Express Transportation starting Dec 7th

Kman101

Well-Known Member
It's the low season now. And try actually filtering WHERE you are and a reasonable time. Free slots at 930pm in Epcot don't help you at MK at 6pm when you are hungry

I've looked many times not just "low season" which is thrown out often when I've done this. The point remains many ADRs are available day of. Sure you could pick it apart and some times weren't ideal.

Lots of restaurants available for breakfast and dinner for larger parties tomorrow. Over 50 for dinner. But I'll gladly check come "busy" season if you'd like. And you can always try and check for a better time after making the reservations.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I've looked many times not just "low season" which is thrown out often when I've done this. The point remains many ADRs are available day of. Sure you could pick it apart and some times weren't ideal.

"Ideal" and stupid are not even close. We did this exercise just last week. Do a practical example not 'I just looked on the web for any match' junk.

Reality is if you don't plan ahead... your options are extremely limited... and usually pathetic.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
"Ideal" and stupid are not even close. We did this exercise just last week. Do a practical example not 'I just looked on the web for any match' junk.

Reality is if you don't plan ahead... your options are extremely limited... and usually pathetic.

Ok. What is practical to you. I've done this many times. You're nitpicking and arguing to be right

I'll be more than happy to check daily for various party sizes. Should we chat about what's available for FP?

Obviously mileage may vary and times aren't ideal but it doesn't negate plenty could be available day of.
 
Last edited:

Kman101

Well-Known Member
The point? You did the same thing I did. So what? Obviously each day will be different and not the same. I assumed that went without saying. That was last week. This is this week. Because you saw limited availability doesn't meant that's the norm and neither is my example.
 
Last edited:

flynnibus

Premium Member
The point? You did the same thing I did. So what? Obviously each day will be different and not the same. I assumed that went without saying.

The difference was I used real world inputs and actually applied common sense to the output.

No one has any interest in what table options are available 'anywhere on property' when you are trying to setup an adhoc meal. Not everyone thinks eating dinner at 9pm+ is acceptable.

And I'm not overlooking realities like Disney not even letting people wait without adrs

To dismiss the challenges and need for advance planning is beyond rediculous.

The entire planning industry around Disney was just completely unnecessary all these years and they've been successful just for what???

You can go without planning and you will get scraps. Contrast that with alternative models like dlr and its night and day for the same kind of product. It's reality... no matter how accustomed people are to the wdw model.

At wdw, if you don't optimize, you steer your trip around availability instead of desires.
 

Next Big Thing

Well-Known Member
It's the low season now. And try actually filtering WHERE you are and a reasonable time. Free slots at 930pm in Epcot don't help you at MK at 6pm when you are hungry

It was called same day reservations. Worldkey

I've looked many times not just "low season" which is thrown out often when I've done this. The point remains many ADRs are available day of. Sure you could pick it apart and some times weren't ideal.

Lots of restaurants available for breakfast and dinner for larger parties tomorrow. Over 50 for dinner. But I'll gladly check come "busy" season if you'd like. And you can always try and check for a better time after making the reservations.

"Ideal" and stupid are not even close. We did this exercise just last week. Do a practical example not 'I just looked on the web for any match' junk.

Reality is if you don't plan ahead... your options are extremely limited... and usually pathetic.

Ok. What is practical to you. I've done this many times. You're nitpicking and arguing to be right

I'll be more than happy to check daily for various party sizes. Should we chat about what's available for FP?

Obviously mileage may vary and times aren't ideal but it doesn't negate plenty could be available day of.


The point? You did the same thing I did. So what? Obviously each day will be different and not the same. I assumed that went without saying. That was last week. This is this week. Because you saw limited availability doesn't meant that's the norm and neither is my example.

The difference was I used real world inputs and actually applied common sense to the output.

No one has any interest in what table options are available 'anywhere on property' when you are trying to setup an adhoc meal. Not everyone thinks eating dinner at 9pm+ is acceptable.

And I'm not overlooking realities like Disney not even letting people wait without adrs

To dismiss the challenges and need for advance planning is beyond rediculous.

The entire planning industry around Disney was just completely unnecessary all these years and they've been successful just for what???

You can go without planning and you will get scraps. Contrast that with alternative models like dlr and its night and day for the same kind of product. It's reality... no matter how accustomed people are to the wdw model.

At wdw, if you don't optimize, you steer your trip around availability instead of desires.
Get a room, guys.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
The difference was I used real world inputs and actually applied common sense to the output.

