Express Transportation starting Dec 7th

[MaximumEd]

I don't disagree that you couldn't show up with no plan and still have fun. Of course you could. However, when you have a family making a once every few years, or a once in a lifetime trip, to a place soooo dang expensive, you do need to do a fair amount to make sure you get those moments together that you feel you've paid dearly for. I hate 180 day ADRs and 60 day FP selections, but I get it. We come 2 or 3 times per year and still do a good bit of planning.

 

[Kman101]

And attendance was a lot lower back then.

Yeah but my points still stand. You can score many day of FP's and many same day ADRs. I don't like the line may be 60 minutes for something that should likely be 30-45 minutes but not having a FP doesn't mean the ride isn't an option. I understand wanting to maximize time but you may not have always been able to do everything "back then" either. If you really really really want to do something, wait in line.

But people clearly have their feelings on this and it ends up being the same back and forth. I truly don't believe you HAVE to plan your days as much as some like to insist you do. That's really all I'm saying, but everyone's mileage and needs vary, I get that. It has nothing to do with me personally and being able to go more or how I tour. Seeing FP and ADR availability tells me this.

 

[Kman101]

I don't disagree that you couldn't show up with no plan and still have fun. Of course you could. However, when you have a family making a once every few years, or a once in a lifetime trip, to a place soooo dang expensive, you do need to do a fair amount to make sure you get those moments together that you feel you've paid dearly for. I hate 180 day ADRs and 60 day FP selections, but I get it. We come 2 or 3 times per year and still do a good bit of planning.

But what if FP and ADRs didn't exist? I get it too, wanting to maximize time and value but I truly don't think it needs to be so planned out. Wouldn't you be less stressed without thinking you had to make those selections so far out? Just because they're there they don't need to be used. (EDIT: But I do get why you'd want to and sometimes do NEED to)

 

[MaximumEd]

The one big problem is if you like and want to eat at CRT or BOG, you gotta play the 180 game, I'd assume. Y'all ever see those day of? Honestly curious.

 

[MaximumEd]

But what if FP and ADRs didn't exist? I get it too, wanting to maximize time and value but I truly don't think it needs to be so planned out. Wouldn't you be less stressed without thinking you had to make those selections so far out? Just because they're there they don't need to be used.

Heck, that would be great. The problem is that everyone else is still doing it, sooooo where would that leave the guy who says, heck with it, we aren't planning?

 

[Kman101]

Heck, that would be great. The problem is that everyone else is still doing it, sooooo where would that leave the guy who says, heck with it, we aren't planning?

I get it, more so with the ADRs.

 

[MaximumEd]

Oh, and to be honest, under the current rules I'm less stressed knowing I have a reservation exactly where I want to eat, but I would love to not have to play by those rules. Abolish the 180 ADR!

 

[LAKid53]

Yeah but my points still stand. You can score many day of FP's and many same day ADRs. I don't like the line may be 60 minutes for something that should likely be 30-45 minutes but not having a FP doesn't mean the ride isn't an option. I understand wanting to maximize time but you may not have always been able to do everything "back then" either. If you really really really want to do something, wait in line.

But people clearly have their feelings on this and it ends up being the same back and forth. I truly don't believe you HAVE to plan your days as much as some like to insist you do. That's really all I'm saying, but everyone's mileage and needs vary, I get that. It has nothing to do with me personally and being able to go more or how I tour. Seeing FP and ADR availability tells me this.

I've made FP selections and ADRs for the day laying in bed in my resort room. But then most of my trips are solo for runDisney races, so I can be more flexible. And when I've gotten up at 2:30 am 3 days in a row and have run 22.4 miles over those same 3 days, an afternoon FP is preferable. But not everyone travels like I do and stays in a 1 bedroom DVC villa so they can cook (careful what I eat before races so I don't have tummy problems on the course). As @MaximumEd pointed out, some are traveling with kids and need to consider them when planning, especially meal times.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Oh, and to be honest, under the current rules I'm less stressed knowing I have a reservation exactly where I want to eat, but I would love to not have to play by those rules. Abolish the 180 ADR!

... and wait three hours outside BoG to get in.

 

[LAKid53]

Oh, and to be honest, under the current rules I'm less stressed knowing I have a reservation exactly where I want to eat, but I would love to not have to play by those rules. Abolish the 180 ADR!

I'm in agreement with that. Do 30 day ADRs at the max. If P&R need to have 180 day ADRs so they can plan menus, purchase adequate supplies and have sufficient staff, then the managers over that part of P&R need a refresher course in Hospitality school....

 

[Kman101]

Oh, and to be honest, under the current rules I'm less stressed knowing I have a reservation exactly where I want to eat, but I would love to not have to play by those rules. Abolish the 180 ADR!

