Fastpass+, a solution to "overwhelmingly negative" responses from families

[pjammer]

D

And I'm not talking no wait - I think people can queue for 90 minutes reasonably, or if Disney didn't waste money, or if Disney just ignored shareholders and did what they feel is good for business...

Of course it is possible it is just Disney as stopped 'thinking big'

Disney trades much higher than those other corporations plus they have way more subsidiaries that they have to manage to ensure they are getting a ROI.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Stressful and complicated, sure.

I never felt terrorized, though.

Then you never saw the razor sharp pendulum swinging above your head that drops if you dare cancel your reservation.

Why am I suddenly thinking about Edgar Allan Poe?

 

[SirLink]

The execution may not always be perfect, but the concept of FP is well established in many industries. Instead of large crowds waiting in long lines for the most popular rides, you take some of those people out of line and spread them out over other rides with shorter lines or eating/shopping. This line leveling actually increases the capacity of the park by better utilization of rides and reduces total average wait times.

Disney has done this for years with Parades. People get out of line and spread out to watch a parade. This creates shorter lines during the parade. Then when it's over, people tend go to the nearest ride. This creates line leveling.

Does no one remember how mad you would get after standing in line for an hour only to have a large group push their way to the front to "catch up" to the person holding their spot? This was FP created by the masses.

You might think that wait times are much longer for those doing standby lines, but that is only because all of those people are not standing in front of you and the line is not out the door in the hot Florida sun.

The issue is, once people get use to a system, they start figuring out how to gain an advantage. They split up to get more FP,they use them outside of the time window, they try to use expired FP, etc. So now Disney has to come up with ways of preventing people from gaming the system.

Enforce time windows, use of FP will be linked to RFID and tracked electronically, you can schedule some FP in advance, and who knows what else.

The trick is balancing scheduling in advance, scheduling the day of, and being able to be spontaneous. This goes for FP and dining. But no matter what is done, those who take advantage of an option first will get the reward.

There is one BIG catch. Once a system hits capacity, no effort of line leveling works anymore. So now people get upset because there are no FP left or the standby line is 90 min. The fact is, this would be the case with or without FP, FP+, or reservations. Once at capacity, everyone else will be disappointed.

If there is no FP it will spread the guests out more evenly ... still a stupid system ... I would prefer everyone queue in a normal 'non-interactive' queue. But that is just me I guess - no one should schedule anything on holiday outside of a few 'premier' experiences like a trip to the Fat Duck, etc.

 

[Todd H]

No. I think utter nonsense covers it without resorting to more base terms like BS.

Disney has made visiting WDW a much more stressful experience with things that take all the spontaneity out of a visit and make it something you hear people talking about using spreadsheets for.

Everything from FP to DDP has made visiting more of a chore and less fun. I'm also a bit surprised that this individual isn't under a NDA considering that MM+ hasn't even been rolled out and is struggling in tests.

I agree. Having visited Universal last year and WDW this year, the biggest difference between the two was the amount of work and stress involved. With WDW I had to make sure to plan my ride, transportation, and park schedule accordingly to make my dining reservations I made months in advance. At Universal I could take my time, enjoy the rides, and if I was hungry I could easily just walk to City Walk (or Mythos) and enjoy a good meal without having to plan it months in advance. No planning was required. It actually felt like a vacation. With WDW it feels like work.

I guess there are people that love planning every waking moment of their vacation. I personally hate it. All that work to ride the same rides I've been experiencing for years. No thanks. From now on we'll spend a couple of days at Universal, maybe a day or two at Seaworld, and end it with another day or two relaxing at the beach.

 

[ParentsOf4]

There is one BIG catch. Once a system hits capacity, no effort of line leveling works anymore. So now people get upset because there are no FP left or the standby line is 90 min. The fact is, this would be the case with or without FP, FP+, or reservations. Once at capacity, everyone else will be disappointed.

WDW almost never reaches true capacity. Even during the busiest days, there are plenty of empty seats on attractions such as American Idol Experience, One Man's Dream, Hall of the Presidents, Tiki Room, Carrousel of Progress, etc. Disney's bigger issue is load balancing. Some attractions are considerably more popular than others.

