Fastpass for deluxe resort guests only?

[spacemt354]

So if WDW had the option to pay for an unlimited FastPass you wouldn't have a problem?

No I wouldn't. Before extra magic hours they used to have E-Night, in which it was a private event that people paid for in order to enjoy the rides with no lines. I even think they had a limit on the number of tickets as well. If someone wants to buy a pass that is more expensive just so they can ride fastpass attractions with little to no wait, I don't see a problem with that. Now, I'm sure there would have to be some restrictions on that Park Pass. As it is right now, the typical guest who spends the whole day at a park might get 3-4 fastpasses, because of the rules and separation times in between each fastpass. So maybe the Fastpass park pass will have a limit of 10-15 fastpasses per day or something. But other than that if people want to pay extra for park admission, just like people want to take cruises and go to fancy dinners, I can't do anything about that. The only reason I had an issue with the fastpasses given to deluxe resorts was because the level of disney resort you stay at shouldn't have an affect on what goes on in the parks. Maybe people would stay at a value resort just so that they can afford the fastpass park pass? I don't know. I only disagreed with the crossing over of the quality of resort and the incentives of fastpasses that should be fair game to everyone, since everyone pays the same for admission. But if people want to spend extra to enter the parks, just like people spend extra to stay at deluxe resorts and enjoy all of the special perks that they provide, then I don't really have a problem with it. To me it's like going to see a movie in regular format or in imax. It's the same movie, but if people want to spend more money for imax to have the movie enhanced, then I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

[Goofnut1980]

Here is a question.. If we didn't have FP or the nextgen FP coming out. How would the lines be without people jumping in within that return time window??? Would the lines actually go faster?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Extra Magic Hours is something that is exclusive to Disney resorts. When I say resorts, I'm talking about disney resorts, I'm not talking about the holiday inn of Orlando down the street. I think it's perfectly fair to have extra magic hours for all resort guests, because it's part of the incentive for staying on property.

And a perk exclusive to Deluxe Resorts would be an incentive to stay at a Deluxe Resort. Same thing.

And the extra magic hours doesn't discriminate the people who stay at a value resort as opposed to a deluxe resort, because every resort guest has the same opportunity. There are off-property hotels that are more expensive and less expensive than disney resorts. So offering an incentive to guests that choose to stay on disney property is not the same as offering deluxe guests the incentive of more fastpasses just because they can afford to spend the extra money for their resort. Some families can't afford that kind of resort. We have to save years in advance just to go down.

Yes, it is the same. They are both incentives to typically pay more. Most off site accommodations are going to be cheaper than comprable Disney accommodations. Those that are more expensive than Disney are going to have their

And now you take fastpasses, a system that is offered on a level playing field to everyone with a park pass, and give extra ones to people who can afford a deluxe resort? It's not right in my book, and I don't see disney doing this anytime in the future.

It seems your real issue is that you do not think you could afford any such perks in the near future or with your desired frequency.

VIP tours and all of the other things that you had mentioned are not part of the park admission.

Staying at a concierge level at a Deluxe Resort does not increase park admission, but the concierges often have access to dining reservations set aside for their guests. That impacts your stay as it prevents you from making an ADR at the last minute because you are not paying more for a room.

No I wouldn't. [...] The only reason I had an issue with the fastpasses given to deluxe resorts was because the level of disney resort you stay at shouldn't have an affect on what goes on in the parks. Maybe people would stay at a value resort just so that they can afford the fastpass park pass? I don't know. I only disagreed with the crossing over of the quality of resort and the incentives of fastpasses that should be fair game to everyone, since everyone pays the same for admission. But if people want to spend extra to enter the parks, just like people spend extra to stay at deluxe resorts and enjoy all of the special perks that they provide, then I don't really have a problem with it. To me it's like going to see a movie in regular format or in imax. It's the same movie, but if people want to spend more money for imax to have the movie enhanced, then I don't see what's wrong with that.

The only difference is when and where the money is being paid. It is still being limited to those who can afford the option. If it is a Deluxe resort perk then it gets paid with the room. If it is available as an in-park purchase then that is when the money gets paid. It is still treating people different based on what is paid. It is also what Jimmy deceptively started this thread about. Universal Orlando Resort offers Unlimited Express Pass Plus to their current Resort guests but will not be extending this perk to the Cabana Bay Beach Resort. As of right now Express Pass Plus will remain available for purchase for all guests not staying at one of the existing three hotels.

