Fans united-more harm than good?

[moreno]

Hello, longtime fan, first time poster. Something Ive been thinking about and wanted your opinions on.

Ive been thinking recently about how disney views its fans (us). You know, the people who arent just the once every 10 year visitors. Im talking about the people who go multiple times a year. So my thinking is...we ask disney for something, say for instance more retro merchandise ("because the fans want it!"). So disney releases a few items, and maybe it doesnt sell that well. Just a thought, but dont you think what merchandise they release is based soley on what has been and is selling well? Despite us thinking that of course a cool retro shirt would sell well, im sure if they did sell well we would see a ton of them. So we ask, and then dont deliver.
So then Disney announces that Mr. Toad Wild Ride is closing. And we unite and make a website and sign petitions. But where were we when this ride was lying there for years with no one riding it? Despite our thoughts that this was always a popular ride, Disney is not in the business of shutting a moneymaker down. We can sign petitions, but united we cant fill the queue.
So this brings me to my last thought. We ask Disney for things, sign petitions, basically telling them...look, there is a viable base here. But I was at DAK on the 10th anniversary. I definitely agree there was a good show of fans and it was alot of fun. But do you think it basically forces our hand...saying, look, here we are. And in the grand scheme of things, with the amount of people going through the park on a daily basis, it is a speck in the eyes of Disney. I really think getting together and saying, "Look here we are, the harcore fans"...might be doing more harm than good. We are not an anonymous mass, we are a couple hundred people, and therefore possibly discounted. You may argue that the group that shows up at the gatherings doesnt represent everyone, but does it represent the amount of people that would show up to any other event on average?

These are just thoughts. Please let me know what your thoughts are. Thanks

 

[jedimaster1227]

Truthfully, I can say that you can be right in regards to the fan-per-general-guest ratio. While we may not be in the thousands that come out for each event, the hundreds of us that do show up make a difference. Having spoken to Val Bunting and Jim Macphee about the topic of the fans in general, I know that they appreciate us. While we will never be their directly targeted audience, we are still an important entity to them. Trust me when I say that if they didn't really appreciate us, Celebration 25 nor A Wild Decade would have been approved. Plus, other fan events like MouseFest and WestFest would have been ended by now.

In the end, I think we just reinforce the notion that there are fans out there, but I always tell my friends that are Disney fans to stop and realize that we make up a small percentage of the target demographic. I'm comfortable enough to say that while petitions don't always work (they have in the past, in the case of Figment and Carousel of Progress--again, thank you Grizz if you are reading this), they just make a statement that we as fans are here. My team and I make sure that we make such a statement in a peaceful, appreciative manner, rather than saying "this event stinks--we will do our own and completely overshadow everything Disney does just to make them mad." By working to complement their events and parks, we seem to be in the green with the company, and that is an approach that has become our golden rule, specifically in an effort to preserve relations between the fan community and Disney.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

These boards are read and Disney is aware of what the fans have to say. I think when you get down to it, the fans DO contribute a nice chunk of change to the grand scheme of things. There are many, many more fans out there besides the few hundred that show up at the events such as DAK's 10th. There are waaaay more than those of us who found the online forums. It's hard to even try to imagine how many there could be out there. But I do know to disregard anyone, fans included, would be un-Disney-like.

A few weeks ago while on our trip we had the opportunity to do the Lunch w/an Imagineer. Two of the 7 of us at the lunch were big fans and participated in online forums associated with Walt Disney World. We asked our imagineer if we could ask questions about rumors. We would ask our questions then tell him what was being said in some of the forums. At times he chuckled. At times he smiled as if we hit on something. He DID tell us that pretty recently at a meeting of Imagineers someone brought a list of the rumors floating out in the great wide internet. The far-fetched ones made for great jokes amoungst them. The point is that if they are discussing our ramblings then, yes, we are heard.

Without going into a lot of detail on how the conversation evolved to the LaL walls at Epcot, I mentioned that there are a lot of people who refer to them as 'the great tombstones'. This really sparked his interest. He wanted to know more about this thinking. I explained how some feel that the walls clutter the entry plaza in front of SSE and how I know there ARE tiles that refer to the deceased because there is a tile there for my grandfather that was created after his death by 2 of my aunts. He was truly intrigued. Seems like there were other things we told him that interested him as well. I'm certain, particularly with the LaL comments, these things will be repeated by him to his peers. This is yet another way that I know we are heard: thru the grapevine.

As a collective group I don't think we can make the kind of impact to directly influence decisions such as the 'Toad-In' that was staged to protest the elimination of Mr.Toad's Wild Ride. Once big decisions like that are made they're done. In the case of Mr.Toad, that was simply economics. Our Keys to the Kingdom Tour guide asked our group of 20 with a broad range of ages if any of us knew what book that attraction was based upon. Nobody knew, not even me (that was the only question I answered wrong :brick. Now ask us what we know about Pooh. Night and day difference. Some decisions although not fun, and even when the powers-that-be have personnal opinions that are to the contrary, have to be made when they make sense in the grand scheme of things.