FP+ might enable Disney to more evenly balance the load. Providing FP+ selections for Disney's less popular attractions might encourage their use. They have tried it in the past with "surprise" FP but it didn't have the hoped for results. It could have been because these surprises didn't fit neatly into plans already made. Perhaps this strategy will be more effective for FP+ since people will have a more natural tendency to plan these into their vacations.

 

[Tim_4]

Disney does stupid things all the time. Fastpass was and still is stupid, this is simply a "tryin' fix" a broken concept...

I'm fine with y'all arguing that you think Disney makes stupid decisions. I believe there are reasonable arguments to be had on that subject even if I happen to disagree. It's the people who seem to think TDO deliberately screws things up who I think are a bit over the top.

 

[disneysince71]

You think it is stressful now... Can you imagine if you not only do your ADRs 180 days out but now you have to plan your FP 180 days out.. What if you need a 6 month reservation to ride soarin... or to get a character signature.... This is getting a little out of hand.. I am with @ParentsOf4 on this one... lets all just wait in line.. like the good ole days!

 

[Virtual Toad]

I just don't see how FP+ will be a tangible improvement for the majority of park guests.

Planning a WDW trip is already a chore. Even more apps, reservations and hoops to jump through will not alleviate anxiety.

People will be even more stressed trying to execute their even-more-hyper-planned-than-before itinerary with the inevitable and unexpected delays and setbacks that happen on the best of vacations. ESPECIALLY families with kids and theme parks prone to attraction break-downs.

Those not savvy enough to take advantage (or even know about) FP+ will feel left out and ripped off when they see others "skipping to the front of the line." How does dealing with artificially longer standby lines and disappointed kids make a vacation more enjoyable?

Like the dining plan, this whole charade will be sold as a guest "benefit." But I don't see it benefitting the majority of guests.

 

[DisneyJoe]

If you step back.. you do realize a lot of people find a Disney trip overwelming and confusing. I doubt the comments were along the lines of fear of life or limb

As the owner of a travel agency specializing in Disney, one of the most common things we hear from our clients is "we went to the Disney website to try and plan our vacation and were completely overwhelmed - please help us."

 

[disneysince71]

As the owner of a travel agency specializing in Disney, one of the most common things we hear from our clients is "we went to the Disney website to try and plan our vacation and were completely overwhelmed - please help us."

I think your job is about to get complicated... they are going to expect you to do all this...

 

[ParentsOf4]

I'm fine with y'all arguing that you think Disney makes stupid decisions. I believe there are reasonable arguments to be had on that subject even if I happen to disagree. It's the people who seem to think TDO deliberately screws things up who I think are a bit over the top.

I don't think anyone seriously suggested Disney intentionally screws things up. At least I thought that was tongue-in-cheek. However, Disney most definitely does things to maximize profits. Often the end result of being profit-driven is to screw things up.

Does anyone who rode Splash Mountain prior to its recent refurbishment think that Disney did not screw that up?

A primary driving force behind Splash Mountain's deplorable condition was profit. It's expensive to operate a third shift to keep attractions in pristine condition. Much cheaper to let it fall apart bit by bit then to actually have a full staff ready to address issues in a timely fashion.

 

[DisneyJoe]

I think your job is about to get complicated... they are going to expect you to do all this...

We do already. We have for years - and the clients are very appreciative - and they send their friends who are just as stressed and overwhelmed.

Business is good.

 

[drew81]

That reasoning has almost as much spin as the tea cups have.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I just don't see how FP+ will be a tangible improvement for the majority of park guests.

I'll start by saying I believe the primary motive behind FP+ is profit-driven. Beyond that, FP+ helps many less experienced WDW guests:

• FP+ allows guests to relax more, knowing they already have their FP+ experiences selected before they arrive.
• After arrival, FP+ allows (if desired) all guests to sleep in since it no longer is necessary to get to the parks at opening for certain critical FP+ experiences.
• FP+ gives inexperienced guests structure to their WDW vacations. "I need to be at park A at time B on day C." The default FP+ selections offered by Disney allow for a comfortable pace between experiences, helping these guests organize their touring plans.
• Not sure what to do? Guests can, if they want, let Disney make their selections for them.

I think for highly experienced WDW guests, FP+ is worse overall than FP. For moderately experienced WDW guests, FP+ is, at best, a wash. For inexperienced WDW guests, FP+ could be a real benefit.

