Families of autistic kids sue Disney parks over policy on lines

[PirateFrank]

Aside from this, I don't think Disney really wants to get into the business of trying to look at guests' doctors notes and determine validity. I believe doing so potentially opens the door to HIPAA violations as well. A guests' medical issues are really of no business to Disney whatsoever. From everything I've read on this, it would seem that Disney has done everything within the letter of the law, which says that they need to provide reasonable access to attractions and facilities, which they have done. The problem many of these parents are complaining about is due to the fact that the prior version of the system went above the law, and offered more than was required, allowing for greater flexibility for those who needed it, but also allowing for the low-lifes to take advantage of the system.

First off, very well said. However, I firmly believe that the new system will eventually have its own troubles as well - If it hasn't already. I have said often to people asking me for advice on wdw-planning - a great rule of thumb is that "you can save time or you can save money, but rarely, can you do both" Since you rarely can do both, time becomes just as valuable as money. Getting through the parks faster is a huge value to every single guest who comes to wdw...and we learned just a few years ago, that this type of access actually has a monetary value, as GAC holders were being paid to provide such quick access.

The new system, for lack of a better description, is a modified unlimited fastpass+, seemingly without restriction of availability (please someone correct me if my interpretation is off). To anyone thinking that this isn't a huge benefit to someone who would otherwise have to wait in lines like everyone else -- think again. Where there is an opportunity and motivation for fraud -- it will eventually happen. Which means, as sure as it will thunderstorm during the afternoon in august, there will still be people who will put on an emmy-award winning performances at Guest Relations, in order to secure the DAS -- shamefully screwing the people who genuinely need this service.

And that brings me to my second point -- There appears to be some dreadfully misguided anger out of these people behind the lawsuit (and the suit's supporters). Who really did the screwing here? Was it Disney? Who, for years, went WAY above and beyond their legal responsibilities to provide GAC holders with carte blanche access to rides...and now, still go above and beyond with quite an advantageous assistance program. Or was it the shameful low lives amongst them that abused the system for monetary gain?


This sort of lawsuit stinks of the kind of tort suits where some guy goes to an NFL game, gets beat up by a drunk fan and sues the team for damages, while legally ignoring the drunk fan who committed the assault because his pockets weren't deep enough.

 

[flynnibus]

I believe doing so potentially opens the door to HIPAA violations as well

No - HIPAA has zero relevancy on a entity like Disneyworld or any other public accommodation.

What is significant is under the ADA for public accommodation you can not require proof of the disability as that will effectively block people who need the accommodation from getting it - you are not required to prove your disability, so if the business were to screen you out, they would be in violation. This is why people focus on 'what can you do or not' as the test to check... because the customer does not get to dictate what accommodation they get, and the business does not get to interpret what medical condition results in what limitations.

The law is written to boil down to a person being able to say "I can not do XYZ" and the business is supposed to provide reasonable accommodations to allow the customer to participate as a normal customer if feasible. The caveats are the limitation must be due to a covered disability.

Where things got out of control was when the law was redone to explictly rescope the covered disabilities and included far reaching mental disabilities.

 

[ILOVEDISNEY]

I feel sorry for parents with any kind of disability or handicap. Yes, some autistic children have meltdowns, but so do other children whose parents have spoiled them rotten, or have kept them up when they should be back in their lodgings taking a nap. This suit, like many others, is about money; not about what the child wants or needs. Autism has been around forever being a genetic disorder and long before pesticides, vaccinations, and heavy metals in the environment. Since the Federal government began financial incentives in the 1980s has the diagnosis of autistism skyrocketed. In reality, about 1 child in a 1000 has some form of autism, with boys much more likely to be diagnosed. There are always going to be parents/doctors who play the system for whatever they can get for free. This new group knows Disney has deep pockets and the shyster lawyers have been lining up for their piece of the pie. Shame on you all. I do not mind an autistic, or any other child with a handicap or disability going to the head of the line, but I do mind having the whole family being allowed the same privilege. Now, let's start a discussion about all the dogs that are appearing by the droves in WDW whose owners say they need to deal with their phobias, addictions, and other perceived ailments. Of course, they have a certificate from some shyster doctor and/or some nefarious organization. Give me a break!!!