I agree. Personally I like booking FP on my phone but I don't like how far out you can do it. I don't miss running to each machine for a paper ticket at all.

 

[LAKid53]

... and wait three hours outside BoG to get in.

I'm not waiting 3 hours for a table, anywhere. I stood in line for lunch at BoG a month or so after it opened (before the special reservation system, FP and ADR), but only for about 40 minutes. And the line was moving pretty quickly.

I waited in line about 80 minutes for Nav'i, but that was more for the kids since they'd not been able to attend the AP preview. I'm not going to wait more than 45-50 minutes for a ride.

 

[LAKid53]

I agree. Personally I like booking FP on my phone but I don't like how far out you can do it. I don't miss running to each machine for a paper ticket at all.

That used to be part of the fun, especially in DAK. One member of the party goes to stand in line in Kilimanjaro, while the other dashes over to Everest to get fastpasses. However, my traveling companion reminded me frequently that she was on vacation and didn't like getting up by 7am so we could be at the park shortly after opening....and she wanted to be back at the resort no later than 10pm or so. So FP+ suits our style of visiting better - no morning FP+ before 11am. And I still have to drag her out of bed by 8:30...

 

[MaximumEd]

I agree. Personally I like booking FP on my phone but I don't like how far out you can do it. I don't miss running to each machine for a paper ticket at all.

We went to DLR last October. I really liked the paper system. I had a very long gap in my WDW visits and never got to experience the old system there.

 

[jaklgreen]

True, but you might be waiting in line for an hour or so and eat at one of the less popular restaurants, unless you want to wait an hour for a table.

So if they eliminated the fast pass and everyone just stood in line for the ride that they wanted, the lines would still be long. Maybe not as long as with FP but you still would have the same amount of people trying to get on a set amount of rides. At least with the 3 FPs you know that you will be able to get those 3 rides in in a decent amount of time.

 

[WDWTrojan]

So if they eliminated the fast pass and everyone just stood in line for the ride that they wanted, the lines would still be long. Maybe not as long as with FP but you still would have the same amount of people trying to get on a set amount of rides. At least with the 3 FPs you know that you will be able to get those 3 rides in in a decent amount of time.

Not even close. Rides that were previously walk-ons went to 20-30 minute waits when FP was added. On average, FP adds about 30 minutes on wait times, as the riders are 80% FP 20% standby. Additionally you have the issue of all of the people holding Fastpasses who then get into another queue. Disney originally expected these people to be shopping or dining, not doubling up on attractions. It's a good idea during peak times for peak attractions but has been taken to the extreme and now people have come to expect it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Not even close. Rides that were previously walk-ons went to 20-30 minute waits when FP was added. On average, FP adds about 30 minutes on wait times, as the riders are 80% FP 20% standby. Additionally you have the issue of all of the people holding Fastpasses who then get into another queue. Disney originally expected these people to be shopping or dining, not doubling up on attractions. It's a good idea during peak times for peak attractions but has been taken to the extreme and now people have come to expect it.

If you're measuring wait time, you need to calculate in all the people who used FP and only had a 1-10 minute wait for those rides which are over an hour wait for stand-by. Calculate their wait time with stand-by's wait time and average it out.

Or look at it this way... all those people who used FP and got onto the ride before you... if they didn't have FP, they would have gotten to the stand-by line before you and made your wait just as long.

Or, look at it this way... all those people who used FP... where exactly are they if there is no FP? Do the thousands and thousands of them all line up for the Tiki Room and thus make Space Mountain a walk-on for you?

 

[pax_65]

I agree there are a lot of factors to consider. I think what frustrates me is how poorly the standby lines function with FP+ as it currently stands. I don't fully understand the dynamic. I'm guessing they are giving out more FPs now than in the past? For popular attractions, the standby line is at an hour shortly after opening. That didn't usually happen with the paper FPs, even on busier days (the lines would grow as the day wore on, but not so early in the morning). In fact, it feels like the standby lines are longer now than they've ever been since I started going to WDW in the early 90s - before FP existed... lower attendance yes but before Animal Kingdom opened.

I don't like the planning but I do it (since I dislike lines even more). So I do my 3 FP+ attractions and then try to figure out what I'm going to do next that doesn't require a 45-minute+ wait. As a result I don't feel like I get the same value from my pass.

I thought the whole purpose of FP+ is so people didn't have to spend as much time in line.

 

[flynnibus]

EDIT: Just checked dining for a party of 5 for dinner time and 47 restaurants popped up. Plenty of choices.

It's the low season now. And try actually filtering WHERE you are and a reasonable time. Free slots at 930pm in Epcot don't help you at MK at 6pm when you are hungry

 

[flynnibus]

But what if FP and ADRs didn't exist?

It was called same day reservations. Worldkey