 

[napeterson18]

I'm curious if the words in bold are yours, or paraphrased by you on what he said? I ask because it sounds somewhat hypothetical, and just doesn't make sense. There is nothing in the current FP system that requires people to split up in order to get FPs. Certainly some families will, in order to snag a high demand FP, such as TSMM, but most that I've seen, just flow thru the parks, and then everybody goes and gets their FP together, especially those with younger ones. So, I think that argument is somewhat bogus.

My understanding of one of the many reasons for FP+ (advanced FastPasses), was to reduce the number of complaints from parents/guests when they were unable to ride their favorite attraction, mostly due to large crowds and long lines. So, to alleviate this, they came up with a reservation system, that would all but guarantee guests a spot on the attraction.

The only direct quote was in quotations. This was a paraphrase of what he said.

 

[flynnibus]

I just don't see how FP+ will be a tangible improvement for the majority of park guests.

Planning a WDW trip is already a chore. Even more apps, reservations and hoops to jump through will not alleviate anxiety.

People will be even more stressed trying to execute their even-more-hyper-planned-than-before itinerary with the inevitable and unexpected delays and setbacks that happen on the best of vacations

I think that is why in part your FP+ #s are so low. If you are only planning three things.. that's a lot less difficult and less stressful than planning 10. In addition, remember FP+ is incompassing things that previously were very stressful like trying to find a space... how early do I need to be there and wait.. etc for shows and attractions. Having reservation access to those types of things will help the masses greatly.

IMO - if people were to start looking at this as a 'touring plan' instead of 'scheduled fastpasses' - they would be alot more comfortable with it. The idea is structure and confidence.. instead of overwhelming numbers and uncertainty. Those are the ways the program will make the trip LESS stressful.

 

[flynnibus]

It actually felt like a vacation. With WDW it feels like work.

there you go.. I agree.

I think people missing out on dining, shows, or others is far more downing for people than watching the FP line move by.

 

[wedenterprises]

I'm on board with the theory of FP+. I absolutely hate running around for FPs, checking wait times, and generally worrying about "strategy". I'd love nothing more than to sleep in, go swimming, and know that I'll have a 5min wait for ToT at noon.

The one worry is not being able to get booked on a favourite ride. Or booking months in advance and then not being able to switch it to something more useful later on. Time will tell.

 

[xdan0920]

I'm fine with y'all arguing that you think Disney makes stupid decisions. I believe there are reasonable arguments to be had on that subject even if I happen to disagree. It's the people who seem to think TDO deliberately screws things up who I think are a bit over the top.

You're the only one who said that...

 

[ParentsOf4]

I agree. Having visited Universal last year and WDW this year, the biggest difference between the two was the amount of work and stress involved. With WDW I had to make sure to plan my ride, transportation, and park schedule accordingly to make my dining reservations I made months in advance. At Universal I could take my time, enjoy the rides, and if I was hungry I could easily just walk to City Walk (or Mythos) and enjoy a good meal without having to plan it months in advance. No planning was required. It actually felt like a vacation. With WDW it feels like work.

Universal 100% blows away WDW when it comes to having a relaxing vacation.

For 30-40% less than one of Disney's Deluxe Resorts, stay onsite at one of Universal's 3 lovely deluxe hotels. Sleep in, completely tour a park in the late morning & afternoon, return for a late afternoon dip & nap, and then head out for some evening excitement, all without leaving the grounds. Try doing that while staying at a Disney Resort and expect to stand in line for at least 2 hours at Soarin', Test Track, TSM, etc. That's the beauty of Universal's (nearly) unlimited fast pass system. It completely changes the way your approach your vacation. You actually treat your vacation like a vacation!

Also get easy access to several good TS restaruants without having to book them 180 days in advance. I'm always amazed at how many people build their entire WDW vacations around ADRs. At Universal, walk in, stop by the reservation stand, and book any ADR you want that day. When you get to the restaurants, they still are just as crowded as WDW but Universal's guests haven't stressed out for 180 days getting the ADRs they want. What does WDW put in the water to make people freak out over a restaurant reservation?

The FP+ system is needed to relieve stress because WDW vacationers have turned their vacations into one big stressful event.