 

[GrumpyFan]

I feel sorry for parents with any kind of disability or handicap. Yes, some autistic children have meltdowns, but so do other children whose parents have spoiled them rotten, or have kept them up when they should be back in their lodgings taking a nap. This suit, like many others, is about money; not about what the child wants or needs. Autism has been around forever being a genetic disorder and long before pesticides, vaccinations, and heavy metals in the environment. Since the Federal government began financial incentives in the 1980s has the diagnosis of autistism skyrocketed. In reality, about 1 child in a 1000 has some form of autism, with boys much more likely to be diagnosed. There are always going to be parents/doctors who play the system for whatever they can get for free. This new group knows Disney has deep pockets and the shyster lawyers have been lining up for their piece of the pie. Shame on you all. I do not mind an autistic, or any other child with a handicap or disability going to the head of the line, but I do mind having the whole family being allowed the same privilege. Now, let's start a discussion about all the dogs that are appearing by the droves in WDW whose owners say they need to deal with their phobias, addictions, and other perceived ailments. Of course, they have a certificate from some shyster doctor and/or some nefarious organization. Give me a break!!!

I think you're a bit over the line, and making some unfair and unjust accusations. I disagree with the lawsuit, based on the claims of discrimination by Disney that they're making in it, but far be it from me to call anyone's disability fake or go so far as to accuse anyone of doing this for money. I'm not a medical expert nor do I have any real understanding of Autism, so I'm not going to attempt to speak to the condition or its causes, but unless you're a doctor and know each patient personally, I would suggest that you not try and determine their condition yourself. The law suit doesn't ask for money for any of the parties, only to pay for legal costs, they're just asking that the court forces Disney to change the policy.

 

[Gomer]

I feel sorry for parents with any kind of disability or handicap. Yes, some autistic children have meltdowns, but so do other children whose parents have spoiled them rotten, or have kept them up when they should be back in their lodgings taking a nap. This suit, like many others, is about money; not about what the child wants or needs. Autism has been around forever being a genetic disorder and long before pesticides, vaccinations, and heavy metals in the environment. Since the Federal government began financial incentives in the 1980s has the diagnosis of autistism skyrocketed. In reality, about 1 child in a 1000 has some form of autism, with boys much more likely to be diagnosed. There are always going to be parents/doctors who play the system for whatever they can get for free. This new group knows Disney has deep pockets and the shyster lawyers have been lining up for their piece of the pie. Shame on you all. I do not mind an autistic, or any other child with a handicap or disability going to the head of the line, but I do mind having the whole family being allowed the same privilege. Now, let's start a discussion about all the dogs that are appearing by the droves in WDW whose owners say they need to deal with their phobias, addictions, and other perceived ailments. Of course, they have a certificate from some shyster doctor and/or some nefarious organization. Give me a break!!!

See? See? These are the trolls I was talking about.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I am seeing an increase of service dogs in the parks, but at least it doesn't really affect anyone in any way, like, for example, an illegitimate GAC scammer did. However, I can see it becoming an issue as more and more people get documentation to bring their regular, non-trained, non-service animal dogs into the park as "companions". I've seen a few dogs that were acting a bit hyper and clearly not trained to be in a public setting like this.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

diabetic dogs

What the heck is a diabetic dog? Does it bark if you try and put something with too much sugar in your mouth?

 

[StarWarsGirl]

What the heck is a diabetic dog? Does it bark if you try and put something with too much sugar in your mouth?

They can sense if blood sugar is becoming too low or too high before it becomes dangerous.
http://www.diabeticalertdogsofamerica.com/

 

[EOD K9]

Don't get me started on the use of service animals.

 

[Lucky]

BTW a "diabetic dog" could also refer to a dog with diabetes. One of our family pets needed insulin shots every day the last two years she lived.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

I feel sorry for parents with any kind of disability or handicap. Yes, some autistic children have meltdowns, but so do other children whose parents have spoiled them rotten, or have kept them up when they should be back in their lodgings taking a nap. This suit, like many others, is about money; not about what the child wants or needs.

The difference is that when a young child has a meltdown, they will take a nap and they will not become violent to the point of becoming uncontrollable and hurting themselves or others. A meltdown that a child with autism will have is way worse than a 3 year old. If a three year old gets into a tantrum, you can restrain that child, correct? And then put them down for a nap? Well, when you have a child with autism, unless you are bigger than them, you cannot restrain them, and you may get hurt. And it's quite often not as simple as, "They need a nap."

