Fast pass plus

[Alektronic]

Just thinking....we need a time slot for our flight.....we can only check-in after a certian time....we have to eat at a certian time......we will have to ride attractions at a certian time......we have to enjoy parades and shows at a certian time......we have to checkout a certian time and get picked up at a certian time....then get our flight home at a certian time.....sprinkle some pixe dust in there, and boy wasnt it a magical time!

At what point does it not become unpleasureable? When does it become no longer liesure? When is it the plans become to rigid? Just wondering, does anybody know of any other vacation that has every minutia planned so far in advance?

Some people like everything already planned out, and others don't they are more spontaneous, and some are a combination of both. NexGen is also done for convenience for the guest who wants to use it and want to bypass the check-in counter.

Here is what I heard how it is supposed to work eventually:

You make your reservations and pay for them, then they send you a welcome package along with your RFID bracelets and you go online and make your reservations, ADR, FP+, etc.

When you land at OIA, you go to the Magical Express and check in there and then it will let that hotel know that you are at the airport and then they will assign you a room, they will either let you know there or send you a text message of your room number so when you arrive at your hotel you can go directly to your room because they programmed your RFID braclets to that door. So you just go directly to your room or directly to a park if you want to.

 

[John]

Some people like everything already planned out, and others don't they are more spontaneous, and some are a combination of both. NexGen is also done for convenience for the guest who wants to use it and want to bypass the check-in counter.

Here is what I heard how it is supposed to work eventually:

You make your reservations and pay for them, then they send you a welcome package along with your RFID bracelets and you go online and make your reservations, ADR, FP+, etc.

When you land at OIA, you go to the Magical Express and check in there and then it will let that hotel know that you are at the airport and then they will assign you a room, they will either let you know there or send you a text message of your room number so when you arrive at your hotel you can go directly to your room because they programmed your RFID braclets to that door. So you just go directly to your room or directly to a park if you want to.

No doubt, there are some who like things being "strictly" planned. I dont, thus voiceing my opinion. I do see benefits to NexGen. I just see problems with it also. It might not bother some. It bothers me. If you dont mind everything you do being influenced, being choregraphed, Being regimented, Godspeed. For those of us who dont...well there are always those cute interactive queues.

 

[John]

Disney already had these powers. Disney already controlled how many FPs were available. Disney already had the power to give people they wanted powers above and beyond the average guest using a FP machine.

Disney has better controls now - but this is not a new poison.

Couldnt agree with you more. BUT...they had a degree of control, but with nexGen they took it to a whole different level. Isnt that the point of the program to begin with?

Flynni.......what I will absolutely agree with you on.....is that I/we dont know exactly what the entire program will consist of. But you can deny that there is some inheriant problems with the system....as I guess with all things new. but I also think that to say that it isnt a way to restrict your touring plans is also incorrect. IMO the program itself is to take some level of control of your touring plans. Even you suggest that Disney will "suggest" a plan for you.

 

[John]

As this being a discussion forum we are discussing the program. Given the fact none of us really know, Disney has left us to our own conjecture. I also think they will never really give an explination on how the program really works....not that I think they should....would or have any responsibility to do so.

Some things we do know about the program makes perfect sense....other things dont......such as adding FP queues to rides that dont need them. Everything surrounding FP+ isnt as rosey as you might percieve....and ....Yes I am sure it isnt as cynical as I may think. weather its 180 days out or 60 days out I dont see much difference. I also hope that no one misunderstood my use of "Deluxe guest" as being the only ones who will recieve FP+.... I agree everyone will have access....just some more then others. Which as I said is fine by me. To say you dont have to use FP+ is a little like saying.....you dont have to use digital photography if you dont want to,you could use Kodachrome.. but you will be left behind, or in this case.....standing in line.

 

[GoofGoof]

No doubt, there are some who like things being "strictly" planned. I dont, thus voiceing my opinion. I do see benefits to NexGen. I just see problems with it also. It might not bother some. It bothers me. If you dont mind everything you do being influenced, being choregraphed, Being regimented, Godspeed. For those of us who dont...well there are always those cute interactive queues.

