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FastPass+ Disappearing on Some Attractions?

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
People who don’t want to wait in line for 73 hours to get on a ride.
The amount of total time waiting in line will not change, in fact the stand by line will continuously move there will be no delays and you don't have to find a way to kill time while you wait for your window to open up. The idea that you save any real time with fast pass is just a dog and pony show. What you save with a Fastpass will come back and bite everyone in the butt when they have to use a standby line that is held up because of the interference of the others using the FP line. It has been rumored that the FP system was set up to increase park sales because of time that needs to be killed while waiting. It was never going to save you any time during the day. In other words, that system was never to benefit the guests it was to create the illusion that you were saving time and increase the intake of money at the food and hard goods location.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
The amount of total time waiting in line will not change, in fact the stand by line will continuously move there will be no delays and you don't have to find a way to kill time while you wait for your window to open up. The idea that you save any real time with fast pass is just a dog and pony show. What you save with a Fastpass will come back and bite everyone in the butt when they have to use a standby line that is held up because of the interference of the others using the FP line. It has been rumored that the FP system was set up to increase park sales because of time that needs to be killed while waiting. It was never going to save you any time during the day. In other words, that system was never to benefit the guests it was to create the illusion that you were saving time and increase the intake of money at the food and hard goods location.
FP does not save the AVERAGE guest time waiting in line. But it is absolutely possible to be "good" at fastpass and beat the system, using it to come out ahead.
 

nickys

Premium Member
@marni1971 @Magic Feather So the idea of fast passes coming back is impossible to believe at WDW. But what about pay for Fast Passes at WDW, similar to DLP?
Is that what the "Alternative Access Entrances" would be for?
There are a couple of threads where the possibilities have been discussed. This is probably the main one:


But “Alternative Access Entrances” would cover all the current uses: DAS, VIP tours, Club 33, Rider Switch, “Guest Recovery” etc.
 

uncle jimmy

Premium Member
There are a couple of threads where the possibilities have been discussed. This is probably the main one:


But “Alternative Access Entrances” would cover all the current uses: DAS, VIP tours, Club 33, Rider Switch, “Guest Recovery” etc.
I'm aware and up to date on that thread... I saw this new one everyone is commenting in and the comments from both, sparked me to ask in this one instead of asking it in the main one. Should this thread be closed and moved the main one?
 

JusticeDisney

Premium Member
The amount of total time waiting in line will not change, in fact the stand by line will continuously move there will be no delays and you don't have to find a way to kill time while you wait for your window to open up. The idea that you save any real time with fast pass is just a dog and pony show. What you save with a Fastpass will come back and bite everyone in the butt when they have to use a standby line that is held up because of the interference of the others using the FP line. It has been rumored that the FP system was set up to increase park sales because of time that needs to be killed while waiting. It was never going to save you any time during the day. In other words, that system was never to benefit the guests it was to create the illusion that you were saving time and increase the intake of money at the food and hard goods location.
I’m only talking about the major attractions for which I actually reserve fast passes. For those attractions, the FP+ absolutely not only saves you time, but it saves you a ton of time. It’s not even debatable.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I’m only talking about the major attractions for which I actually reserve fast passes. For those attractions, the FP+ absolutely not only saves you time, but it saves you a ton of time. It’s not even debatable.
Your right, individual attractions are speeded up, but those are limited and sometimes hard to get. If you are only going to go to Fastpass in hand attractions, then you will indeed save time "in line". If, however, like most of us you enjoy other things at the park you will use up all of your time saving in a stand by line and what isn't wasted there will be wasted waiting for your FP Window to arrive.

Go only to major attractions and time them one right after another and go to nothing else you will be quickly in and out, but I will be willing to bet that if all attractions were single lined you would go to more attractions in the same amount of time. If you get FP's every hour you will be on the attraction quickly and then have 45 minutes to use before your next window. What do you do with that time? If you use your first FP when the window opens and plan on the second one toward the end of the second window, it will, at best be 1.5 hours and then it starts all over again.