 

[Disneydreamer23]

i agree but also disagree i am 23 have my own house 3 dogs husband well off but my vacation i don't get to stay at top end resorts so yes it would stink that i couldn't have fast passes like those that could but what can you do about it.

 

[menamechris]

Here is a question.. If we didn't have FP or the nextgen FP coming out. How would the lines be without people jumping in within that return time window??? Would the lines actually go faster?[/quote]

Yes. No question.

 

[spacemt354]

And a perk exclusive to Deluxe Resorts would be an incentive to stay at a Deluxe Resort. Same thing.


Yes, it is the same. They are both incentives to typically pay more. Most off site accommodations are going to be cheaper than comprable Disney accommodations. Those that are more expensive than Disney are going to have their


It seems your real issue is that you do not think you could afford any such perks in the near future or with your desired frequency.


Staying at a concierge level at a Deluxe Resort does not increase park admission, but the concierges often have access to dining reservations set aside for their guests. That impacts your stay as it prevents you from making an ADR at the last minute because you are not paying more for a room.

The only difference is when and where the money is being paid. It is still being limited to those who can afford the option. If it is a Deluxe resort perk then it gets paid with the room. If it is available as an in-park purchase then that is when the money gets paid. It is still treating people different based on what is paid. It is also what Jimmy deceptively started this thread about. Universal Orlando Resort offers Unlimited Express Pass Plus to their current Resort guests but will not be extending this perk to the Cabana Bay Beach Resort. As of right now Express Pass Plus will remain available for purchase for all guests not staying at one of the existing three hotels.

To your first two statements, no it's not the same. A deluxe resort does not "typically" cost more than a value or mod. It always costs more, and there is no disputing that. Someone off-property could be staying in a million dollar mansion, yet another could be staying at motel 6, but they both don't get the extra magic hours benefit. One perk (EMH) is exclusive to disney resort guests, regardless of deluxe, mod, or value, and the other perk, the extra fastpasses, would be exclusive to those who can afford a higher end resort. One perk is based simply on location and the other perk is based on how much you spend for a disney resort. It's not the same.

To your 3rd and 4th statements, you don't know what you're talking about. We have stayed at deluxe resorts when we go down. We have also stayed at value and mod resorts. If we wanted to, we could save up in order to go to a deluxe resort and recieve our fastpasses. But I don't think that is fair to other guests on disney property if we get fastpasses simply for staying at a deluxe resort and they don't, as I described in earlier posts. When you pay for deluxe resorts, you already get more spacious rooms, better pools, and close proximity to at least one disney theme park. Now what you pay for in resort quality is going to justify you getting ahead of everyone else in line?

Also, ADR's are available to reserve for everyone on the disney world website, or calling ahead of time on the phone. That's on you as an individual if you want to wait till the last minute to make a dining reservation, because you've had 180 days prior to make them. So it only prevents me from a dining reservation if I was foolish enough to not make the ADR ahead of time. I don't have a problem with that.

And to your last statement, yes they are being limited to those who can afford them, but it is on a completely different level. Let's say a deluxe resort costs $300-350 per night on average. That's not an exact number, it's just an estimate number based on what we have seen when we make resort reservations. And let's say a premium park pass with the fastpasses costs $140 per day as opposed to the regular cost of $90 or so a day for an adult. That is a huge difference between resort price and park pass price. Now, instead of someone being forced to pay $300 a day for their extra fastpasses, plus the additional $90 a day for the parks, they can stay at a value resort, save money, and buy the premium park pass in addition to it. If someone wants to pay extra for a perk in-park, by paying for something that is exclusive to the parks themselves. I don't have an issue with that. And again, this is all a hypothetical situation. I don't even think this would work because let's say everyone buys the fastpass pass. Now everyone is standing in the fastpass line, and the stand-by line in turn is actually shorter!

It was a matter of principle, which is how much you pay for a resort shouldn't justify a perk in park, where everyone is paying the same thing. Personally, I think the Disney fastpass system as it stands today is successful, for the most part. I think it makes the stand-by line shorter in terms of people, but I think the stand-by wait time is basically the same duration of time with or without fastpasses, because of the constant stopping and starting of the line. There are still sometimes where I think the line for soarin would go faster if there were no fastpasses. But not everything is perfect, and I enjoy the benefit of fastpass myself, so I can go enjoy the rest of the park, and then come back at my ride time with little or no wait.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Here is a question.. If we didn't have FP or the nextgen FP coming out. How would the lines be without people jumping in within that return time window??? Would the lines actually go faster?