No one has any interest in what table options are available 'anywhere on property' when you are trying to setup an adhoc meal. Not everyone thinks eating dinner at 9pm+ is acceptable.

And I'm not overlooking realities like Disney not even letting people wait without adrs

To dismiss the challenges and need for advance planning is beyond rediculous.

The entire planning industry around Disney was just completely unnecessary all these years and they've been successful just for what???

You can go without planning and you will get scraps. Contrast that with alternative models like dlr and its night and day for the same kind of product. It's reality... no matter how accustomed people are to the wdw model.

At wdw, if you don't optimize, you steer your trip around availability instead of desires.

:joyfull:
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
Not even close. Rides that were previously walk-ons went to 20-30 minute waits when FP was added. On average, FP adds about 30 minutes on wait times, as the riders are 80% FP 20% standby. Additionally you have the issue of all of the people holding Fastpasses who then get into another queue. Disney originally expected these people to be shopping or dining, not doubling up on attractions. It's a good idea during peak times for peak attractions but has been taken to the extreme and now people have come to expect it.

When are you talking about? Before they came up with FP in 1999? When they had millions of less visitors a year. Of course the lines were under 20 minutes, I remember those days. And when they came out with FP the lines were still that short and the FP was walk on. FP is not the evil here, its the amount of people that are in the parks now.
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
I agree there are a lot of factors to consider. I think what frustrates me is how poorly the standby lines function with FP+ as it currently stands. I don't fully understand the dynamic. I'm guessing they are giving out more FPs now than in the past? For popular attractions, the standby line is at an hour shortly after opening. That didn't usually happen with the paper FPs, even on busier days (the lines would grow as the day wore on, but not so early in the morning). In fact, it feels like the standby lines are longer now than they've ever been since I started going to WDW in the early 90s - before FP existed... lower attendance yes but before Animal Kingdom opened.

I don't like the planning but I do it (since I dislike lines even more). So I do my 3 FP+ attractions and then try to figure out what I'm going to do next that doesn't require a 45-minute+ wait. As a result I don't feel like I get the same value from my pass.

I thought the whole purpose of FP+ is so people didn't have to spend as much time in line.

In the early 90s you didn't have the amount of visitors that you have now. FP or no, you will have long lines. The only way to combat that is to let less people in.
 

pax_65

Well-Known Member
In the early 90s you didn't have the amount of visitors that you have now. FP or no, you will have long lines. The only way to combat that is to let less people in.

Just for kicks I looked up attendance figures. In 1997 (before AK opened and before paper FP), 39.3 million people visited the 3 WDW parks. In 2016, attendance was 53.6 million with 10.8 million visiting AK. When you subtract the AK numbers you have 42.8 million in the other 3 parks vs. 39.3 million in 1997. That's certainly a increase but it's not as huge as you might have imagined.

Also interesting... that increase is entirely at the Magic Kingdom (2016: 20.4M vs 1997: 17M). Epcot actually had MORE visitors in 1997 (11.7M in 2016, 11.8M in 1997). Studios were basically even (10.7M vs 10.5M).

So bottom line... attendance might be the reason the lines are long at the Magic Kingdom but not at the other parks. (I will admit the lines are worst at the MK.) The other parks need more attractions to balance the crowd levels better - a problem made worse by FP+ because the FPs for the headliner attractions are gobbled up and the standby lines don't move.

Hopefully the new attractions now planned/being built will help. We'll see I guess!
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
Just for kicks I looked up attendance figures. In 1997 (before AK opened and before paper FP), 39.3 million people visited the 3 WDW parks. In 2016, attendance was 53.6 million with 10.8 million visiting AK. When you subtract the AK numbers you have 42.8 million in the other 3 parks vs. 39.3 million in 1997. That's certainly a increase but it's not as huge as you might have imagined.

Also interesting... that increase is entirely at the Magic Kingdom (2016: 20.4M vs 1997: 17M). Epcot actually had MORE visitors in 1997 (11.7M in 2016, 11.8M in 1997). Studios were basically even (10.7M vs 10.5M).

So bottom line... attendance might be the reason the lines are long at the Magic Kingdom but not at the other parks. (I will admit the lines are worst at the MK.) The other parks need more attractions to balance the crowd levels better - a problem made worse by FP+ because the FPs for the headliner attractions are gobbled up and the standby lines don't move.

Hopefully the new attractions now planned/being built will help. We'll see I guess!