What that makes an allegedly fun time in a Disney theme park a marathon of running and math. Somewhere in there you might get hungry or need to use the facilities further complicating the schedule. So calculate the time you spend running from spot to spot and include that in your wait time because that is exactly what you are doing waiting, just not directly in the line. Having experienced the original first come first served, one line system, the paper Fastpass and now the electronic FP, the single line made a day in the park much more fun and less exhausting. And, yes I know this sounds bazaar, but you could go to attractions one after another as you round the park hub.

Because of the unfairness of the current system all I can imagine is that first timers must feel overwhelmed with detail just with the needed requirements that they know of. The days when someone like me started going in1983 loved the experience so much that I managed to come back year after year, 38 years with 43 visits. I should point out that most of those visits were pre-Fastpass. When I had to spend time in the standby line, and had to witness the anger instead of laughter and saw FP holders run on by, some making insulting comments about the losers in Standby, the joy of the place dropped a long way down. Since that time I have limited my times that I go and how long I visit there. From 4 or 5 days in the parks to 2 days and the rest of the time at Universal or other area sights.

Knowing me if the confusing and tiring requirements had been in place in 1983 there is a very good chance that it would have been one and done. So return guests would be greatly diminished. Although, on the surface, that sounds good because there will be fewer people, no business has ever lasted forever without loyal return customers.

Edited to add content.
 
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JusticeDisney

Premium Member
Your right, individual attractions are speeded up, but those are limited and sometimes hard to get. If you are only going to go to Fastpass in hand attractions, then you will indeed save time "in line". If, however, like most of us you enjoy other things at the park you will use up all of your time saving in a stand by line and what isn't wasted there will be wasted waiting for your FP Window to arrive.

Go only to major attractions and time them one right after another and go to nothing else you will be quickly in and out, but I will be willing to bet that if all attractions were single lined you would go to more attractions in the same amount of time. If you get FP's every hour you will be on the attraction quickly and then have 45 minutes to use before your next window. What do you do with that time? If you use your first FP when the window opens and plan on the second one toward the end of the second window, it will, at best be 1.5 hours and then it starts all over again.

What that makes an allegedly fun time in a Disney theme park a marathon of running and math. Somewhere in there you might get hungry or need to use the facilities further complicating the schedule. So calculate the time you spend running from spot to spot and include that in your wait time because that is exactly what you are doing waiting, just not directly in the line. Having experienced the original first come first served, one line system, the paper Fastpass and now the electronic FP, the single line made a day in the park much more fun and less exhausting. And, yes I know this sounds bazaar, but you could go to attractions one after another as you round the park hub.

Because of the unfairness of the current system all I can imagine is that first timers must feel overwhelmed with detail just with the needed requirements that they know of. The days when someone like me started going in1983 loved the experience so much that I managed to come back year after year, 38 years with 43 visits. Knowing me if the confusing and tiring requirements had been in place in 1983 there is a very good chance that it would have been one and done. So return guests would be greatly diminished. Although, on the surface, that sounds good because there will be fewer people, no business has ever lasted forever without loyal return customers.
You raise a lot of really good points.
 

Pepper's Ghost

Well-Known Member
FP does not save the AVERAGE guest time waiting in line. But it is absolutely possible to be "good" at fastpass and beat the system, using it to come out ahead.
I don't understand the general sense of entitlement regarding FP+. "I love FP+ because I like to plan every step of my vacation months in advance and then I don't have to wait in ridiculously long lines." Ummm, those waiting in the standby line aren't inanimate objects, or cattle. Because you win, they lose meaning every person who walks in from FP is a person who has to wait a little longer and all because they like to plan months in advance. Those standby folks are people who paid to get into the park as well and also want to ride the ride. What makes one person so much better that they get to ride it with a 15 min wait, and most others have to wait 3 hrs? I'll never understand the logic and sense of entitlement of why people think that "FP+ is so great because I don't have to wait with all the losers in standby." Btw, I'm not quoting anyone. I'm just adding that for dramatic effect. :angelic:

With that said, if one would argue that everyone has the same ability to book FP, so if everyone does it everyone is equal, that would be disingenuous because the argument is that it makes the parks more enjoyable and that could only be true if there is a win to be had from the system.

