The abuse at DLR was mainly annual passholders who abused it every weekend, and was actually much worse based on some reports.
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Families of autistic kids sue Disney parks over policy on lines
- Thread starter GrumpyFan
- Start date
The abuse at DLR was mainly annual passholders who abused it every weekend, and was actually much worse based on some reports.
I would say it was more along the lines of 40%, 30%, 30%. At one time it may have been 5% abusers, but as the internet became more and more a source for good Disney planning info, it also became a place to find the ways to abuse Disney. The problem is the number will be never truly known because its impossible to look at someone who doesn't have an obvious physical disability and know whether they truly need a GAC or not.
PBB
New Member
<SIGH>............I guess the controversy over the DAS/GAC will never end. Thankfully, we live in a country where the disabled are more or less welcomed in the general public. The ADA provided the disabled civil right status in which businesses, employers and government could not discriminate. I became disabled in 2006. We never knew of the GAC card until 2013. Using the card allowed me to return to a somewhat normal WDW visit.
I never viewed the GAC as a right. Nor did I view it as a perk of my disability. The fact is we traveled off season to avoid crowds and we used the card 4-6 times a trip if that. The 4-6 times it was used were for Rides such as Soarin. Like most disabled, the majority of E Ticket rides are a challenge.
I would imagine a super majority of disabled people or families do not spend all day at the parks. If I was lucky I could last 5 hours at most. I do not get the same bang for my buck out of a pass than a non-disabled person.
The ADA does not allow for a registration or ID cards. Technically, a businessperson can't ask even ask what is your disability. They have to rely upon the disabled person to express that they are disabled and that they need a reasonable accommodation. So, it has to be a huge challenge for Disney.
I do blame Disney for mismanaging the GAC cards. I was never asked to match my card with my ID. That would have stopped people from "borrowing" cards. Personally, I believe if they had policed the program and kicked out the offenders it would have stopped the abuse. The whole tour guide thing could have easily been remedied by stating it was not to be used for commercial purposes and then if caught ban the offenders. Also, I believe that the card should have listed the people in the GAC holders party and again check ID.
I also blame the internet and Society. The internet is a double edged sword. While Disney type provide a wealth of information. People share how they cheat the system. GAC was something that was shared. In regard to society, people feel cheated that they a disabled person is in a fast pass line and they are not. Jealousy has been around since mankind. I wish the jealous could live a day in the life of a disabled person. That jealousy would go away and be replaced by compassion. There are many learning moments at WDW or Disneyland. Parents could use such events to teach children about compassion. Unfortunately, there are a lot of parents who don't understand the concept. Plus,I have noticed over the past decade how cut throat parents have become at the parks. The Dumbo Do or Die mentality changes parental perspective.
I did not like how Disney handled the whole thing last October. They caused a lot of families a lot of angst by the various leaks or trial balloons. Disney is no longer a primary annual vacation destination for us. This subject in combination with the Algorithm marketing concept that has been embraced at Disney shows me that Disney has forgotten what the word "Hospitality" means. I am not interested in Disney monitoring every purchase and trying to calculate a way to up-sell me a product or experience. If I want that I will go buy a family truckster. I wonder how many people would return to a B&B if they found the owner in their room rummaging thru their receipts on the counter to use that info to sell them a better experience in the future.
Disney has become a great marketing company...........Iger did a great job transforming customer service service into a call center like a cable company.
I never viewed the GAC as a right. Nor did I view it as a perk of my disability. The fact is we traveled off season to avoid crowds and we used the card 4-6 times a trip if that. The 4-6 times it was used were for Rides such as Soarin. Like most disabled, the majority of E Ticket rides are a challenge.
I would imagine a super majority of disabled people or families do not spend all day at the parks. If I was lucky I could last 5 hours at most. I do not get the same bang for my buck out of a pass than a non-disabled person.
The ADA does not allow for a registration or ID cards. Technically, a businessperson can't ask even ask what is your disability. They have to rely upon the disabled person to express that they are disabled and that they need a reasonable accommodation. So, it has to be a huge challenge for Disney.
I do blame Disney for mismanaging the GAC cards. I was never asked to match my card with my ID. That would have stopped people from "borrowing" cards. Personally, I believe if they had policed the program and kicked out the offenders it would have stopped the abuse. The whole tour guide thing could have easily been remedied by stating it was not to be used for commercial purposes and then if caught ban the offenders. Also, I believe that the card should have listed the people in the GAC holders party and again check ID.