However, I do not agree with the suit. I believe that the system provides reasonable access to the attractions and is very workable in combination with FP+. It's not perfect by any means, but it's a step up from GAC. We are able to make it work very well in our family and do not miss GAC at all.

 

[DisneyCane]

I think you're a bit over the line, and making some unfair and unjust accusations. I disagree with the lawsuit, based on the claims of discrimination by Disney that they're making in it, but far be it from me to call anyone's disability fake or go so far as to accuse anyone of doing this for money. I'm not a medical expert nor do I have any real understanding of Autism, so I'm not going to attempt to speak to the condition or its causes, but unless you're a doctor and know each patient personally, I would suggest that you not try and determine their condition yourself. The law suit doesn't ask for money for any of the parties, only to pay for legal costs, they're just asking that the court forces Disney to change the policy.

Please don't be naïve. Is Autism a real condition? Yes. Are 1 in 102 children (or whatever the new ridiculous stat is) afflicted with this condition? No way. Somehow the definition of Autism has greatly expanded in the last 30 years. That is why so many more children are "diagnosed" with Autism. If you don't think that available research and treatment money has something to do with that, you need to literally step out of New Fantasyland.

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Please don't be naïve. Is Autism a real condition? Yes. Are 1 in 102 children (or whatever the new ridiculous stat is) afflicted with this condition? No way. Somehow the definition of Autism has greatly expanded in the last 30 years. That is why so many more children are "diagnosed" with Autism. If you don't think that available research and treatment money has something to do with that, you need to literally step out of New Fantasyland.

The definition of autism was changed a few years ago to include a variety of developmental disorders that were previously classified differently. Now a variety of cognitive disabilities are classified under Autism Spectrum Disorder. For instance, my younger brother was originally diagnosed with developmental delays, then pervasive developmental disorder. Later, that disorder was recatagorized into autism. Asperger Disorder also falls under ASD. Classic autism is different and would indeed have much lower statistics than ASD.

 

[GrumpyFan]

I'm not qualified to talk about autism and its symptoms. So, I'm just going to keep my words to myself, lest I look like a fool. But, for anyone else who feels so inclined, go ahead, I'll just watch.

 

[Gomer]

Please don't be naïve. Is Autism a real condition? Yes. Are 1 in 102 children (or whatever the new ridiculous stat is) afflicted with this condition? No way. Somehow the definition of Autism has greatly expanded in the last 30 years. That is why so many more children are "diagnosed" with Autism. If you don't think that available research and treatment money has something to do with that, you need to literally step out of New Fantasyland.

Ok, my willpower has failed. I'm engaging.

The number is 1 in 68. 1 in 45 in my home state of NJ. 1 in 28 for boys.

Those national numbers should actually be higher as the CDC threw out an entire subset of people because it didn't fit their model. Those people? A community of Somali immigrants in Minnesota where the autism rate is so historically high, no one can figure out the cause. The speculation there? The theories are that it has to do with Vitamin D deficiency due to the nature of the community immigrating from a warm sunny climate to Minnesota. But to accept that, people would have to put aside their denial and accept that environmental factors do play a part in development and severity of autism. But no, it must be the money.

How about studies that show a higher prevalence of autism near congested highways. Or the possible link between air pollution and the higher incidences of autism in NJ and California. No can't be true. Its gotta be the money.

That Money? All I've ever gotten for my son was a free year of public pre-school and a one time $300 grant from the govt to purchase educational software when when he was 5. So, I don't really see the big bucks people are rolling in because of their diagnoses. I spend more than that a month in my son's various therapies as well as medical and dietary requirements. I defy anyone to go walk into my son's school and tell me any of the 8 kids in his class are faking it? 8 kids...in a school of 200.

Listen, I do believe there is some over-diagnoses as people are more sensitive to the symptoms now and may have a child diagnosed who may have just been written off as quirky 20 years ago. But that's not the only reason, and to think that it is is just denial. Autism is a growing epidemic, and its easier for the unaffected to chalk it up to money grubbing welfare addicts than it is to face the fact that someone they love will likely have Autism in the next generation. But they will. And the older generation will remain in denial and keep saying how these kids just need a good smacking around so they learn how to act (as my grandfather told me to do with my 4 year old Autistic son 6 years ago) and there's nothing I can do to convince people with that level of naivete and ignorance on the topic. But just in case people who can be convinced are listening...these are people's children. For the most part a parent will not lie to get their child a disease for no reason. Not in the numbers occurring in this country for autism anyway. Just think of that next time before you start spewing claims with absolutely no facts to back it up about how its all made up.