The limiting factor in any attraction is its capacity, i.e. how many people can ride it in an hour? Once demand exceeds supply, a queue (a.k.a. line) forms. As the line grows, the total wait time increases. FP doesn't change the total wait time. It only changes how that total wait time is distributed. If FP were completely eliminated, the Standby line should speed up.

However, there's also the human factor. As a line grows, people tend to self regulate the length of the line. If, for example, Peter Pan had a 5-minute wait, nearly every guest would say, "sure, I'll wait 5 minutes to ride Peter Pan". However, if the line were 3 hours, many guests would simply not enter the queue. Eliminate FP and the displayed Standby line wait time decreases. As it decreases, more people will enter the Standby line, increasing the displayed Standby wait time. Would completely eliminating FP still result in the exact same Standby wait time for most people? Conversely, how many people would ride an attraction only if they had a FP? These are human factors affecting the length of a line that are more difficult to take into consideration than an attraction's capacity.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Yes. No question.

I understand the gut reaction is to assume that eliminating FP would somehow reduce wait times. However, in queuing theory, this is not necessarily the case. Yes, the Standby line would speed up but, as a result, the displayed wait time would decrease. As the displayed wait time decreases, more people are likely to enter the line. The net effect is that the Standby line wait time might end up being exactly the same. So eliminating FP might do nothing to reduce the Standby line wait time.

 

[lazyboy97o]

To your first two statements, no it's not the same. A deluxe resort does not "typically" cost more than a value or mod. It always costs more, and there is no disputing that. Someone off-property could be staying in a million dollar mansion, yet another could be staying at motel 6, but they both don't get the extra magic hours benefit. One perk (EMH) is exclusive to disney resort guests, regardless of deluxe, mod, or value, and the other perk, the extra fastpasses, would be exclusive to those who can afford a higher end resort. One perk is based simply on location and the other perk is based on how much you spend for a disney resort. It's not the same.

I never doubted that Deluxe Resorts cost more. That you pick that out, I do not know. Staying off site versus on site is very much a factor of cost. For most it is the less expensive option. For those paying more elsewhere, it is because they do not consider Disney the value for what they are paying for other amenities.

To your 3rd and 4th statements, you don't know what you're talking about. We have stayed at deluxe resorts when we go down. We have also stayed at value and mod resorts. If we wanted to, we could save up in order to go to a deluxe resort and recieve our fastpasses. But I don't think that is fair to other guests on disney property if we get fastpasses simply for staying at a deluxe resort and they don't, as I described in earlier posts. When you pay for deluxe resorts, you already get more spacious rooms, better pools, and close proximity to at least one disney theme park. Now what you pay for in resort quality is going to justify you getting ahead of everyone else in line?

Yes, I have seen you go on before about how often you go and where you've stayed. It is irrelevant because you just showed you're still having to save to afford these trips. That is what I think you dislike, the longer saving, and thus the emotional appeal that the only in-park dividing lines not associated with paid admission should be broader categories of hotel choice, Disney vs. non-Disney, instead of more narrow ones that would likely have a more negative impact on your visits.

Also, ADR's are available to reserve for everyone on the disney world website, or calling ahead of time on the phone. That's on you as an individual if you want to wait till the last minute to make a dining reservation, because you've had 180 days prior to make them. So it only prevents me from a dining reservation if I was foolish enough to not make the ADR ahead of time. I don't have a problem with that.

I get that, but it does not change that the number of ADRs is slightly held back to allow the concierges to get in people staying in concierge rooms. That is what works against your argument. Concierge guests get a perk in the parks based on where they decided to stay within the Disney Resorts, something you claim does not nor should happen.

