Fastpass+, a solution to "overwhelmingly negative" responses from families

[WDW1974]

Yeah... Since you disagree it can't possibly be true. Disney must intentionally be doing things to screw up the guest experience. That makes way more sense.

Based on the last decade of visiting WDW and UNI and SW and every other Disney resort on the globe, yeah, I'd say your statement meant in sarcasm is pretty close to being accurate.

 

[RunnerEd]

"Most terrifying experience?" As a Marine Corps and Army veteran, I can't even shake my head at that level of hyperbole. That is absolutely #$%$% %%^&^%$ !!@#ing STUPID. Unless you lost a family member (accidental type of experience like happened very recently) or got separated from a child at WDW, nothing at that place should ever be characterized as terrifying. If anyone who answered the survey in that manner would like to come with me to Afghanistan next month, I'll be more than happy to let them see a few terrifying experiences. Candy ....

 

[WDW1974]

There are dumb and/or uninformed guests under the current system already. It's probably easier to explain "download this app" than "run to Midway Mania as fast as you can and put your room key in a machine and it prints out a ticket that says when you can come back." This is an app-driven culture. People will "get it" because it's how they work, study, read, and communicate already.

Yep.

WDW, we've got an APP for that!

 

[SirLink]

Yeah... Since you disagree it can't possibly be true. Disney must intentionally be doing things to screw up the guest experience. That makes way more sense.

Disney does stupid things all the time. Fastpass was and still is stupid, this is simply a "tryin' fix" a broken concept...

 

[GrumpyFan]

One of the most interesting points he touched upon was just why Disney has decided to implement this program and allow Fastpasses to be reserved so far in advanced. The reason? Parents who were surveyed about their experience and perception of the Disney Parks "overwhelmingly" said that it was "the most terrifying experience of their life." These are the words he used, unaltered. Parents said this because they know they will have to split up their family in a park of thousands, having people do other things while Mom gets Fastpasses and Dad goes to wait in line to get something to eat with the kids. This creates a vacation of nothing but stress, and Disney (World, more than anywhere else) has been in a sort of crisis-mode trying to figure out just how to handle this. Thus, the implementation of My Disney Experience, Fastpass+, and Dining programs which allows you to have things planned far in advanced, thus allowing the family to stay together.

While the magic is there for the kids, it's simply not there for the adults. At least, that's according to the "overwhelmingly" negative responses from parents about going to Disney on vacation.

I'm curious if the words in bold are yours, or paraphrased by you on what he said? I ask because it sounds somewhat hypothetical, and just doesn't make sense. There is nothing in the current FP system that requires people to split up in order to get FPs. Certainly some families will, in order to snag a high demand FP, such as TSMM, but most that I've seen, just flow thru the parks, and then everybody goes and gets their FP together, especially those with younger ones. So, I think that argument is somewhat bogus.

My understanding of one of the many reasons for FP+ (advanced FastPasses), was to reduce the number of complaints from parents/guests when they were unable to ride their favorite attraction, mostly due to large crowds and long lines. So, to alleviate this, they came up with a reservation system, that would all but guarantee guests a spot on the attraction.

 

[WDW1974]

Disney does stupid things all the time. Fastpass was and still is stupid, this is simply a fix to a broken concept...

Congrats, good Sir on the 1000 (now 1001 likes!) ... I don't know how broken a concept FP is. I do know that I visited Disney theme parks from 1974-1999 without FP and got along just fine. I do know that 'long lines' is one of the biggest complaints Disney gets in guest feedback. Of course, high prices is right up there as well and you don't see Disney trying to 'fix' that do you? Do you think they'd say their prices are even a problem at all?

Understand MM+ is all about squeezing current guests for more money for the same tired product. Helping guests -- very arguably -- get more out of their days may well be a byproduct. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

 

[Unplugged]

The "best" solution would be to eliminate FP/FP+ completely. Let everyone stand in line the old fashioned way. Ultimately, FP+ does not increase ride capacity; it only changes how the wait time is distributed. For every attraction I get on quicker using FP+ there will be 4 or 5 attractions that I stand in line longer because of FP+.

Your observation is very correct. Anyone here can moan about it being nonsense. However, my statement is not coming from educated Disney travelers like ourselves. My statement is based on the numerous people I have helped plan their first visit. Most people find the process very stressful and difficult to navigate as information is all over the place (this site, other sites, Disney's site, friends, agents, etc.). The complexity of which really became bad with the deployment of FastPass. While FP seems like a logical idea in an effort to optimize time for those who know what they want to do and allowing them to ensure a place in line for hard to ride attractions, it is surprisingly tough for the true newbie.

