it is designed to do.

You don't like standing in a long line? Guess what? It's longer because of Fastpass. Meanwhile, the uninformed guest is forming resentment at the person walking by him while he waits.

Actually, it does increase the amount of attractions I can do in a day! I know this for a FACT, by looking at my past "trip logs" I've made from the era before FP existed.

You say the lines are longer because of FP, but if you NEVER use the standby lines for FP attractions, and ONLY use the FP lines, they won't be!

Under the old system, there is no way in heck you can get a near walk-on for Space Mountain at 1 or 2 PM on a crowded day, but thanks to FP, you can!

In the old system on a crowded day, to try to avoid long queues in the peak middle of the day, one had to try to make a lap of the park early doing all the major stuff before the lines got out of hand, and then make a second lap doing less crowded things.

Now, thanks to the Magic of Fastpass, it is easier to tour the parks by "land" without all that backtracking!

Consider the following scenario where Tomorrowland is the third land a person tours, after doing Fantasyland (all walk-ons at rope drop, no FP needed yet) and Toontown. Let's say while in Toontown, they got a Space Mountain FP via the Toontown/Tomorrowland walkway, at 11 AM. The standby line is 60 minutes. The return time is 1 PM. Then they return to Toontown and finish touring Toontown in that hour, rather than wasting it in one queue. So then you have:

12 PM - Enter Tomorrowland, ride TTA

12:15 - queue for, and ride, Astro Orbiter

1:00 - since you can now get another FP, you get your Buzz FP. Standby 30 min, return time 2 PM. Then you go ride Space Mountain and are off by 1:20! Even in the days before FP, you would NEVER be off the ride this quickly at this time of day, on a crowded day!

1:20 - Carousel Of Progress

1:45 - Stitch

2:10 - Use Buzz FP and walk right onto the ride!

2:20 - Speedway, so now TL is done (I skip MILF)

2:55 - Enter Frontierland, get Splash Moutain FP, watch parade.

Well, you get the idea. By now, you're on the left side of the park, and the only other FPs you'll need are BTMRR and Jungle Cruise, which are NOT likely to run out anytime soon, even on a crowded day. So you keep walking onto things like the Railroad, Riverboat, Country Bears, Tom Sawyer Island, Tiki Birds, Treehouse, etc., while waiting to use your Splash FP, and the BTMRR and Jungle Cruise FPs you'll eventually aquire, getting walk-ons or near walk-ons on those three as well, when the standby queue is still long.

I think the system is nothing less than an ingenious Godsend!

 

[_Scar]

I agree whole heartedly when I'm the one waiting in line.

I disagreee when I'm the one bypassing the stand-by.


That's how everyone looks at FP and if you say otherwise you are completely full of it.

 

[Krack]

You say the lines are longer because of FP, but if you NEVER use the standby lines for FP attractions, and ONLY use the FP lines, they won't be!

This is true, I admit. The only way the Fast Pass system decreases the amount of time you'd be waiting in line (as opposed to before Fast Pass) are those people who only ride Fast Pass attractions (with a Fast Pass) and "no wait" attractions. Once you stand in a standby line, the benefit of Fast Pass disappears. Everytime you "queue" in your schedule, you're waiting longer than you would have if there was no Fast Pass.

Of course, most people (99%?) visit more than 6 attractions in a day and go on rides that don't have Fast Pass. So it's moot, anyway.

 

[Krack]

That's how everyone looks at FP and if you say otherwise you are completely full of it.

Just an observation, did you know I could guess your age solely by this comment?

 

[_Scar]

Just an observation, did you know I could guess your age solely by this comment?

Okay? :shrug: Your point?

 

[Krack]

Okay? :shrug: Your point?

1. I disagree with your comment (therefore, I'm "full of it"), and

2. Your use of absolutes in reference to peoples' feelings or beliefs or opinions, betrays a youthful world view of "The way I see things is correct, and anyone who possibly views it differently is wrong or lying" that most people temper as they become older.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

FastPass is rediculas. Allow me to explain.

I work at BTM. First and foremost, FP is a headache for EVERYONEinvolved. The guest goes and gets a FP at Splash, then goes and gets one at BTM. It won't give then a valid FP. They and moan to us. The guest is mad. We are annoyed with 300 people a day complaining about how unfair the whole system.

Second. Talk to any CM who has been in the company for awhile, and they will tell you that these absurdly long lines started right around when FP started. BTM never had a wait time over 30. On the busiest days, you MIGHT see 45. But then FP starts, and you have 60, 70, and higher.

Anyone agree/disagree?

Sorry, I am not a CM and as a guest I have to say FP is the greatest invention since the wheel. Nothing less. If other guests are to stupid to understand the system (I am sure that there ARE a lot of morons out there who just don't get it) it's their own fault. If they don't use it they are the only one to blame that they are standing in a standby line for one hour or more. Since FP was introduced I was able to do attractions like BTMR or SM, where I used to wait at least 30-40 minutes in less than 5. I did new attractions (new to me in 2007) like ToT, EE or Kilimanjaro Safaris with nearly NO waiting time at all. FP saved me hours and hours of waiting in lines. I love it and I never wait in the standby line anyway if it is more than 15 minutes of waiting time so I don't understand why people, who could get a FP complain about longer lines, it is their own fault.