And to your last statement, yes they are being limited to those who can afford them, but it is on a completely different level. Let's say a deluxe resort costs $300-350 per night on average. That's not an exact number, it's just an estimate number based on what we have seen when we make resort reservations. And let's say a premium park pass with the fastpasses costs $140 per day as opposed to the regular cost of $90 or so a day for an adult. That is a huge difference between resort price and park pass price. Now, instead of someone being forced to pay $300 a day for their extra fastpasses, plus the additional $90 a day for the parks, they can stay at a value resort, save money, and buy the premium park pass in addition to it. If someone wants to pay extra for a perk in-park, by paying for something that is exclusive to the parks themselves. I don't have an issue with that. And again, this is all a hypothetical situation. I don't even think this would work because let's say everyone buys the fastpass pass. Now everyone is standing in the fastpass line, and the stand-by line in turn is actually shorter!

I understand math. What is your point? You do not answer why when it is paid is important.

It was a matter of principle, which is how much you pay for a resort shouldn't justify a perk in park, where everyone is paying the same thing.

A principle that only extends to people who stay at certain resorts versus other places. It is a lousy, loose principle that seems to be based more on what would benefit your situation than one based on actual defined metrics or principles.

I understand the gut reaction is to assume that eliminating FP would somehow reduce wait times. However, in queuing theory, this is not necessarily the case. Yes, the Standby line would speed up but, as a result, the displayed wait time would decrease. As the displayed wait time decreases, more people are likely to enter the line. The net effect is that the Standby line wait time might end up being exactly the same. So eliminating FP might do nothing to reduce the Standby line wait time.

But what it will eliminate is people essentially being in multiple places at once. One can no longer occupy a virtual position at one attraction and a physical position at another.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Six Flags and Universal offer a fast pass for cash, unless you stay at one of Universals premuim resorts. I have absolutely no issue with staying at Universal's resorts for the perk of front of the line access, but you can't discriminate againts people staying at a Universal resort as well but didn't pay a premium price. Thats a slap in the face. If its a Universal resort, why isn't the value resort customer's money as good as the deluxe guests money?

Disney of course, does not do any of this, but if its successfull for Universal who is to say they won't?

I say nip this little greedy revolution in the bud before it gets that far.


Jimmy Thick- I shall lead you all.

Jimmy --



The fact is, there are perks with paying more for something...just like the flight people take down to Orlando. If you pay for first class, you get the nicer chair to sit on, better food, and more attentive service from the flight attendants. First Class also means you don't have to wait to exit the plane when it lands and you get off the plane first. You also get to board first. Paying for a first class ticket is much more expensive than coach and affords you lots of perks that are time-savers. There will always be people who see this as a valuable perk and will pay for it.

I see no difference at all between this and paying a premium price to stay at a Universal resort and then getting that free FastPass because of the premium paid. It's a thank you from Universal for paying the premium resort price...just like the amenities in first class are sort of a thank you from the airline for paying the higher price for a seat on a plane.

People can choose to fly Southwest if they don't want to fly an airline that doesn't have first class seating. I've never flown first class but I don't mind that it's there. I don't resent the people who get to board the plane first and to me the added cost of the ticket is just not worth it so I wait in line to board with everyone else in coach.

By the tone of your comments, it seems like you WOULD stand there resenting the fact that other people get to board ahead of you because they paid more. Maybe you should always fly Southwest then so that your blood pressure doesn't skyrocket at the airport.

Staying at the resorts should have perks. You can stay off property if you think it will be cheaper but there should be a reward for people who choose to spend their money with the company that owns the theme park. I think it's a great idea to say to customers "if you stay at our deluxe resort you get this extra perk in the parks". The deluxe resorts are probably a lot more per night than the off-property options and giving people line cutters is a very smart move by Universal to drive more people to stay in the deluxe resorts.

You seem really angry about this and you want to make it a big class issue but everything in life has added perks the more money you are willing to pay. This is how the world works. A fine dining steak restaurant costs more than McDonalds and gives you more courses and perks with the food because you are paying a higher price. 24 hours after eating at either place, the end result is the same though, and your body digests the meals and eliminates the waste with no regard for how much you paid for the food you put into your stomach. By your logic, someone "should" be able to walk into a prime steakhouse and demand to pay McDonalds prices and get everything they would if paying the premium menu price.

That's just not reality.

 

[krissyy]

I dont think its fair to have fastpass only for deluxe resort guests, but maybe having a certain fastpass kiosk designated for only maybe DVC members.

 

[Patricia Melton]

I say nip this little greedy revolution in the bud before it gets that far.


Jimmy Thick- I shall lead you all.

Universal is a business, not a charity.