While FP+ seems to offer some relief, in other aspects it's building on the problem. Now newbies think everything has to be planned out months in advance. I hear it said in person, I see it posted on this site and others, etc. The ability to pre-plan is a love hate relationship and I think, that while Disney had best intentions for this technology, it simply confuses or frustrates many folks far more then it helps. Can't tell you how many posts I've read hear confirming my exact comments.

For the record, I can go with or without FP. Honestly, while I find FP+ intriguing, I am a little tired of not being able to walk up to a line (food or attraction) and know that the line I see before me is the only queued visitors I need worry about.

 

[flynnibus]

This creates a vacation of nothing but stress, and Disney (World, more than anywhere else) has been in a sort of crisis-mode trying to figure out just how to handle this. Thus, the implementation of My Disney Experience, Fastpass+, and Dining programs which allows you to have things planned far in advanced, thus allowing the family to stay together.

So out of a room full of 'engineers' did no one ask

'If their problem was splitting up, why did you add advanced reservation instead of just offering the ability to collect a FP on-demand from the smart phone or from a convenient location in the park?'

His story doesn't support the need for advance reservations - it could have been solved without advanced reservations. Surely a room full of students have at least that much deductive power between them.

 

[muteki]

I'm certain the overwhelmingly negative responses were true, to an extent. There is a great number of people that visit that literally have no idea what they are doing/getting into and don't put any effort into figuring it out beforehand. MM+/FP+ will be a great equalizer that will remove some of the stress from guests....at the expense of everyone else that knows what they are doing.

And this is all assuming that the general public that still has issues with old FP/touring the parks in general will even be willing to put forth the planning effort MM+/FP+ will require, when they weren't willing/able to do it before either.

 

[flynnibus]

Fastpass was their most terrifying experience?

If you step back.. you do realize a lot of people find a Disney trip overwelming and confusing. I doubt the comments were along the lines of fear of life or limb

 

[WondersOfLife]

If Disney didn't have fastpasses, I would assure you that me and many many other people I know wouldn't even bother to visit Disney World. I hate waiting in line for up to 30 minutes for a 2 minute and 30 second ride that I've already been on numerous times. Without fastpass I wouldn't be able to do every single ride that I want to ride within the day.

So I don't think it's fastpass's fault that you do have the option to get on immediately, but you just choose to stand in the regular line. That's fine with me. Less people taking my fastpasses :3 I'm in love with the system and I know how to use it 8) Other people just don't know how to run it I guess.. thus creating that "stress" feeling..

 

[SirLink]

Congrats, good Sir on the 1000 (now 1001 likes!) ... I don't know how broken a concept FP is. I do know that I visited Disney theme parks from 1974-1999 without FP and got along just fine. I do know that 'long lines' is one of the biggest complaints Disney gets in guest feedback. Of course, high prices is right up there as well and you don't see Disney trying to 'fix' that do you? Do you think they'd say their prices are even a problem at all?

Understand MM+ is all about squeezing current guests for more money for the same tired product. Helping guests -- very arguably -- get more out of their days may well be a byproduct. We'll have to wait and see on that one.

Thank you kind Spirit, I would say if lines are long ... open that big checkbook and create new attractions and experiences - actually expand your park(not replace things) ... that is a good - non stat BS way of fixing that problem.

Totally agree on MM+, thing is they wouldn't have to if there was more unique merchandise per land per park ... as well as higher grade limited merchandise ... not Disney "oh stick 1000 LTD, on this" but good/quality high quality merchandise for adults that celebrate the theme parks.

 

[flynnibus]

If Disney didn't have fastpasses, I would assure you that me and many many other people I know wouldn't even bother to visit Disney World. I hate waiting in line for up to 30 minutes for a 2 minute and 30 second ride that I've already been on numerous times. Without fastpass I wouldn't be able to do every single ride that I want to ride within the day.

But that's because its the only way you know...

I hate waiting for the meal to arrive.. but if the payoff is worth the investment you'll do it. Same with attractions.. you'll wait if the payoff is worth the investment of the wait.

 

[pjammer]

Thank you kind Spirit, I would say if lines are long ... open that big checkbook and create new attractions and experiences - actually expand your park(not replace things) ... that is a good - non stat BS way of fixing that problem.

Totally agree on MM+, thing is they wouldn't have to if there was more unique merchandise per land per park ... as well as higher grade limited merchandise ... not Disney "oh stick 1000 LTD, on this" but good/quality high quality merchandise for adults that celebrate the theme parks.

