Families of autistic kids sue Disney parks over policy on lines

[unkadug]

This is America! I have the right to do whatever I want, whenever I want, without consequence. Try and stop me and I'll sue you for $10 million!

IT'S CALLED FREEDOM PEOPLE!

uhhh...no you don't

 

[RSoxNo1]

I have an autistic brother. In my opinion Universals set up is the most reasonable. Disney's is reasonable and while combining it with Fastpass+ helps it would be more convenient if it can all be done on a phone.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

uhhh...no you don't

That's the joke.

 

[Tom Morrow]

That's the joke.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Get stuck in line with an autistic kid during a meltdown. Yeah, it's pretty terrible. I have no problem letting them ahead of the line.

I think Disney and 99% of the people on the boards agree. It's trying to find a way to help the people that need help, while keeping away the scammers and staying within the law that's the problem. Disney was happy to provide the service for many years; I'm sure they knew that some people had the GAC that didn't need it. I think Al Lutz reported that as many as 1/3 of the guests riding Radiator Springs Racers when it first opened were using GAC... the scammers are the only reason the system changed.

 

[rct247]

Latest News or last I heard of anything new

I re-read through the lawsuit and even I could rip that document to shreds with counterarguments. I knew Disney would do the same. The document present some very opinionated, sometimes false information.While I am not discounting any of the people involved and their experiences and disabilities, the arguments are just not good. Almost all of the statements can be backed up with research and data findings. I still think that the overall outcome of this will result in a few minor changes, but overall it will remain the same and Disney will win.

I think many people can agree that almost a year later, much of the outrage and controversy has died down.

 

[misterID]

I think Disney and 99% of the people on the boards agree. It's trying to find a way to help the people that need help, while keeping away the scammers and staying within the law that's the problem. Disney was happy to provide the service for many years; I'm sure they knew that some people had the GAC that didn't need it. I think Al Lutz reported that as many as 1/3 of the guests riding Radiator Springs Racers when it first opened were using GAC... the scammers are the only reason the system changed.

People determined to scam the system will find a way no matter what. My point of view is that they should do everything they can to prevent fraud, but not at the expense of anyone who really needs it.

 

[xstech25]

This is a classic case of someone thinking they could get what they want by playing the sympathy card and threatening to cause a big stir. Sadly their plan backfired as the court of public opinion is overwhelmingly on Disney's side. There is no evidence whatsoever that Disney isn't following ADA, this is going to cost these people big $$

How sad...

 

[Yensid1974]

The people scamming the system weren't the only reason for the change. With FP+, they needed to better gauge and control the flow of people in and through attraction queue's. With GAC, it was very difficult to determine how many of those guests were going to be using their cards to go through the FP line. While this isn't the sole reason, or even the biggest reason for the change it still played a part.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

This is a classic case of someone thinking they could get what they want by playing the sympathy card and threatening to cause a big stir. Sadly their plan backfired as the court of public opinion is overwhelmingly on Disney's side. There is no evidence whatsoever that Disney isn't following ADA, this is going to cost these people big $$

How sad...

It's not going to cost the people any $$ - the lawyers are likely working on commission and this lawsuit is their way of gambling (a little bit of their time, with the potential of a huge money settlement or award by jury). I'm a lawyer, and I know (as these lawyers know) that anytime you step into court, regardless of of the merits of your case - or any facts, or evidence, or testimony, etc - there's a built in 20% chance you will lose (just because the judge is having a bad day, or someone on the jury knows an autistic person, or someone on the jury's ex-husband used to have the same haircut as your lawyer) and a 20% chance you will win. These lawyers are betting on that 20%.

 

[Billq]

suing just for the sake of suing.. not even TRYING to work with the new system.. That's all this is....

Your exactly right, these parents are using their children to make people feel sorry for them so that they can profit from it. It is no different than me suing Disney because they didn't provide cool drinks and foot massages for waiting in line for so long.

 

[TP2000]

I think Al Lutz reported that as many as 1/3 of the guests riding Radiator Springs Racers when it first opened were using GAC... the scammers are the only reason the system changed.

BINGO!

Most East Coasters (WDW visitors and/or fans) don't understand that. Al Lutz with his famous Disneyland-centric viewpoint broke this story wide open and filled in the blanks after the Good Morning America fiasco. It was the rampant abuse at, specifically, Radiator Springs Racers back in 2012 that proved to TDA executives, and thus Burbank executives who could actually force the issue, that the old GAC system was broken and full of abuse.

Radiator Springs Racers in '12, as the best ride since Indiana Jones Adventure in '95, if not Space Mountain in '77, brought the GAC abuse to focused attention that even the most obtuse TDA executive could no longer ignore.

Funny what a really, really good E Ticket attraction can do to people. And executives.

And thus came the DAS program to America. But in my amateur observations on my bi-weekly visits to the Disneyland Resort, the DAS program has devolved back to almost where the GAC program was five years ago.