Do you usually just eat at CS or off property? IMHO it has been next to impossible to be spontaneous with WDW since they started shoving DDP down everyone's throats. ADRs are required for most restaurants. You are already forced to plan which park you are going to which day due to ADRs unless you are good with a steady diet of chicken nuggets, burgers and fries. Is it that much different if you reserve Splash Mountain for 3pm six months out with FP+ or get to MK and go to the FP machine at 9am and get a fast pass for a 3pm return time? Either way you are forced to return at 3pm. Under FP+ you just skip the walk over to the machine to get the ticket.

 

[Adam5897]

I am not saying I am a huge fan of FP+. I don't really know how I feel since we don't have all of the details. I do think certain aspects are going to be a positive. Reserved spots for parades and fireworks to me is a huge plus. I hate waiting trying to save my spot. I am a bit of a planner anyway so I don't see the planning ahead as a big problem. Due to DDP you pretty much have to make ADRs 6 months out if you are going during a popular time. Because of this I have already locked in my park days at 6 months out. I know I'm doing MK on Sat and Wed, AK on Tue, EPCOT on Sun and so on. This doesn't change with FP+. With FP+ all signs point to a limit of maybe 4 reservations per day. Let's take MK as an example. If I book a reserved spot for Wishes with one reservation I am down to 3. I reserve BTMRR at 9am and Splash Mt at 9:30am figuring on starting at that half of the park in the morning and I reserve Space Mountain or Buzz Lightyear in the evening at 8:30pm before the start of Wishes. The rest of my day I am free to ride whatever I want whenever I want. If its only 4 reservations per day it's not like you are planning every ride of every day. I think once that misperception is cleared up people may actually be happy with the system. Well not everyone, but there's no way to please everyone all of the time.

Very helpful and completely changed my mind about the system, thanks!

 

[Adam5897]

How far ahead can you start booking your fast pass + reservations because as of right now it isn't showing up.

 

[flynnibus]

Couldnt agree with you more. BUT...they had a degree of control, but with nexGen they took it to a whole different level. Isnt that the point of the program to begin with?

When anything moves electronic - it's easier to change than adapting physical things. That's just how it goes. But people are assuming evil here.. and is that really warranted? The same controls could be used for GOOD - yet everyone focuses on the evil.

Imagine if Space Mountain started running more trains than expected... adding more capacity.. and Disney sends you a push notification 'hey, additional Space Mountain FP+ credits are now available. Touch here to join the fun!'. Or imagine if the system were to advertise to you 'Jungle Cruise wait time is down to 15min.. why not take a spin on the river?'

Flynni.......what I will absolutely agree with you on.....is that I/we dont know exactly what the entire program will consist of. But you can deny that there is some inheriant problems with the system....as I guess with all things new

Things will be DIFFERENT from what they are now.. but are these 'problems'? I'm not so quick to jump. Honestly I think most of the problems are not with the features - but the level of user interaction the system will require. The more steps involved, the greater the chance for 'stupid human tricks' as we call them or flat out bugs. Basically, complexity adds potential for traps.

Problems like.. what will the backup look like at the FP+ entrances? People used to argue CMs can't check the FP ticket closer because it would cause traffic issues. These RFID terminals are gonna cause serious traffic issues at high volume attractions. It's gonna look like the gate at the airport when everyone tries to go through the single checkpoint with their boarding pass.

On the flipside.. nearly everyone complaint people have about FP
- knowing if its available
- walking to the attraction to find no more FP available
- walking to the attraction to find the return time incompatible
- 'all gone before I get there'
- late returns causing surges
- inequality in usage by those who know how to game the system
- 'too many FPs...'

All of these are addressed by the FP+ system. A point people are so quick to overlook..

but I also think that to say that it isnt a way to restrict your touring plans is also incorrect. IMO the program itself is to take some level of control of your touring plans. Even you suggest that Disney will "suggest" a plan for you.

Do you really think people are that possessive of who makes their schedule.. or only care as long as the schedule 'works for their needs'? Most people don't want micro-control - they just want 'success'.