This was already tried. Magic Kingdom had tons of omni movers and rides as did Epcot and still had long lines. They build more rides and parks to relieve the stress off of MK. It still has long lines. You could build as many rides and parks as you want and the lines will exists. At least FP gives you a free alternative. I remember waiting in those 90 minute lines for splash mnt in the mid 90s and they had extended queue all over the bridge and heading into adventureland. I just don't get the logic.

 

[SirLink]

This was already tried. Magic Kingdom had tons of omni movers and rides as did Epcot and still had long lines. They build more rides and parks to relieve the stress off of MK. It still has long lines. You could build as many rides and parks as you want and the lines will exists. At least FP gives you a free alternative. I remember waiting in those 90 minute lines for splash mnt in the mid 90s and they had extended queue all over the bridge and heading into adventureland. I just don't get the logic.

They have never opened an attraction seen lines are long and 3 months later start building a new attraction though even if it was a lower ticket attraction...

 

[pjammer]

They have never opened an attraction seen lines are long and 3 months later start building a new attraction though even if it was a lower ticket attraction...

If those are your expectations then you should just quit coming. As the Number 1 vacation destination in the US and Parks and Resorts being minimal income brining in the larger Disney Co, that's just not possible. I wish it was but the shareholders would throw a fit.

 

[SirLink]

If those are your expectations then you should just quit coming. As the Number 1 vacation destination in the US and Parks and Resorts being minimal income brining in the larger Disney Co, that's just not possible. I wish it was but the shareholders would throw a fit.

And I'm not talking no wait - I think people can queue for 90 minutes reasonably, or if Disney didn't waste money, or if Disney just ignored shareholders and did what they feel is good for business...

Of course it is possible it is just Disney as stopped 'thinking big'

 

[DrewmanS]

Disney does stupid things all the time. Fastpass was and still is stupid, this is simply a "tryin' fix" a broken concept...

The execution may not always be perfect, but the concept of FP is well established in many industries. Instead of large crowds waiting in long lines for the most popular rides, you take some of those people out of line and spread them out over other rides with shorter lines or eating/shopping. This line leveling actually increases the capacity of the park by better utilization of rides and reduces total average wait times.

Disney has done this for years with Parades. People get out of line and spread out to watch a parade. This creates shorter lines during the parade. Then when it's over, people tend go to the nearest ride. This creates line leveling.

Does no one remember how mad you would get after standing in line for an hour only to have a large group push their way to the front to "catch up" to the person holding their spot? This was FP created by the masses.

You might think that wait times are much longer for those doing standby lines, but that is only because all of those people are not standing in front of you and the line is not out the door in the hot Florida sun.

The issue is, once people get use to a system, they start figuring out how to gain an advantage. They split up to get more FP,they use them outside of the time window, they try to use expired FP, etc. So now Disney has to come up with ways of preventing people from gaming the system.

Enforce time windows, use of FP will be linked to RFID and tracked electronically, you can schedule some FP in advance, and who knows what else.

The trick is balancing scheduling in advance, scheduling the day of, and being able to be spontaneous. This goes for FP and dining. But no matter what is done, those who take advantage of an option first will get the reward.

There is one BIG catch. Once a system hits capacity, no effort of line leveling works anymore. So now people get upset because there are no FP left or the standby line is 90 min. The fact is, this would be the case with or without FP, FP+, or reservations. Once at capacity, everyone else will be disappointed.

 

[rct247]

Most people on this forum won't understand these "overwelming" comments about Disney being stressful or complicated because we get it. We know our Disney stuff, but I do think the research Disney gathered did state this.

There are many factors that need to be taken into account that are not controlled by Disney like:
-People are far more impatient than they were 10, 20, 30, and even 40 years ago. (Children and Adults alike)
-WDW is the number one tourist destination in the world with attendance rising by millions over the past few decades.
-People are always looking for shortcuts.
-People bring a lot more with them into the park than ever before, especially with children. (i.e. the loaded down strollers)
-Technology changes and with it businesses much change with the times or be left in the dust.

There are also factors that Disney can control like:
-Fastpass has increased wait times on certain attractions and will continue to affect more attractions due to the additional line that now must be merged.
-Strict rules on when you can get a Fastpass, who can get a Fastpass, how many you can get, where to get it, how many are distributed, return windows, which ones really need it and which ones don't in addition to other rules like height requirements, supervise children policies, rider switches, stroller parking, EVC/wheelchair transfers, and GAC cards.
-System abuse and those trying to cheat the system with GAC card abuse and finding ways to cheat the Fastpass system rules.