I also blame the internet and Society. The internet is a double edged sword. While Disney type provide a wealth of information. People share how they cheat the system. GAC was something that was shared. In regard to society, people feel cheated that they a disabled person is in a fast pass line and they are not. Jealousy has been around since mankind. I wish the jealous could live a day in the life of a disabled person. That jealousy would go away and be replaced by compassion. There are many learning moments at WDW or Disneyland. Parents could use such events to teach children about compassion. Unfortunately, there are a lot of parents who don't understand the concept. Plus,I have noticed over the past decade how cut throat parents have become at the parks. The Dumbo Do or Die mentality changes parental perspective.
I did not like how Disney handled the whole thing last October. They caused a lot of families a lot of angst by the various leaks or trial balloons. Disney is no longer a primary annual vacation destination for us. This subject in combination with the Algorithm marketing concept that has been embraced at Disney shows me that Disney has forgotten what the word "Hospitality" means. I am not interested in Disney monitoring every purchase and trying to calculate a way to up-sell me a product or experience. If I want that I will go buy a family truckster. I wonder how many people would return to a B&B if they found the owner in their room rummaging thru their receipts on the counter to use that info to sell them a better experience in the future.
Disney has become a great marketing company...........Iger did a great job transforming customer service service into a call center like a cable company.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I stand corrected. I'm pretty sure I did read somewhere that CMs were a problem, but you are probably right that there aren't enough of them to matter.
Mouse_Trap
Well-Known Member
and if they allow 5, it will only be time until it's upped to unlimited and we have the GAC situation all over.
I am confident this case will get thrown out pretty quickly, I don't buy for a minute that DAS is not a reasonable adjustment. Some people will do anything to get their unlimited fasspass back.....in someways you can understand it, especially if you have hardly waited for a ride in 15 years.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
You are probably right that someone would still complain. No matter what the system is you can't please everyone so Disney needs to just determine if their is a valid problem impacting guests using DAS and then address it.
In reference to the 5 FP limit, I do think it would satisfy a lot of people with real needs. How many rides have really long waits? Outside of MK there isn't a park with 5 rides over 30 min waits during most times of the year. Many people who would legitimately need the system don't stay in the parks for a 12+ hour day. They just can't. Even if they had unlimited FPs they probably wouldn't use a lot more than 5. Now the abusers, that's a different story. They could take the unlimited FPs and ride all day long. Limiting to 5 would significantly reduce the appeal to those willing to commit fraud to get to the front of the line. Especially considering you get 3 FP reservations anyway, it's not that big of an upgrade.
armyfamilyof5
Well-Known Member
I have stump neuroma's in both my feet and have had surgery 4 times. I cannot stand in line for long periods of time due to the pain. I also cannot walk the park all day so I go early and non peak times and have never used a wheelchair or a GAC. I know my limitations and Disney doesn't own me unlimited fast passes because I have them. If they do start offering 5 unlimited fastpasses to complainers it will turn into another gaffe just like the GAC did. I too hope this suit is quickly dismissed!
FutureCEO
Well-Known Member
Latest News or last I heard of anything new
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
The best part of the whole thing is that ADA only requires "EQUAL" access. There is nothing about "special" access or privilege. It was instituted because so many places had entrances issues with stairs and door widths. It was never intended to make life easier, just accessible. Unfortunately, the courts are not ADA and they sometimes tend to not understand the reasons. ADA itself, does not really get involved usually. They just supply the law and the judges interpret it whatever way they see it.
PirateFrank
Well-Known Member
We live in an entitlement society right now. Disney is no different.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
This is America! I have the right to do whatever I want, whenever I want, without consequence. Try and stop me and I'll sue you for $10 million!
IT'S CALLED FREEDOM PEOPLE!
G00fyDad
Well-Known Member
Disney's lawyer used the word "prolixity"? There they go again, overestimating their audience.
What does overestimating mean?
Watching a mother deal with the meltdown of her autistic son in Pinocchio's Village, I have a great deal of compassion for families who want to give their children who have challenges some semblance of the Disney experience kids without such obstacles have. I worked with a young woman who has RA. By looking at her, you wouldn't know it - she looks fit and struggles to maintain some semblance of physical agility, with the help of medicine that can have serious side affects. If you saw her walking, you wouldn't realize what her problem is - she just walks a little slow. However, she is in chronic pain - and I mean PAIN - and some days any form of physical exertion takes all the grit she can muster. In a few years, she will be completely disabled and in a wheelchair - she is in her mid-20s. But if you were to see her in line at one of rides, you wouldn't know unless you were very knowledgeable about RA and observant. Can she stand in line for more than 20 minutes? No. Would she try so not to inconvenience others in line? Yes. Should any of us question her right to go to the head of the line? Absolutely not.