A business needs to make decisions that generate profit and keep the business thriving. A business does not do things "to be greedy" and does not do other things "out of the goodness of its heart".

Universal currently allows the line-cutting for its resorts, which appear to be all deluxe at the moment. Universal has decided to get into the Value Resort market with this new hotel construction...but Universal has decided not to suddenly add hundreds (if not thousands) of new line-cutter passes a day by allowing the upcoming Value Resort to have this feature. By restricting the line-cutting passes to its deluxe resorts, Universal is making sure that only a set number of these things are possible every day.

No doubt, you'd be one of the people complaining to high heaven that because of the addition of the Value Resorts and the thousands of people given line-cutters there that suddenly there were many more line-cutters than there were before.

The problem with the entire Occupy Wall Street mentality is that very little of it is ever thought out. It seems like it's fun for some with this mentality to shout "that's greedy!" at a company without taking time to think about the business ramifications of decisions. For some reason, it seems that people under 30 who have not spent a lot of time in the work world don't understand that businesses are not charities and that keeping a business thriving is very, very hard to do. Not every decision will be popular...but there are no decisions made at a company where someone says, "Let's be greedy today!" and everyone in the board room cheers because they've found a new way to make your individual life miserable.

 

[spacemt354]

I never doubted that Deluxe Resorts cost more. That you pick that out, I do not know. Staying off site versus on site is very much a factor of cost. For most it is the less expensive option. For those paying more elsewhere, it is because they do not consider Disney the value for what they are paying for other amenities.

So what you are saying is that even for the people who pay more off-site than at a disney resort, it is because they do not think that the value of staying at Disney (extra magic hours) trumps the amenities they recieve off-site? That's fine. But then by staying off-site in that situation, you can't complain that you aren't getting extra magic hours. You made a choice to stay off-site, so complaining that it's not fair you don't have extra magic hours is a double standard. And that situation has nothing to do with fastpasses, a service that is offered to everyone, being given in excess to people who can afford a higher end deluxe resort.

Yes, I have seen you go on before about how often you go and where you've stayed. It is irrelevant because you just showed you're still having to save to afford these trips. That is what I think you dislike, the longer saving, and thus the emotional appeal that the only in-park dividing lines not associated with paid admission should be broader categories of hotel choice, Disney vs. non-Disney, instead of more narrow ones that would likely have a more negative impact on your visits.

How does the fact that we have to save up for a trip, much like a majority of other families, make what I am saying irrelevant? And I'm sorry, but I have no clue what you are trying to say in your last sentence. You keep trying to psychoanalyze what would I do and don't like about my visits. I think I've made my thoughts very clear. Even if my family and I stay at a deluxe resort, we would still feel bad that we now have access to cut in front of all star resort guests in lines at attractions, simply because we stay at a deluxe resort.

I get that, but it does not change that the number of ADRs is slightly held back to allow the concierges to get in people staying in concierge rooms. That is what works against your argument. Concierge guests get a perk in the parks based on where they decided to stay within the Disney Resorts, something you claim does not nor should happen.

Nope. It actually has nothing to do with my argument. Some concierge guests get a perk inside and outside of the parks to reserve last minute reservations. That privilege is not exclusive to in-park dining, it is for restaurants throughout disney world. If I had the opportunity to reserve fastpasses 180 days in advance, just like I do with ADR's, then I wouldn't have much of an issue with them being provided as part of a concierge package. But currently, that is not the case.

I understand math. What is your point? You do not answer why when it is paid is important.

If you understand math than you would realize my point was that it is a lot more expensive per day for a guest to pay for a deluxe resort w/ a park pass, in comparison to someone paying for value resort w/ premium park passes.

If the deluxe resort with the extra fastpass benefit costs $300 a night, then you still have to pay for your park pass correct? That would bring your total day spending to $390 on average. Now let's say disney offers a premium park pass to everyone with the extra fastpass benefit. Let's say the value resort costs $90 a night plus the $140 per day charge (an estimate) for the premium park pass. The totals are $390 per day compared to $230 per day. Multiply those numbers by a week long vacation and you are looking at quite a difference in expense if you open up that fastpass offer to everyone, rather than simply offering it for deluxe resort guests. Give people with more modest budgets a shot at the pass as well. Don't discriminate them just because they can't afford $390 a day for the deluxe resort and park pass. If you are going to give extra fastpasses, have them open to everyone, and have options open to an eclectic variety of budgets like the one I had said above. Don't just give the fastpasses to people who can afford the higher end resort. That had been my point this whole time, and again, I don't even think that system would work. I think the fastpass system disney has right now is just fine.