 

[David S.]

This is true, I admit. The only way the Fast Pass system decreases the amount of time you'd be waiting in line (as opposed to before Fast Pass) are those people who only ride Fast Pass attractions (with a Fast Pass) and "no wait" attractions. Once you stand in a standby line, the benefit of Fast Pass disappears. Everytime you "queue" in your schedule, you're waiting longer than you would have if there was no Fast Pass.

Of course, most people (99%?) visit more than 6 attractions in a day and go on rides that don't have Fast Pass. So it's moot, anyway.

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. I NEVER use the standby queue for a Fastpass attraction on a full day unless it's a walk-on (at rope drop or near closing) and I go on MUCH more than 6 attractions per day, but how does my going on more than 6 a day make it "moot"? It's precisely because FP saves me so much time on the FP attractions, that I have more time to do non-FP attractions!

Even if I have to wait a little longer for things like Astro Orbitor or Speedway than I would if there was no FP (if you mean that there are more people in line for those now because they are holding FPs), this slight loss of time is MORE than made up for by all the time FP saves me on the FP attractions. Like Spike-In-Berlin said, FP can turn a 40 minute wait into 5. So even if the line for Speedway is say, a little longer because of FP, the difference is not THAT drastic! Even before FP, I remember the line for things like Speedway, Orbitor, Dumbo (when not done at rope drop) ALWAYS being long.

Likewise, there are numorous attractions, like TTA, Carousel Of Progress, Riverboat, Train, Tiki Birds, Country Bears, etc., that can pretty much always be counted on to be walk-ons/next show type of attractions both now in the FP era as well as before. FP is not making the waits any longer for these!

I don't want to get into an argument with you over this. If you feel that FP doesn't save you time in the big picture over the course of a day. you have every right to feel that way, and maybe in your experience, it doesn't help you that much.

But I am completely telling the truth when I say that in MY experience, it does save me time and get me on more attractions - and usually it saves me a LOT of time and gets me on a SUBSTANTIALLY larger number of attractions!

 

[Krack]

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. I NEVER use the standby queue for a Fastpass attraction on a full day unless it's a walk-on (at rope drop or near closing) and I go on MUCH more than 6 attractions per day, but how does my going on more than 6 a day make it "moot"? It's precisely because FP saves me so much time on the FP attractions, that I have more time to do non-FP attractions!

I misinterpreted what you wrote because you said you said you go in the Orbitor "queue". If you are waiting in a standby queue, you're waiting longer than you would if Fastpass never existed. On the other hand, if you're just walking on, it has a negligible effect.

When I said it was "moot" I was referring to the other 99% of patrons who do visit attractions that have lines (or who visit Fast Pass attractions on stand-by).

So even if the line for Speedway is say, a little longer because of FP, the difference is not THAT drastic! Even before FP, I remember the line for things like Speedway, Orbitor, Dumbo (when not done at rope drop) ALWAYS being long.

Actually, it is that drastic. That's not my claim, it's physics. People occupy space. If a person grabs a Fast Pass and goes somewhere else (as you, yourself, admit to doing in your itinerary) to wait in line, that line is now longer than it would have been if Fast Pass didn't exist. People holding Fast Passes do not just disappear from the park and magically re-appear when it's time to ride their attraction ... they go somewhere else ... and that line is now longer. Speedway, Orbitor, and Dumbo may have always been long, but they are longer today than they would be without Fast Pass; every attraction is (other than no-wait attractions, or shows that take in large groups of people in one shot, like Muppet Vision).

But I am completely telling the truth when I say that in MY experience, it does save me time and get me on more attractions - and usually it saves me a LOT of time and gets me on a SUBSTANTIALLY larger number of attractions!

The Fast Pass system is designed to make you feel that way. But you can not actually visit more attractions in one day with the Fast Pass system than if the park did not have the Fast Pass system (assuming constants for variables like crowd size, open and closing times, time spent eating, time spent shopping, time spent watching parades and sitting on a park bench doing nothing).

-----

All that said, I agree we shouldn't argue (I actually regret typing that up and considered deleting it). Neither one of us is going to change the other's mind; which is fine. We should agree to disagree. There's a couple hundred Fastpass threads that have thrashed this out over and over.

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

FASTPASS is brilliant.

With my FP in my pocket I can go and - stand in line for another attraction, or, go and shop, or, go and eat, knowing that when I've completed one of the 3 previously mentioned items I have a guaranteed walk up and ride ticket in my pocket.

It therefore DOES increase the amount of things I can achieve in a day.

It also means I am able to put more $$ into a Disney till by purchasing goods/food instead of standing in a line all day.

If people weren't so bl**dy ignorant or rude/cheeky, FP would not cause any extra work for the CM. Which bit of "Return Between Times" is so difficult to understand ?

Keep FP and educate the ignorant on how it works

 

[David S.]

I misinterpreted what you wrote because you said you said you go in the Orbitor "queue". If you are waiting in a standby queue, you're waiting longer than you would if Fastpass never existed. On the other hand, if you're just walking on, it has a negligible effect.