How do you feel about people who zoom up the fire lane or shoulder in traffic to shoehorn themselves in front of a whole line of cars? I realize one is considered an accepted and legitimate part of the system, but it is the same sense of entitlement. Why should I wait in that long line?
 

JusticeDisney

Premium Member
I don't understand the general sense of entitlement regarding FP+. "I love FP+ because I like to plan every step of my vacation months in advance and then I don't have to wait in ridiculously long lines." Ummm, those waiting in the standby line aren't inanimate objects, or cattle. Because you win, they lose meaning every person who walks in from FP is a person who has to wait a little longer and all because they like to plan months in advance. Those standby folks are people who paid to get into the park as well and also want to ride the ride. What makes one person so much better that they get to ride it with a 15 min wait, and most others have to wait 3 hrs? I'll never understand the logic and sense of entitlement of why people think that "FP+ is so great because I don't have to wait with all the losers in standby." Btw, I'm not quoting anyone. I'm just adding that for dramatic effect. :angelic:

With that said, if one would argue that everyone has the same ability to book FP, so if everyone does it everyone is equal, that would be disingenuous because the argument is that it makes the parks more enjoyable and that could only be true if there is a win to be had from the system.

How do you feel about people who zoom up the fire lane or shoulder in traffic to shoehorn themselves in front of a whole line of cars? I realize one is considered an accepted and legitimate part of the system, but it is the same sense of entitlement. Why should I wait in that long line?
Entitlement means that one thinks they deserve something that others do not. That simply does not apply here. Taking advantage of FP+ involves no sense of entitlement. FP+ is available equally to everyone. Period. End of story.

Oh, and the driving on the shoulder to get ahead in traffic could not be a worse analogy. If you were arguing against line jumpers in a queue, that analogy would work. But it doesn’t for FP+.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Well, you must not have ever been to WDW during a peak time. And anyway, you sure as heck waited in line a lot longer than you would have with a FP+.

That's actually not necessarily true.

Of course you waited less time for the 3 FP+ rides you scheduled, but you likely waited much longer for any other ride you went on that day. It's possible the overall difference was negligible or that you were actually worse off -- especially in DHS or AK where basically every ride has long lines and tons of FP+ reservations that make the standby lines that much longer.
 

JusticeDisney

Premium Member
That's actually not necessarily true.

Of course you waited less time for the 3 FP+ rides you scheduled, but you likely waited much longer for any other ride you went on that day. It's possible the overall difference was negligible or that you were actually worse off.
You’re not following what I said. I said that FP+ cuts the wait times WAY down when you consider only the 3 or 4 major attractions for which you use them. Not everyone spends all day at a park and tries to ride every ride in the place. There are plenty of times in which we hit a park for just a few hours. We walk around, get some food, see a show, and hit our 3 or 4 FP+ selections. In those situations, the value of FP+ cannot be overstated.
 

Pepper's Ghost

Well-Known Member
Entitlement means that one thinks they deserve something that others do not. That simply does not apply here. Taking advantage of FP+ involves no sense of entitlement. FP+ is available equally to everyone. Period. End of story.

Oh, and the driving on the shoulder to get ahead in traffic could not be a worse analogy. If you were arguing against line jumpers in a queue, that analogy would work. But it doesn’t for FP+.
First and foremost, I mean no disrespect.

Your first point, like I said in my post, is disingenuous. If all are equal, then there is no reason for FP+ because everyone comes out equal in the end. We both know that's not true though because some know the system better, hence their sense of entitlement because since they know the system better, they get an advantage.