When an average guest comes to the park with kids, they are overwhelmed. Here they paid tons of money to have a perfect experience that will become a nightmare if their expectations are too high. The kids won't last the day, the heat, the crowds, losing the stroller, not arriving early enough for the parade, everything is so expensive, lines, and more lines, and then they want a Fastpass, but they can only get one every 2 hours. Grabbing one for one one attraction you think you need it for and come to find out you don't, but then you can't get one for another attraction. Then you don't know if the return times will work or if they will be gone all together. Throw in a few additional kinks like a ride going down or an afternoon thunderstorm closing the ride you were waiting for. It all turns into "not your typical day at the amusement park".

Fastpass+ will replace Fastpass as we know it. It will allow for pre-planning, but still allow for day of spontaneity. It will allow you to pick times like might work better for you. It will limit the amount of Fastpasses you get in a day, but if you miss your time, you still have a "credit" to get a new one. You can make changes day of if something arises. Families won't have to split up or arrive at rope drop just to get a coveted Fastpass for Toy Story Midway Mania. Fastpass+ will ensure guest who have specific attractions they want to go on get done on their visit. Fastpass+ will hopefully limit abuse as the system will hopefully account for dinning reservation times and attraction downtimes. Area leaders will have more capability with fixing Fastpass issues like modifying and changing existing plans. Fastpass+ will be new to some locations which may affect those wait times, but it won't increase the Fastpasses distributed at current locations lessening the impact. Fastpass+ also takes the stress out of keeping up with all those paper tickets. Guests can loose them, throw them away, or misplace them. You won't have to each attraction to find out the wait time or the return times just to get a paper ticket. It will all be published on your smart phone or at kiosks for you. It will be a completely new system to get used to and so many people don't quite understand how it will work thus getting all worked up over the changes, but overall, Fastpass+ should be a better system than what is currently in place. It won't be perfect. There will be a learning curve and for those who just got used to the current system, they will be stressed learning the new one, but once everyone gets it, it will become the norm.

In the future, I may plan a vacation with my family to the parks. Just as I book my resort and make a dinning reservation or two, I will also be able to pick a select few attractions and other experiences that I want to be sure to get in while I'm visiting such as Tower of Terror, Soarin', Pirates of the Caribbean, and IllumiNations. I may not know what the weather or crowds will be like, but I will know that I will be visiting on certain dates, eating at some of my favorite restaurants, staying at my favorite resort, and visiting my favorite attractions. Once I arrive, maybe I come to find that my family might not all want to ride Tower of Terror, so I can change my Fastpass+ reservation for Toy Story Midway Mania. I won't have full reign over my time choices, but I will be able to find a general time frame like morning, afternoon, or evening that will work best for me. Since I have dinning reservations at 50s Prime Time at 6:00, the system won't allow me to pick a time from 6:00 to 7:00 because it would cause a conflict on interest. Let's say in the park at Magic Kingdom, I find out that Pirates is down during my Fastpass+ time, I get a notification on my phone while I'm eating. I am then offered with a later time or perhaps an opening slot at Splash Mountain or Jungle Cruise. Rather than walk to Pirates and realize this, I can now adjust my plans to have a better experience in the park. I wanted to do Jungle Cruise right afterwards anyways, so that will work to our advantage. Let's say my kid has a little meltdown and needs to go back to the hotel for a nap, my battery for my phone is dead too and needs a recharge. Instead, I visit an in park kiosk or talk to a cast member that can change my plans. Let's move Jungle Cruise back a few hours so we can go back to the hotel. My Fastpass+ viewing area for IllumiNations will still be there later that night as well so I know I won't have to arrive super early for a great spot allowing me to spend more time at Magic Kingdom too. Who's to say that while I'm at the park, more Fastpass+ times will become available making a wait for Haunted Mansion a little shorter since I didn't know if it would be a busy day or not. All of that is on my card, since maybe I didn't want to wear a MyMagic+ wristband.

I keep an eye on the MyDisneyExperience app and a new feature allows you to input in information on your traveling party so you can make decisions for your group too. Right now, you need to collect up all your tickets to visit a machine to get your Fastpasses. Don't forget they have to be in the park too. Now, while the kids are getting a later start at the hotel, you can pull up the app an make a few Fastpass+ reservations without even worrying about getting to the park early or having everyone's tickets with you.

 

[luv]

Most people on this forum won't understand these "overwelming" comments about Disney being stressful or complicated because we get it.

Stressful and complicated, sure.

I never felt terrorized, though.