 

[MissM]

If you saw her walking, you wouldn't realize what her problem is - she just walks a little slow. However, she is in chronic pain - and I mean PAIN - and some days any form of physical exertion takes all the grit she can muster. In a few years, she will be completely disabled and in a wheelchair - she is in her mid-20s. But if you were to see her in line at one of rides, you wouldn't know unless you were very knowledgeable about RA and observant. Can she stand in line for more than 20 minutes? No. Would she try so not to inconvenience others in line? Yes. Should any of us question her right to go to the head of the line? Absolutely not.

In your example, though equal wouldn't be immediate front of the line access, it would be an accommodation for her to sit comfortably during the wait time instead of needing to stand for the duration of the wait. So providing a return time that would still be equal to the length of the standby in which she could sit and relax and then entrance to the front of the line upon return time, would be appropriate and equal access.

Please understand, I am extremely familiar with RA. My own mother is disabled with Mixed Connective Tissue Disorder and suffers from RA, Lupus, Raynaud's and more. So I understand limitations on walking or standing for long periods of time. I'm not in anyway trying to devalue the struggle of dealing with a chronic, debilitating or disabling condition. But there is a big difference between accommodating for equality of access and giving people carte blanche to skip all lines at all times which is what these plaintiffs want. That's not equal treatment, it's special treatment.

 

[Mouse_Trap]

Watching a mother deal with the meltdown of her autistic son in Pinocchio's Village, I have a great deal of compassion for families who want to give their children who have challenges some semblance of the Disney experience kids without such obstacles have.

Can she stand in line for more than 20 minutes? No. Would she try so not to inconvenience others in line? Yes. Should any of us question her right to go to the head of the line? Absolutely not.

It is unfortunate that because of the abuse of some and resulting policy changes, individuals like PBB no longer feel welcomed at WDW.

I think most people are very compassionate to those who care for an autistic person, however the problem with the GAC was the widespread abuse of the system. Too many people were claiming they had a disability which required additional accommodation, and Disney being far too generous in the accommodation they were providing to everyone who asked.


Are you saying she should have immediate, priority access to any and all rides (at least if the have a line longer than 20 minutes)?

IMO, such a person is entitled to go to the "head of the line" once they have waited out the standard wait time in a location which better assists them in the management of their disability. This could be a bench, bathroom, wheelchair or whatever they need.


People like PBB are absolutely still welcomed at WDW. If they don't feel that way, that's their problem. To be fair, anyone had unlimited use fastpasses for the past 5-10 years would probably feel the same at first.

 

[LAKid53]

I think most people are very compassionate to those who care for an autistic person, however the problem with the GAC was the widespread abuse of the system. Too many people were claiming they had a disability which required additional accommodation, and Disney being far too generous in the accommodation they were providing to everyone who asked.


Are you saying she should have immediate, priority access to any and all rides (at least if the have a line longer than 20 minutes)?

IMO, such a person is entitled to go to the "head of the line" once they have waited out the standard wait time in a location which better assists them in the management of their disability. This could be a bench, bathroom, wheelchair or whatever they need.


People like PBB are absolutely still welcomed at WDW. If they don't feel that way, that's their problem. To be fair, anyone had unlimited use fastpasses for the past 5-10 years would probably feel the same at first.

If she had to stand waiting longer than 20 minutes, she wouldn't be able to do so. However, if Disney provided a place where she could sit - waiting in a bathroom isn't feasible for any of the rides - then she would be able to wait longer than 20 minutes. Having witnessed the struggles of someone who has a disability such as hers, I don't have a problem with her going to the head of the line. Your response is unreasonable at the very least. Frankly, I'd like to hear from the parents of autistic children and how the changes will affect them. In essence, are you saying that, too bad if you or your family member has any type or level of disability, you can't go ahead of me in line?

It is unfortunate that individuals abused the system, forcing Disney to make changes that would impact guests with disabilities. I don't know why Disney cannot provide the ID I mentioned in my earlier post - said ID would be obtainable with a doctor's note, such as you need to get handicapped parking permits in most states.

 

[Sped2424]

 

[Gomer]

Frankly, I'd like to hear from the parents of autistic children and how the changes will affect them. In essence, are you saying that, too bad if you or your family member has any type or level of disability, you can't go ahead of me in line?

I’d wager a guess that you aren’t hearing much from parents of children with autism on the new developments because we’re all probably a bit burnt out on the topic. Maybe it’s just me, but I had to summon up the strength just to come into this thread to see what was going on. After I’ve written near a hundred posts on the subject, I’m just sort of sick of it.

If you really want to see the debate, go back and check out the hundreds of pages the initial DAS threads wrought. There are a few different threads as they would get shut down occasionally.

To sum it up for you. DAS works for some, but not others. Autism is a spectrum which means that different symptoms affect different people, which means that each has specific needs making the functionality of DAS/GAC dependent on the affected person’s situation.