A principle that only extends to people who stay at certain resorts versus other places. It is a lousy, loose principle that seems to be based more on what would benefit your situation than one based on actual defined metrics or principles.

Again, I don't see how staying at a deluxe resort for the extra fastpasses benefits my situation if I would feel bad about cutting in front of others in line for attractions simply because I stay at the Grand Floridian.

If you want to think it's a lousy, loose principle, go right ahead. I don't think it is.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So what you are saying is that even for the people who pay more off-site than at a disney resort, it is because they do not think that the value of staying at Disney (extra magic hours) trumps the amenities they recieve off-site? That's fine. But then by staying off-site in that situation, you can't complain that you aren't getting extra magic hours. You made a choice to stay off-site, so complaining that it's not fair you don't have extra magic hours is a double standard. And that situation has nothing to do with fastpasses, a service that is offered to everyone, being given in excess to people who can afford a higher end deluxe resort.

Yes, Somebody who pays more to stay off site likely believes the offsite accommodations to be with the even greater premium. They make that choice and I doubt they would complain about Extra Magic Hours because they know that it is an incentive open to them that they decided not to take.

Just like if a FastPass type of incentive were given to Deluxe resort guests. "You made a choice to stay [at a Moderate or Value Resort], so complaining that it's not fair you don't have [FastPass] is a double standard." You're the one with the double standard.

How does the fact that we have to save up for a trip, much like a majority of other families, make what I am saying irrelevant? And I'm sorry, but I have no clue what you are trying to say in your last sentence. You keep trying to psychoanalyze what would I do and don't like about my visits. I think I've made my thoughts very clear. Even if my family and I stay at a deluxe resort, we would still feel bad that we now have access to cut in front of all star resort guests in lines at attractions, simply because we stay at a deluxe resort.

Nobody would force you to utilize an incentive. You're the only talking about principles and how its not fair and yes, I stick by my thought that you think it a matter of principle because it would more often adversely affect you when its a principle you admit to only apply to one subset of guests.

Nope. It actually has nothing to do with my argument. Some concierge guests get a perk inside and outside of the parks to reserve last minute reservations. That privilege is not exclusive to in-park dining, it is for restaurants throughout disney world. If I had the opportunity to reserve fastpasses 180 days in advance, just like I do with ADR's, then I wouldn't have much of an issue with them being provided as part of a concierge package. But currently, that is not the case.

It still has an impact inside the park, something you claim is wrong as a matter of principle.

If you understand math than you would realize my point was that it is a lot more expensive per day for a guest to pay for a deluxe resort w/ a park pass, in comparison to someone paying for value resort w/ premium park passes.

If the deluxe resort with the extra fastpass benefit costs $300 a night, then you still have to pay for your park pass correct? That would bring your total day spending to $390 on average. Now let's say disney offers a premium park pass to everyone with the extra fastpass benefit. Let's say the value resort costs $90 a night plus the $140 per day charge (an estimate) for the premium park pass. The totals are $390 per day compared to $230 per day. Multiply those numbers by a week long vacation and you are looking at quite a difference in expense if you open up that fastpass offer to everyone, rather than simply offering it for deluxe resort guests. Give people with more modest budgets a shot at the pass as well. Don't discriminate them just because they can't afford $390 a day for the deluxe resort and park pass. If you are going to give extra fastpasses, have them open to everyone, and have options open to an eclectic variety of budgets like the one I had said above. Don't just give the fastpasses to people who can afford the higher end resort. That had been my point this whole time, and again, I don't even think that system would work. I think the fastpass system disney has right now is just fine.

Either way you slice it, you're paying more for something extra. It is just a matter of when it gets paid. That does not help your argument. It just pushes it around to something slightly different that has the same outcome, those willing to pay more get more. The only different is when one pays. Universal, on whom this hypothetical is based, does offer Express Pass Plus as an up charge to those who arrive in time to purchase.

 

[Jeff456]

Would wholeheartedly oppose any class system at WDW it is nice that everyone still has equal access to FP.