When I said it was "moot" I was referring to the other 99% of patrons who do visit attractions that have lines (or who visit Fast Pass attractions on stand-by).

I see. Don't get me wrong, I do visit the non-Fastpass attractions that have lines (Orbitor, Speedway, Dumbo, etc). I just feel that whatever extra queuing time I have to spend in these lines (if I do these attractions during the peak of the day rather than the first hour after rope drop or at closing) is negligible compared to the time saved on the FP attractions.

Actually, it is that drastic. That's not my claim, it's physics. People occupy space. If a person grabs a Fast Pass and goes somewhere else (as you, yourself, admit to doing in your itinerary) to wait in line, that line is now longer than it would have been if Fast Pass didn't exist. People holding Fast Passes do not just disappear from the park and magically re-appear when it's time to ride their attraction ... they go somewhere else ... and that line is now longer. Speedway, Orbitor, and Dumbo may have always been long, but they are longer today than they would be without Fast Pass; every attraction is (other than no-wait attractions, or shows that take in large groups of people in one shot, like Muppet Vision).

I honestly do get what you are saying here, but IMO there simply aren't enough attractions in the MK that fit the description of a potentially long wait that are NOT FP attractions to cancel out the time gained by FP.

If I do Fantasyland and then Barnstormer right after rope drop, any waits on non-FP attractions on those are a non-issue. So this leaves only Speedway, Astro Orbiter, and possibly Pirates and HM as something I will have to wait longer for than I would if FP didn't exist. I never feel like those waits are that bad, with Speedway and Orbitor probably being the worst, but the time I save by getting near WALK-ONS on all the FP attractions MORE than makes up for this!

Another pattern I use is the Tomorowland start, meaning Speedway and Orbitor would be morning walk-ons. I usually do Fantasyland and Toontown last on those days, and by then the non FPs rides like Dumbo are usually walk-ons or short waits. So really, the only "snag" of a "non FP ride being more crowded because of FP" on those days would possibly be Pirates or Mansion, which are usually not that bad of a wait.

The Fast Pass system is designed to make you feel that way. But you can not actually visit more attractions in one day with the Fast Pass system than if the park did not have the Fast Pass system (assuming constants for variables like crowd size, open and closing times, time spent eating, time spent shopping, time spent watching parades and sitting on a park bench doing nothing).

Believe me, I can, and I do. I really don't mean to be argumentative about this but I do several full days a year at all 4 parks, and I know for a FACT that I get on more attractions in the FP era per day than I did before FP. I have journals from before FP was implemented that detail what I rode on each day of various vacations, and even days with midnight closings at the MK before FP, resulted in fewer rides than I can get done now on a short day with FP. Comparing days with the SAME closing time from both eras (meaning the same crowds were expected and I had the same amount of time) results in more attractions for me in the FP era!

Of course, on a midnight close NOW WITH FP, (which means more crowds than a short day) I routinely get on more attractions than I do on a shorter day with light crowds now, because FP takes away much of the disadvantage that large crowds bring, and those extra hours really do add up to more attractions!

Perhaps the benefit of FP (IMO) can be more easily illustrated in a park like Epcot, where every attraction in the park that could potentially have a killer wait is a FP attraction. Universe Of Energy, Circle Of Life, Reflections Of China, Impressions de France, O Canada, American Adventure, are still all attractions that you'll be in the next cycle that loads, even with FP existing in the park. Obviously things like watching the live bands in World Showcase and the self-guided art galleries will not be impacted adversely because of FP.

So this leaves Spaceship Earth, Nemo, Figment, and Gran Fiesta as the only non-FP rides in Epcot where you may have to wait (and sometimes also Living With the Land, which no longer offers FP on non peak-season days). In my experience, the waits for these 5 are never that bad, and are often walk-ons. And even if you catch them at a bad time on a crowded day, I would contend that you still won't lose as much time on these as you would if you had to do Soarin' and Test Track WITHOUT a FP!

Again, I'm not meaning any of this as an argument with you; I am just drawing from my own experiences the positive effect FP has had on my visits!

 

[Krack]

I see. Don't get me wrong, I do visit the non-Fastpass attractions that have lines (Orbitor, Speedway, Dumbo, etc). I just feel that whatever extra queuing time I have to spend in these lines (if I do these attractions during the peak of the day rather than the first hour after rope drop or at closing) is negligible compared to the time saved on the FP attractions.

It can't be. You're at the Speedway in the queue ... see those people in front of you in line? Many of them are holding Fast Passes and wouldn't be standing there if there was no Fast Pass system (they'd be in the Space Mountain line). Now turn around. You see those people? Those people are now waiting longer because you wouldn't be in line without a Fast Pass system (you'd be in the Space Mountain Line).

As I said in the previous post, assuming constants (that the amount of time a person spends shopping and eating and watching parades will remain the same regardless of Fast Pass) the Fast Pass system cannot reduce a particular person's time spent in line in the aggregate (unless they only visit no-line attractions or Fast Pass attractions utilizing a fast pass).