This then of course begs the question, what is a need and what is a desire? What level of responsibility do parents take in adapting to the new system and what level of responsibility does Disney take in not only making their facilities accessible but also comfortable for those with autism? And beyond responsibility, what benefits does Disney get in making it a comfortable environment and at what point the pros of making charitable concessions to some get outweighed by the cons of the levels of abuse?

In the end, the thread always devolves into arguments over at what point a person isn’t fit to be in a theme park, which then in turns leads to accusations of cold-heartedness, which again in turn quickly devolves into name calling, and then inevitable trolling by people looking to stir up those who are sensitive to the topic.

We’ve been through it too many times, I’d guess many like myself don’t have the energy or desire to go through it again.

 

[Spikerdink]

[QUOTE="I don't know why Disney cannot provide the ID I mentioned in my earlier post - said ID would be obtainable with a doctor's note, such as you need to get handicapped parking permits in most states.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, there are many doctors out there who will sign any paper for a few bucks or just because they don't realize the implications of what they are doing. Here in NY there were arrests of doctors who would write prescriptions for oxycodone for a fee. No need for an examination, no need for a follow up - just here is your prescription see ya in a month. Trust me, people will be looking for anyway to scam the system.

Disney will never be able to create a perfect system for guest with disabilities since there are so many levels to what a guest may need. All they can do is keep refining and make the park as accessible as possible. It does not have to be a front of the line pass, but just needs reasonable accommodations.

 

[Mouse_Trap]

If she had to stand waiting longer than 20 minutes, she wouldn't be able to do so. However, if Disney provided a place where she could sit - waiting in a bathroom isn't feasible for any of the rides - then she would be able to wait longer than 20 minutes. Having witnessed the struggles of someone who has a disability such as hers, I don't have a problem with her going to the head of the line. Your response is unreasonable at the very least. Frankly, I'd like to hear from the parents of autistic children and how the changes will affect them. In essence, are you saying that, too bad if you or your family member has any type or level of disability, you can't go ahead of me in line?

It is unfortunate that individuals abused the system, forcing Disney to make changes that would impact guests with disabilities. I don't know why Disney cannot provide the ID I mentioned in my earlier post - said ID would be obtainable with a doctor's note, such as you need to get handicapped parking permits in most states.

Sorry, I didn't mean that she should wait in a bathroom for 20+minutes, I was just mentioning some of the allowances some people may need in order to have 'equal' access.

So using the DAS system, she would be able to experience everything that anyone else could.
Go to a ride, get a return time, go an site on a nearby bench - maybe go to a cafe and return after the posted wait time (mins -10 mins iirc). She then utilises the fastpass line which means a very limited amount of standing (maybe 10 minutes), if this is too much standing then she probably needs to make use of a wheelchair to deal with the lines in which case she is able to use the regular line with everyone else.

So no, I don't think my response is unreasonable, and yes I am saying that just because someone has (or is with someone who has) a disability shouldn't mean they get to bypass the entire line on each and every ride and attraction.

Most people have a high degree of compassion for people who have severe disabilities and this is why schemes like 'Make a Wish foundation' still get the front of the line access. However, when you open up such access to the wider population you get widescale abuse and people overplay the disability.

Yes, this is disapointing for those who truly have severe disabilities that such benefits they once received have been curtailed due to their overuse and abuse. However, 90% of the people I know with a severe disability what nothing more than to be treated the same as everyone else and not singled out for special attention.

The now current scheme achieves this, whilst allowing those who cannot be part of long lines (for whatever reason) to not be in them, they can wait elsewhere and later return sans queuing. There is still an advantage to this over a non-DAS user as they can anything whilst waiting out the queue time, be that a show, parade, dinner, shopping or even another ride with a line of an acceptable length.

 

[GrumpyFan]

"I don't know why Disney cannot provide the ID I mentioned in my earlier post - said ID would be obtainable with a doctor's note, such as you need to get handicapped parking permits in most states."

Sadly, there are many doctors out there who will sign any paper for a few bucks or just because they don't realize the implications of what they are doing. Here in NY there were arrests of doctors who would write prescriptions for oxycodone for a fee. No need for an examination, no need for a follow up - just here is your prescription see ya in a month. Trust me, people will be looking for anyway to scam the system.

Aside from this, I don't think Disney really wants to get into the business of trying to look at guests' doctors notes and determine validity. I believe doing so potentially opens the door to HIPAA ADA violations as well. A guests' medical issues are really of no business to Disney whatsoever. From everything I've read on this, it would seem that Disney has done everything within the letter of the law, which says that they need to provide reasonable access to attractions and facilities, which they have done. The problem many of these parents are complaining about is due to the fact that the prior version of the system went above the law, and offered more than was required, allowing for greater flexibility for those who needed it, but also allowing for the low-lifes to take advantage of the system.