 

[Clever Name]

Would wholeheartedly oppose any class system at WDW it is nice that everyone still has equal access to FP.

People with more money buy more expensive cars and bigger houses. The paid FP will just have more features while the free FP will have diminished features.

 

[spacemt354]

Yes, Somebody who pays more to stay off site likely believes the offsite accommodations to be with the even greater premium. They make that choice and I doubt they would complain about Extra Magic Hours because they know that it is an incentive open to them that they decided not to take.

Just like if a FastPass type of incentive were given to Deluxe resort guests. "You made a choice to stay [at a Moderate or Value Resort], so complaining that it's not fair you don't have [FastPass] is a double standard." You're the one with the double standard.

No, you're not listening. You have a choice to stay on-site or off-site. You know that if you stay off-site, there will be no extra hours for you, yet you can still enjoy the parks during the regular hours, with all the benefits included in the park pass, a la fastpass. When you stay at a mod or value resort, you stay there because the cost of the deluxe is not in your price range. The costs of off-site hotels vary. Sometimes you stay off-site to save money, yet other times there really isn't that much saved off-site, and people stay off-property because they enjoy it more. However, there is no fluctuation in the deluxe, mod, and value resort price range. There is no variation in prices like there is off-property. So your "choice" to stay at a mod or value is based on economics. Some people cannot afford to stay at deluxe resorts. And that "choice" is not simply because you feel the all star resort is better than a deluxe.

And I'll say it again. If you want to start crossing over extra fastpasses in the parks with resort prices, you are going to run into trouble. You bring up ADR's, and say it's not different. Well, it is different. There are restaurants in and out of the parks. They aren't exclusive to the parks. Attractions and fastpasses are exclusive to the parks. I don't see a splash mountain sitting in the lobby of the grand floridian. But I do see a restaurant in the lobby of the grand floridian, much like I see restaurants in the parks. I have the same opportunity at those ADR's as others. If someone wants to pay extra for concierge, so that they can have the ADR's at the last minute, aren't they still going to have to pay for the dinner that they reserved just like everyone else with the ADR? If someone in concierge makes a reservation for 5:00 pm at 4:45 pm, how does that affect the people who made reservations 180 days in advance?

I'm not saying what you are talking about is not true, because the ADR's are given to some concierge members of deluxe resorts. It just has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, because it doesn't relate to a fastpass for soarin. ADR's are basically fastpasses for everyone. It reserves your seat at the restaurant. Whether they hand out more ADR's to others, I don't care, because I already have mine, and the concierge aren't getting to eat any faster than me. Anyway, I'm not going to change your opinion much like you aren't going to change mine, so there really isn't a point in prolonging this debate.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, you're not listening. You have a choice to stay on-site or off-site. You know that if you stay off-site, there will be no extra hours for you, yet you can still enjoy the parks during the regular hours, with all the benefits included in the park pass, a la fastpass. When you stay at a mod or value resort, you stay there because the cost of the deluxe is not in your price range. The costs of off-site hotels vary. Sometimes you stay off-site to save money, yet other times there really isn't that much saved off-site, and people stay off-property because they enjoy it more. However, there is no fluctuation in the deluxe, mod, and value resort price range. There is no variation in prices like there is off-property. So your "choice" to stay at a mod or value is based on economics. Some people cannot afford to stay at deluxe resorts. And that "choice" is not simply because you feel the all star resort is better than a deluxe.

To argue that staying off-site is not an economic decision is just flat out nonsense. For most people it is very much a factor in staying off site.

 

[spacemt354]

The costs of off-site hotels vary. Sometimes you stay off-site to save money, yet other times there really isn't that much saved off-site, and people stay off-property because they enjoy it more.

To argue that staying off-site is not an economic decision is just flat out nonsense. For most people it is very much a factor in staying off site.

You are either not reading what I am writing, or you're just trying to twist my words around to fit your argument.

 

[The Mom]

"The costs of off-site hotels vary. Sometimes you stay off-site to save money, yet other times there really isn't that much saved off-site, and people stay off-property because they enjoy it more."

You are either not reading what I am saying, or you're just trying to twist my words around to fit your argument.

I think he/she is saying that there are amenities available to those staying offsite that not may not be available onsite. For instance, there are many who visit WDW for a long vacation (more than 10 days) who rent homes with private pools - not available anywhere in WDW.