One thing I don't see in the system that I think will be a problem for some is.. the groups that argue 'I need a hotel break in my day'. It would be a good refinement I think for Disney to add a thing you book to be a 'hotel break' into your things to do.. which automatically blocks out part of the afternoon. this could be part of a 'touring preference' people define.. am I a morning person or evening person.. do I take long breaks? I want a spread out day.. or compact.. etc.

 

[GoofGoof]

Some things we do know about the program makes perfect sense....other things dont......such as adding FP queues to rides that dont need them

It think you hit on a dirty little secret with FP+ (not really secret around here, but to the general public). There are probably not going to be enough FP+ reservations to go around on the most popular attractions so they added FP to rides that didn't need it. They don't want to tell people "we are all out" so if you wait to reserve during a busy time you will probably get stuck with Small World or some other ride that never has more than a 20 min wait. This is just my opinion based on available info, no official word that this is why they added the extra FP rides.

 

[John]

Do you usually just eat at CS or off property? IMHO it has been next to impossible to be spontaneous with WDW since they started shoving DDP down everyone's throats. ADRs are required for most restaurants. You are already forced to plan which park you are going to which day due to ADRs unless you are good with a steady diet of chicken nuggets, burgers and fries. Is it that much different if you reserve Splash Mountain for 3pm six months out with FP+ or get to MK and go to the FP machine at 9am and get a fast pass for a 3pm return time? Either way you are forced to return at 3pm. Under FP+ you just skip the walk over to the machine to get the ticket.

For some, but not everyone will get lucky and get the FP they want for that time. You must have been one of the lucky ones.

edit: I also agree with you on the ADR's...this is just another way of "upping" the anty.

 

[GoofGoof]

For some, but not everyone will get lucky and get the FP they want for that time. You must have been one of the lucky ones.

edit: I also agree with you on the ADR's...this is just another way of "upping" the anty.

I haven't used the system yet. With regular FP you don't always get the time you want. I remember going to DHS and arriving shortly after opening. We went straight to Toy Story and got 3pm FP tickets a little after 9am. I really didn't plan on staying at the park that long, but I wasn't waiting over an hour in the standby line. I know this is an extreme example for a specifically problematic ride, but it does happen.

 

[Lil Fort]

This sounds needlessly complicated, as if it was written by an MBA in corporate instead of someone that actually knows and cares about the parks. And to think they spent all that money on this instead of investing it in attractions.

It pains me to say this, being a lifelong Disney fan, but I can foresee a day when my family moves on and visits Disney World no more. Between this Nextgen nonsense and the glacial pace of building new attractions, the magic is quickly diminishing.

I have to agree! We purposely visit during the slow times of the year so that we don't have to plan. We're 'fly by the seat of our pants' kind of folks and we prefer to wing it.

 

[flynnibus]

This is just my opinion based on available info, no official word that this is why they added the extra FP rides.

For the same reasons they gave out 'suprise FPs' in the past.. it helps distribute the load to available capacity. By directing guests with FP+ to other attractions they might have otherwise opt'd to skip.. the park is increasing the utilization of the available capacity.

Instead of having 4 rides at 100% and 10 at 20%.. you try to get it more balanced.

 

[John]

I haven't used the system yet. With regular FP you don't always get the time you want. I remember going to DHS and arriving shortly after opening. We went straight to Toy Story and got 3pm FP tickets a little after 9am. I really didn't plan on staying at the park that long, but I wasn't waiting over an hour in the standby line. I know this is an extreme example for a specifically problematic ride, but it does happen.

Aye yi yiiiiiii, You gave a rhetorical scenario and I gave a rehtorical answer. I know you havnt used the system yet, as it isnt fully implimented. You made my point. There is no garuntee that you will get a FP for your desired time. YES, as it is now. I cant wait to see how the computer does with cross recervations between attractions and ADRs. Sure the AFP has a window but I want to see how they do with thousands and thousands of ADRs.