 

[misterID]

Ok, my willpower has failed. I'm engaging.

The number is 1 in 68. 1 in 45 in my home state of NJ. 1 in 28 for boys.

Those national numbers should actually be higher as the CDC threw out an entire subset of people because it didn't fit their model. Those people? A community of Somali immigrants in Minnesota where the autism rate is so historically high, no one can figure out the cause. The speculation there? The theories are that it has to do with Vitamin D deficiency due to the nature of the community immigrating from a warm sunny climate to Minnesota. But to accept that, people would have to put aside their denial and accept that environmental factors do play a part in development and severity of autism. But no, it must be the money.

How about studies that show a higher prevalence of autism near congested highways. Or the possible link between air pollution and the higher incidences of autism in NJ and California. No can't be true. Its gotta be the money.

That Money? All I've ever gotten for my son was a free year of public pre-school and a one time $300 grant from the govt to purchase educational software when when he was 5. So, I don't really see the big bucks people are rolling in because of their diagnoses. I spend more than that a month in my son's various therapies as well as medical and dietary requirements. I defy anyone to go walk into my son's school and tell me any of the 8 kids in his class are faking it? 8 kids...in a school of 200.

Listen, I do believe there is some over-diagnoses as people are more sensitive to the symptoms now and may have a child diagnosed who may have just been written off as quirky 20 years ago. But that's not the only reason, and to think that it is is just denial. Autism is a growing epidemic, and its easier for the unaffected to chalk it up to money grubbing welfare addicts than it is to face the fact that someone they love will likely have Autism in the next generation. But they will. And the older generation will remain in denial and keep saying how these kids just need a good smacking around so they learn how to act (as my grandfather told me to do with my 4 year old Autistic son 6 years ago) and there's nothing I can do to convince people with that level of naivete and ignorance on the topic. But just in case people who can be convinced are listening...these are people's children. For the most part a parent will not lie to get their child a disease for no reason. Not in the numbers occurring in this country for autism anyway. Just think of that next time before you start spewing claims with absolutely no facts to back it up about how its all made up.

Yeah, I try to stay out of these threads because you always get someone with some type of resentment towards the disabled, or their "thoughts" about disabilities. I think it's just so foreign to people who never delt with it (or some who judge everyone through their own experiences with their own affliction, or just try to use their own "common sense" or repeat what they've heard on the radio or tv) that people do lose compassion. And no, I don't mean that as someone is heartless, or horrible, I just don't think they understand... But I have to say I would have never thought in a million years I would actually hear people state out loud some of the more insensitive (intentional or not) and even selfish statements about the disabled in these threads... not the frauds who are pretending to be disabled, or scamming the system, but real disabled men, women and children. These threads can get ugly. Perhaps it goes to some natural suspicion, or cynicism, or just plain out, "me first" attitudes, but I don't understand the comments like "I paid too, they're getting a better vacation than me!" "this is at the expense of my vacation" and my favorite, "my kids get tired, too! They don't want to walk either at the end of the day!" this has been said about real disabled people who were let on the bus first, not the scooters, the disabled. Seriously, people have actually said that.

There will be no getting through to some who take it upon themselves to judge the severity of everyones disabilites, and what they should or shouldn't have to help them.

Anyway, there are some good posts here (outside the typical and inevitable junk) and I want to thank everyone who has a disability, or connection to a disability that effects their life or their family. Thanks for sharing your stories and situations. You don't have to justify yourselves based on someones uninformed assumptions.

 

[xdan0920]

Ok, my willpower has failed. I'm engaging.

The number is 1 in 68. 1 in 45 in my home state of NJ. 1 in 28 for boys.

Those national numbers should actually be higher as the CDC threw out an entire subset of people because it didn't fit their model. Those people? A community of Somali immigrants in Minnesota where the autism rate is so historically high, no one can figure out the cause. The speculation there? The theories are that it has to do with Vitamin D deficiency due to the nature of the community immigrating from a warm sunny climate to Minnesota. But to accept that, people would have to put aside their denial and accept that environmental factors do play a part in development and severity of autism. But no, it must be the money.

How about studies that show a higher prevalence of autism near congested highways. Or the possible link between air pollution and the higher incidences of autism in NJ and California. No can't be true. Its gotta be the money.