I think we, as a group, are heard and probably our thoughts are pondered once in a while. We are appreciated. We are the ones who really 'get' the magic. We are part of what Walt Disney World is. We just can't get it in our heads that we will have things our way because it is what we want. Everything has to be considered within the big picture, not just in the mind's eye of the nostalgic WDW buffs.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and point of view. I enjoy these kinds of threads. :wave:

 

[jasondiff]

Just a couple of thoughts:

Concerning retro merchandise, there has just been spotted a new retro Epcot T-shirt in the last few days. There's also been more Epcot 25th pins released since 10/1/07 and more on the schedule. These items don't need to be doorbusters to make money for Disney. Even if they sell only 2000, it adds to their assortment of merchandise, and it makes money.

Concerning the numbers showing up at events: Obviously every fan can't make it to any given event. I'm sure Disney realizes that for every fan that came to DAK on April 22nd, there were lots more wishing they could be there.

Concerning fan events versus petitions: Celebration 25 and A Wild Decade were designed to allow fans to celebrate the anniversaries of the parks with other fans. It's about the community. We attempt to keep everything positive. Petitions are usually negative by their very nature - the fans don't agree with a decision Disney has made. Sometimes they might persuade Disney to reconsider. Sometimes not. Whatever the case, I believe that Disney does hear us, via petitions, internet forums, etc. Successful companies must listen to their customers. But then successful companies must also make decisions that will allow them to continue to be successful. While I lament the closing of MTWR, I realize that it was simply a financial decision for the company. A ride with no riders is not good. But in my opinion, it's our job to hold Disney to it's own quality standards: Our version of Pooh does not live up to what we know WDI can do. I think there'd be a lot less opposition to the closing of MTWR if we got Pooh's Hunny Hunt instead of TMAoWtP.

 

[Dragonrider1227]

that was always my basic thought. If a couple hundred people want Toad and a couple thousand people want Pooh, guess which crowd Disney's gonna go for

 

[moreno]

Concerning the numbers showing up at events: Obviously every fan can't make it to any given event. I'm sure Disney realizes that for every fan that came to DAK on April 22nd, there were lots more wishing they could be there.

Im not sure about this. Common sense would say that yes, the people who showed up do represent a part of a whole. And maybe when we do more of these things, Disney will get a better idea of an average. But honestly, I think some within Disney dont care about the people who arent there-the wishers. Would they care about the people "wishing" they could buy a shirt? Or the people who wish they could have made Toad a more popular ride? They just want to meet the bottom line, and wishes dont do that.

I know theoretically we represent a whole-but do you think the amount of people that show up at these events, while not everybody, does represent the average amount of people who could count as viable money spenders for Disney?

 

[DisneyJoe]

Plus, other fan events like MouseFest and WestFest would have been ended by now.

These events are not sponsored by Disney in any way, so how could they "end" them?

If they were to stop MouseFest or WestFest they would also need to stop events like Gaydays.

 

[dreamfinder]

The rabid internet fan may not be able to drive popular opinion, but it does help as a gut check when they decide to do things in the parks. They do acknowledge fans with limited releases of merchandise and events that appeal to fans. DL I think does it better (almost to well) with their merch events. Well themed, well executed events that cater to the hardcore fan. Some specialized merch doesn't sell well, and it seems that WDW is testing the waters by releasing limited amounts of retro/dated/whatever stuff and seeing how it sells. I seem to recall that they got burnt on one of the last big anniversary years where they made vast amounts of dated merch that no one bought. It's a fine line between trying something new, and sticking to what sells.

 

[brkgnews]

These events are not sponsored by Disney in any way, so how could they "end" them?

If they were to stop MouseFest or WestFest they would also need to stop events like Gaydays.

For all intents and purposes, the parks are private property and Disney has the right to admit (or refuse) to admit whomever they see fit.

Even if they didn't say that events were "closed," many events enjoy the success that they do because there are efforts made to stay in good graces with the company. The last thing anyone wants to do is become a pain in the neck to his or her host. Not only is it simply not the right thing to do, but a host is more willing to work with you and provide unique experiences for you when you are a gracious guest.

 

[imamouse]

For all intents and purposes, the parks are private property and Disney has the right to admit (or refuse) to admit whomever they see fit.

Even if they didn't say that events were "closed," many events enjoy the success that they do because there are efforts made to stay in good graces with the company. The last thing anyone wants to do is become a pain in the neck to his or her host. Not only is it simply not the right thing to do, but a host is more willing to work with you and provide unique experiences for you when you are a gracious guest.

Spoken (well, written) like a true southern gentleman.