 

[flynnibus]

Aye yi yiiiiiii, You gave a rhetorical scenario and I gave a rehtorical answer. I know you havnt used the system yet, as it isnt fully implimented. You made my point. There is no garuntee that you will get a FP for your desired time. YES, as it is now. I cant wait to see how the computer does with cross recervations between attractions and ADRs. Sure the AFP has a window but I want to see how they do with thousands and thousands of ADRs.

Another example of something people bitched about with FP.. that is 'solved' with FP+. The FP window conflicts with my ADR - won't happen anymore..

 

[John]

Hey, I am not ' I hope your right. I rarely had a problem with it. You seem rather confident that you wont have a problem. I hope your optomistic view is spot on. Also if I am wrong in my assesment I will be the first one to come on here and praise this thing to the ends of the earth. You may call it being cynical...I like to think of it as being skeptical.

Another example of something people bitched about with FP.. that is 'solved' with FP+. The FP window conflicts with my ADR - won't happen anymore..

 

[GoofGoof]

For the same reasons they gave out 'suprise FPs' in the past.. it helps distribute the load to available capacity. By directing guests with FP+ to other attractions they might have otherwise opt'd to skip.. the park is increasing the utilization of the available capacity.

Instead of having 4 rides at 100% and 10 at 20%.. you try to get it more balanced.

You are probably right. I got a few freebies in the past. Never a headliner.

 

[John]

For the same reasons they gave out 'suprise FPs' in the past.. it helps distribute the load to available capacity. By directing guests with FP+ to other attractions they might have otherwise opt'd to skip.. the park is increasing the utilization of the available capacity.

Instead of having 4 rides at 100% and 10 at 20%.. you try to get it more balanced.

There is a reason they are at 20%....no one wants to ride them. Also just because there is FP+ isnt going to change those four rides at 100%. Giving free FP might change the percentage a little on the ten but not one single point on the original four rides. I guess a little is better then no increase. How much does a FP increase the chance you might ride a ride that dosnt have a line or a very short line to begin with?

 

[flynnibus]

There is a reason they are at 20%....no one wants to ride them. Also just because there is FP+ isnt going to change those four rides at 100%. Giving free FP might change the percentage a little on the ten but not one single point on the original four rides. I guess a little is better then no increase. How much does a FP increase the chance you might ride a ride that dosnt have a line or a very short line to begin with?

You're going on the assumption everyone already knows what rides are worthwhile and which ones aren't. If that were the case, those rides would have no one one them. But there is a percentage of people who don't know about it.. some that like it.. and some that like it 'enough' when there isn't a huge commitment to experience it. All of those categories will be boosted by a touring plan that includes that ride. Is it going to make it a top ride? no, but that's not the point. The point is to get better utilization of the ride you are operating anyways. If a ride is a walk-on - more people are to commit to ride the same ride.. vs if that ride had a big wait. The FP+ is the equivalent of that.

As for 'has very little line to begin with...' - The touring plan gets the customer to head towards that ride.. something they may not have done otherwise. 'Getting them in the door is half the battle..' they say.. and FP+'s schedule will do that.

Is it contrived? Certainly - but its essentially shaping demand and advertising. Something the park does in other forms already. Again, a new tool in the box - not new sinister ideas.

 

[flynnibus]

Hey, I am not ' I hope your right. I rarely had a problem with it. You seem rather confident that you wont have a problem

No - I'm not calling the system flawless. I'm calling it different. But much of the points people are making to support their belief are crap.. and completely ignoring what the system DOES bring to the table. It's much more a perception problem right now than actual problems. I think most of the problems as I stated in another post are going to be user interaction. How much man power is Disney going to have to invest in staffing 'support' calls and how much massaging are they going to have to do when customers didn't get what they wanted, etc. By putting everyone through 'one door' - you have now made yourself responsible for that one door. How frustrated will customers get with time it takes to get issues resolved.. vs simply just 'doing something' on their own without having to talk to anyone.

The system increases the number of dependencies... dependencies are expensive to maintain and support.

In the positive... I think this system addresses most of the concerns about FP. It offers no-wait services to many popular things like M&G and shows. It offers online self-service portals.

My biggest complaint is I think the 60day window is a mistake. The window should be very short IMO - less than 7 days.