It is unfortunate that because of the abuse of some and resulting policy changes, individuals like PBB no longer feel welcomed at WDW. What should Disney do? What states do for handicapped parking permits. Require a doctor's statement (create a form to make it easy). Give Guest Services the ability to take the form, create an ID that contains the photo of the disabled individual and like PBB says, list the family members that will accompany the individual and charge a nominal fee for the card, if need be. However, make sure the card doesn't contain a magnetic strip that would hold demographic information about the cardholder. If the individual is incapacitated for a specific period of time, say after surgery or injury, include an expiration date on the ID card. All the person then has to do then is show the card to the CMs managing the ride to receive whatever assistance their disability needs - go to the head of the line, wait in shaded area, etc. Since the start for this would be from the individual's physician, I would hope such a system would lessen the possibility of abuse. I don't know what Disney required to get the old GAC, but it appears the new system isn't function well, either.
It is unfortunate that because of the abuse of some and resulting policy changes, individuals like PBB no longer feel welcomed at WDW. What should Disney do? What states do for handicapped parking permits. Require a doctor's statement (create a form to make it easy). Give Guest Services the ability to take the form, create an ID that contains the photo of the disabled individual and like PBB says, list the family members that will accompany the individual and charge a nominal fee for the card, if need be. However, make sure the card doesn't contain a magnetic strip that would hold demographic information about the cardholder. If the individual is incapacitated for a specific period of time, say after surgery or injury, include an expiration date on the ID card. All the person then has to do then is show the card to the CMs managing the ride to receive whatever assistance their disability needs - go to the head of the line, wait in shaded area, etc. Since the start for this would be from the individual's physician, I would hope such a system would lessen the possibility of abuse. I don't know what Disney required to get the old GAC, but it appears the new system isn't function well, either.
misterID
Well-Known Member
Get stuck in line with an autistic kid during a meltdown. Yeah, it's pretty terrible. I have no problem letting them ahead of the line. And it's not their fault, they really can't help it. But it gets UGLY. And I feel bad for the kid's parents. And before we get the, "well, the parents should do this or that..." It's not the end of the world or hurting my vacation to let them have a pass to have a good day at the parks. It's not the end of the world. I don't understand taking infants to WDW. But people do, and they're allowed to, and it's not my place to say otherwise.
I don't look at it as an etitlement. If someone's average day is basically half of what I'm able to do, again, I have no problem letting them ahead of the line, because I view that as making it equal, not better.
I am changing my mind about the scooters, though. I've given a lot of them a pass with the fact you cannot determine what someone's disability is by the old eyeball test. Having said that, and at risk of being a hypocrite... My father uses a wheelchair at Disney, and looking around it sure looks like a majority of the scooter people are using one because they don't want to walk. The CM's (it's funny, you want to see them break "character" bring up the scooters) I was told by one who was helping my father that they rarely help people in wheelchairs anymore, it's all scooters and they can be absolutley horrible. They actually appreciate helping people in wheelchairs now. And just the eyeball test, there seems to be a whole of them who are able to transfer to ride vehicles, very easily, whenever it suits them.
I don't look at it as an etitlement. If someone's average day is basically half of what I'm able to do, again, I have no problem letting them ahead of the line, because I view that as making it equal, not better.
I am changing my mind about the scooters, though. I've given a lot of them a pass with the fact you cannot determine what someone's disability is by the old eyeball test. Having said that, and at risk of being a hypocrite... My father uses a wheelchair at Disney, and looking around it sure looks like a majority of the scooter people are using one because they don't want to walk. The CM's (it's funny, you want to see them break "character" bring up the scooters) I was told by one who was helping my father that they rarely help people in wheelchairs anymore, it's all scooters and they can be absolutley horrible. They actually appreciate helping people in wheelchairs now. And just the eyeball test, there seems to be a whole of them who are able to transfer to ride vehicles, very easily, whenever it suits them.
G00fyDad
Well-Known Member
My mother will be using an ECV this coming trip with us. It will be her first time going to Disney and she cannot walk for long periods of time. She will use the ECV, and then park it with the strollers and walk to the ride line and wait her turn like everyone else. Her choice. I didn't even mention this to her.
misterID
Well-Known Member
That's good. I hope you enjoy your trip.
Monty
Brilliant...and Canadian
- In the Parks
- No
I suspect the Judge in the case, to whom the brief in question was filed, would not consider himself "overestimated" by the use of a standard legal term.Disney's lawyer used the word "prolixity"? There they go again, overestimating their audience.
Lawyers generally try to avoid net-isms such as "TL:dr"!