That Money? All I've ever gotten for my son was a free year of public pre-school and a one time $300 grant from the govt to purchase educational software when when he was 5. So, I don't really see the big bucks people are rolling in because of their diagnoses. I spend more than that a month in my son's various therapies as well as medical and dietary requirements. I defy anyone to go walk into my son's school and tell me any of the 8 kids in his class are faking it? 8 kids...in a school of 200.

Listen, I do believe there is some over-diagnoses as people are more sensitive to the symptoms now and may have a child diagnosed who may have just been written off as quirky 20 years ago. But that's not the only reason, and to think that it is is just denial. Autism is a growing epidemic, and its easier for the unaffected to chalk it up to money grubbing welfare addicts than it is to face the fact that someone they love will likely have Autism in the next generation. But they will. And the older generation will remain in denial and keep saying how these kids just need a good smacking around so they learn how to act (as my grandfather told me to do with my 4 year old Autistic son 6 years ago) and there's nothing I can do to convince people with that level of naivete and ignorance on the topic. But just in case people who can be convinced are listening...these are people's children. For the most part a parent will not lie to get their child a disease for no reason. Not in the numbers occurring in this country for autism anyway. Just think of that next time before you start spewing claims with absolutely no facts to back it up about how its all made up.

I think the "money" that was being referenced was institutional in nature. Not welfare abusers. Meaning, it's in the medical communities best interest to diagnose Autism as often as possible. Because, the higher the percentages climb, the more $$$ gets poured into research/treatment.

Is that true? I dunno, I'm just a lowly working man. Not a scientist, damnit!

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled soap boxing.

 

[Gomer]

I think the "money" that was being referenced was institutional in nature. Not welfare abusers. Meaning, it's in the medical communities best interest to diagnose Autism as often as possible. Because, the higher the percentages climb, the more $$$ gets poured into research/treatment.

Is that true? I dunno, I'm just a lowly working man. Not a scientist, damnit!

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled soap boxing.

Ha! you have no idea how on point your comment really is.

You see. I could have probably been diagnosed with Asperger's as a child. My 3rd grade teacher tried to put me into special ed because of poor handwriting. My parents responded (and I use this word only to prove a point in historical context) "No. That's for the "retarded kids". So, they kept me in regular classes. (Don't worry, there's a point here) For years I struggled through school. I had trouble socializing, didn't look people in the eye, had poor small motor control, and minor dyslexia. And most importantly, I have an inability to retain information in large samples, such as reading a long paragraph or listening to a lecture, long speech, or any reading comprehension activities (point being, that's probably why I misunderstood the money comment above. Its early in the morning and I didn't do my due diligence to reread and understand like I might have elsewhere).

Anyway, I struggled through primary and high school, getting below average grades and thinking I just wasn't that bright. I ended up at a below average college, and only when I was more than half way through did I start to realize what my issues were. I was able to compensate for my own inabilities to retain information by breaking things down into short spurts and absorbing in a way fitting my own mind. And at that point I excelled.

Now, if I had been diagnosed at an early age and given the resources to learn how to adapt to my own learning issues would I have lived a happier and more productive life? Its impossible to say for certain, but I think so.

Rambling aside, my point is, so what if the doctor's are being given incentives to diagnose? I meet a lot of people on the spectrum and I have yet to meet someone with a diagnoses that didn't need one. If the incentives are driving people who may have been disregarded to get diagnosed and improve their lives to become more productive members of society how does that lessen their need or the prevalence of autism? It is just exposing the widespread nature of the problem that has been growing for some time.

 

[Minthorne]

If the child with autism has such a severe issue with waiting that the potential exists for the child to become violent and harm themselves or others if there is any wait for an attraction why would the parents subject the child to a potentially dangerous, emotionally damaging situation?

If the child cannot wait at all what would happen if they were right about to board and the ride went down?

It seems to me the accommodation being made is pretty reasonable. Promising no wait time ever is like promising no rain ever. Out of anyone's control.

 

[networkpro]

Unfortunately, lots of this classification is strictly due to monetary matters. People like nice well defined categories and abhor the unknown. Once a "class" or "category" has been assigned specific legal status, accommodation, or funding due to their membership in that group of course people want to bend the boundaries for inclusion of that group so it includes them.

People want to "fix" society to meet their own particular circumstances and desires regardless of how it impacts others.