I admitted the second point wasn't a great analogy because FP+ is Disney sponsored system, and not illegal, but the sense of entitlement is very similar.
 

JusticeDisney

Premium Member
First and foremost, I mean no disrespect.

Your first point, like I said in my post, is disingenuous. If all are equal, then there is no reason for FP+ because everyone comes out equal in the end. We both know that's not true though because some know the system better, hence their sense of entitlement because since they know the system better, they get an advantage.

I admitted the second point wasn't a great analogy because FP+ is Disney sponsored system, and not illegal, but the sense of entitlement is very similar.
I also mean no disrespect, but I’m pretty sure you don’t understand the meaning of the word entitlement. There is simply nothing entitled about choosing to participate in a system that is open and 100% equal for every person.

By your “logic,” someone who scores tickets to a sold out concert would be “entitled” because they knew to get online and keep hitting the refresh button the second tickets went on sale, while someone else might not have been aware enough that they had that option.
 

Pepper's Ghost

Well-Known Member
I also mean no disrespect, but I’m pretty sure you don’t understand the meaning of the word entitlement. There is simply nothing entitled about choosing to participate in a system that is open and 100% equal for every person.

By your “logic,” someone who scores tickets to a sold out concert would be “entitled” because they knew to get online and keep hitting the refresh button the second tickets went on sale, while someone else might not have been aware enough that they had that option.
I agreed my analogy wasn't perfect, but I believe your analogy doesn't work either. In that scenario, people who didn't get tickets to the concert didn't also pay to get in. They got nothing, but lost nothing. At Disney, standyby folk paid the same or similar prices to get into the same park to ride the same ride, but people who know the FP+ system better get an inexplicable advantage for the same price.
 

JusticeDisney

Premium Member
I agreed my analogy wasn't perfect, but I believe your analogy doesn't work either. In that scenario, people who didn't get tickets to the concert didn't also pay to get in. They got nothing, but lost nothing. At Disney, standyby folk paid the same or similar prices to get into the same park to ride the same ride, but people who know the FP+ system better get an inexplicable advantage for the same price.
What’s so intricate and difficult about the FP system? You go online at the 60-day mark and book what you want. I’m sorry, but you’re wrong when you say people get an advantage. Everyone pays the same price to get in and everyone has the same exact opportunity to book a fast pass. It really is that simple.

You want a different analogy? Okay. If you and I go to the same restaurant and I ask for a particular bottle of wine that you don’t know enough to ask for because I saw it listed on the specials menu and you did not, that doesn’t mean I’m entitled. It means you need to do a better job. Don’t blame others or call them entitled just because they took advantage of something that you had every opportunity to take advantage of yourself but simply failed to do so.
 

Pepper's Ghost

Well-Known Member
What’s so intricate and difficult about the FP system? You go online at the 60-day mark and book what you want. I’m sorry, but you’re wrong when you say people get an advantage. Everyone pays the same price to get in and everyone has the same exact opportunity to book a fast pass. It really is that simple.

You want a different analogy? Okay. If you and I go to the same restaurant and I ask for a particular bottle of wine that you don’t know enough to ask for because I saw it listed on the specials menu and you did not, that doesn’t mean I’m entitled. It means you need to do a better job. Don’t blame others or call them entitled just because they took advantage of something that you had every opportunity to take advantage of yourself but simply failed to do so.
Again, respectfully, I don't agree with your points, but I know I won't change your mind about FP, and likewise. Agree to disagree.
 

JusticeDisney

Premium Member
Again, respectfully, I don't agree with your points, but I know I won't change your mind about FP, and likewise. Agree to disagree.
Trust me, I’m trying to understand your perspective. I promise you, I have zero problem admitting when I am wrong about something. And yes, that happens far too often for my liking, lol! I just don’t get how you feel like a sense of entitlement is at play here. I get it if you simply don’t like the system. But entitlement??? Anyway, as you said, agree to disagree. Have a great rest of your night, my friend!
 

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