I think that the seasons where more defined back then. You would get the majority of the tourists during the summer and holidays but the rest of the year it was very dead. A person was able to find a time where there were little to no waits on the rides compared to now when they have are busy year round. So when they go now and see the long lines where there never used to be they tend to blame the FP for it instead of just seeing that it is attendance. And even an extra 2 million people annually is huge.
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
I think that the seasons where more defined back then. You would get the majority of the tourists during the summer and holidays but the rest of the year it was very dead. A person was able to find a time where there were little to no waits on the rides compared to now when they have are busy year round. So when they go now and see the long lines where there never used to be they tend to blame the FP for it instead of just seeing that it is attendance. And even an extra 2 million people annually is huge.

Early December used to be known as "dead time"...the Studios closed at 8 and had no night show on most evenings, MK closed at 7PM and had Fireworks on select nights and Epcot was just 9PM. It was a very different experience. You could easily walk on most rides or the lines were very very short. A day at the MK was almost relaxing, as you could easily get on rides.

Now with festivals, athletic teams, groups and others, the crowd levels are somewhere between really busy and insanity. there may have been a similar number of people, but they spread was much wider on when people would be there.
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
Early December used to be known as "dead time"...the Studios closed at 8 and had no night show on most evenings, MK closed at 7PM and had Fireworks on select nights and Epcot was just 9PM. It was a very different experience. You could easily walk on most rides or the lines were very very short. A day at the MK was almost relaxing, as you could easily get on rides.

Now with festivals, athletic teams, groups and others, the crowd levels are somewhere between really busy and insanity. there may have been a similar number of people, but they spread was much wider on when people would be there.

We used to go in the beginning of September. We would arrive that Wed after Labor day and it was dead. The cast members all said that everyone that was there for the holiday weekend checked out the day before we got there. So we did this for years. They still kept everything open late but there were no crowds at all. Most things were walk on and the longest a ride ever got was 20-25 minutes. We miss the good old days. :(
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
You're not going to be able to visit a place that has over 50 million visitors a year (at least half of the annual visitors to Florida) without some planning.


It has ALWAYS required "some" amount of planning to visit WDW. Familiarizing yourself with the park layouts, understanding about what to expect for food, making a few key touchstone dining reservations, etc.

It was already well-established how exceptional WDW is in this regard for a long time - but now, there are more restaurants just at WDW that require booking six-months-out than there are in the entire rest of the United States combined. Disney fans have long ago normalized this sort of insanity, as it's been increasing in degree - tell most people who have not been or haven't been in a long time that they need to schedule every non-fast-food meal six-months-out (and now even some of them!) and they will look at you like you have three purple heads speaking Swahili. And scheduling a fastpass months out for a specific time? Nonsensical to those not majorly desensitized.

What we are talking about is how this has grown so considerably, particularly over the past five years. Gone are the days when you could get in pretty much most anywhere besides Cindy's if you stopped by a kiosk early in the day - you may have gotten a weird time but you could still get a time to stop in and eat. FP+ is the height of ridiculousness - I mean, even just based on the weather. It's a whole lot more complicated now to say, "uh, it's raining like crap today, let's go to Epcot instead of AK".

And this isn't just due to "demand" - it's a very conscious and calculated effort by Disney to maximize things for their direct financial and operational benefit, which is all well and good except for the fact it has all tied into a measurably reduced guest experience and comparatively astronomical cost rise, which is why they get called out on it.

I don't know how long you have been visiting WDW - but there really was a day - and not so very long ago - where you could do a reasonable amount of research, make a rough plan, and not feel like you were about to enter a militarized operation. Sure, there has always been that segment who have been "theme park commandos", and the more research and (flexible) planning you did, generally the *more* full of an experience you could have.

There has been a marked shift to that type of thinking being the norm, not just an option; not just available to guests with the inclination, but being downright required by Disney if you want to eat anything other than double-priced increasingly dismal fast food (who's "value" is about a quarter of what it is priced), or if you want to get a few fastpasses for a couple of key attractions.

We joke about needing to reserve bathrooms in advance - but at this point, can anyone honestly say they would be surprised to wake up tomorrow and read about a new add-on ticket entitlement you can attach to your Magic Band that gets you access to an exclusive set of posh "executive" style bathrooms at each park?


TL;DR? It was one thing when you had to keep updated on official Disney schedules to plan your trip effectively, making a few key reservations for things like Cindys or a Pontoon boat a few months out - it has become an entirely different beast now, sold under the guise of convenience, to a level that was only demanded by the tiniest portion of guests (i.e. the cult of the "Disney Mom's").
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom