Express Transportation starting Dec 7th

[Minthorne]

I'd assume they would be dropping off where they pick up.

 

[JohnD]

I'd assume they would be dropping off where they pick up.

Putting security to the side (I've already argued that point), if they're dropped off at the backstage pickup point of a park, how do they make sure guests have the proper media to enter the park? For example, what if a guest has a ticket for MK only? Are they really going to check MBs at MK pickup for guests' media before guests board a bus? What about when guests arrive at the next park. They're already backstage of a park they're not supposed to enter. No, I would rather think guests are dropped off at the main bus entrance then the empty bus travels backstage for the next pickup.

 

[flynnibus]

@CaptainAmerica and I are making the point (well, Captain more so than me) that the recent discussion about security is moot in that only pickup is backstage. It uses whatever routes to get you to the next park. My contention is that drop off has to be at the main bus stop of the next park to ensure guests go back through security. The whole debate about keeping the bus secure the entire route is pointless.

To do so would seriously cut down on the 'value' the service gives.. it then becomes just a take away one walking route to the bus depot by moving a bus pickup closer.... for the promise of what should be faster transfers.

But if you look at the Guest Services info posted earlier.. it says "By traveling between backstage location, Guests can spend even more time experiencing the magic inside our theme parks"

That means pickup and dropoff.

 

[flynnibus]

Putting security to the side (I've already argued that point), if they're dropped off at the backstage pickup point of a park, how do they make sure guests have the proper media to enter the park?

Simple.. hand-held scanners checking that you bought the service. You can simply limit who can buy the service by only selling it to someone who has park hopping to start with. No ticket.. no boarding. Problem solved.

Just like the airlines.. you check privileges before you board to avoid the stranded customer issue.

 

[danlb_2000]

Why do you assume that the Driver/Maintenance staff can be trusted, It would be easy to sneak weapons onto a bus with the assistance of CM's and without a security checkpoint in to the park itself.

That's the problem with anything that leaves a security perimeter, Once it leaves it cannot be 'trusted' again until it is searched/cleared by security personnel.

If we are talking about CMs/contractors not being trusted then these buses should be the least of our worries.

 

[danlb_2000]

Putting security to the side (I've already argued that point), if they're dropped off at the backstage pickup point of a park, how do they make sure guests have the proper media to enter the park? For example, what if a guest has a ticket for MK only? Are they really going to check MBs at MK pickup for guests' media before guests board a bus? What about when guests arrive at the next park. They're already backstage of a park they're not supposed to enter. No, I would rather think guests are dropped off at the main bus entrance then the empty bus travels backstage for the next pickup.

They would have to do a check at pickup to be sure you have paid for this service, otherwise anyone could walk up and use the bus.

 

[jt04]

Perhaps they will use double-deckers for this. Upstairs for those who want a backstage view. Downstairs with no windows to maintain the immersion.

 

[V_L_Raptor]

What the actual is going on? Will there soon be a $15/day surcharge for clean toilets? The rest of us rabble gets outhouses?

No mention of options for AP holders.

It's possible you misunderstand the situation. Outhouses are the mid-tier option. Everyone else gets to share the remaining hub foliage.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well there was a reason companies like Disney STOOD OUT FROM THE CROWD. If you just do what everyone else does... how do you become a Disney?

That's easy... just be a thing that was started and owned by a guy named Disney. If you owned it it would be called Flynn World. Then when you die... someone you never heard of will be in charge doing whatever their thing is and people will be asking... How do you become a Flynn.

 

[imthewalrus79]

If you are being picked up and drop off backstage there really shouldn't be a reason to do another security screening. Even if they do another screening it could still be faster then going through the main entrance security.

But like I said, they currently do it for backstage tours. Heck, the Backstage Magic tour meets at the front of Epcot after you go through security. The first stop is backstage at Epcot and they do another bag check before you get off the bus. Also, yeah, it would be quicker to go through that security checkpoint than the regular one. But much like I'm guessing the buses and drivers used for this are just going to be pulled off the regular bus line, causing all of their customers who either won't or can't afford to pay the extra for this special service to wait even longer, I'm guessing the security staff that will be needed for these bag checks at these stops will be pulled off the regular lines, meaning not only will that customer who didn't pay extra not only will be waiting longer for a bus, but will also be waiting longer to get through bag check.

What annoys me most about this is that this is the complete opposite of what Walt's vision for his parks was. He wanted everyone who visited his park to get the same VIP treatment, not to divide his guests into different classes based on how much they were willing to pay for this perk and that perk. And on top of that, do you see Disneyland doing this? No. They keep their guests coming back by not just building new lands, but constantly changing their entertainment and adding enhancements to their existing rides and shows. That's how you do it properly, not nickel and diming your customers.

 

[WDWTrojan]

What annoys me most about this is that this is the complete opposite of what Walt's vision for his parks was. He wanted everyone who visited his park to get the same VIP treatment, not to divide his guests into different classes based on how much they were willing to pay for this perk and that perk. And on top of that, do you see Disneyland doing this? No. They keep their guests coming back by not just building new lands, but constantly changing their entertainment and adding enhancements to their existing rides and shows. That's how you do it properly, not nickel and diming your customers.

Tell that to the VIP tour department (not the Backstage Magic tour), which is becoming an increasingly lucrative department, charging guests upwards of $500/hour for their services. These guests, hundreds per day, get the same backstage-to-backstage transportation that you're complaining about and has been going on for years.

As far as security concerns, this new offering has absolutely no bearing on security. Once guests are screened at the first park of entry, they are then shuttled from secure location to secure location. No different than taking a shuttle bus on the airside of an airport to change terminals. You don't have to go back through TSA.

Disneyland is an entirely different animal. Their base of annual pass holders necessitates regular entertainment changes and updates. The smallest new show or holiday overlay can generate millions in increased revenue. The same change at WDW offers nothing but a blip. It's this reason WDW has long gone after the "year long celebrations," as they know guests plan their trips months, if not a year or more, in advance.

 

[ford91exploder]

Please stop this.. you're arguing about adding weaknesses that already exist in the first place... aka just stirring up FUD. This is stupid to be debating levels of security when the place has very little boundary security in the first place.

As an IT security guy myself (And I used to do it for Dis Corp) I'm lost as to why this would be a security risk. It's for park hopping, you go from one secured location to another, through a secured transport. It's likened to using SSL in the IT world. If it made random stops in the middle sure, it's risky. If you think security wont be monitoring the buses closely and wont be going through guard monitored posts to reach the secured area, well then maybe?

If you don't understand how you can do a MITM attack on SSL you don't belong in IT security, I remember the time a IT management team said 'we are secure because we only allow SSH' I demonstrated SSH Tunneling where I was able to browse the intranet using a web browser simply by using a few options on my SSH client. Could that have been prevented yes it could have but it would have required someone who knew what they were doing to configure the ssh daemon not some drone with a Security+ Cert typing 'permit ip any inside tcp 22' on the firewall.

Likewise the Bus fueling area is not 'secure' and you see the buses stopped in unsecure parking lots, Lots of opportunities for a insider to sneak weapons onto a bus.

If you are going to do security do security not security theater. And the majority of security breaches are committed by 'trusted' insiders not random russian/chinese black hats

 

[imthewalrus79]

Tell that to the VIP tour department (not the Backstage Magic tour), which is becoming an increasingly lucrative department, charging guests upwards of $500/hour for their services. These guests, hundreds per day, get the same backstage-to-backstage transportation that you're complaining about and has been going on for years.

As far as security concerns, this new offering has absolutely no bearing on security. Once guests are screened at the first park of entry, they are then shuttled from secure location to secure location. No different than taking a shuttle bus on the airside of an airport to change terminals. You don't have to go back through TSA.

Disneyland is an entirely different animal. Their base of annual pass holders necessitates regular entertainment changes and updates. The smallest new show or holiday overlay can generate millions in increased revenue. The same change at WDW offers nothing but a blip. It's this reason WDW has long gone after the "year long celebrations," as they know guests plan their trips months, if not a year or more, in advance.

Why wouldn't it involve security? With regular transportation service, be it bus, monorail or boat, when you leave one park and go into another, you have to go through security. If they do it when you're on a Disney tour bus with a Disney tour guide for a backstage tour where you don't even leave the property of the first theme park and are subjected to a bag check, why wouldn't they do it on this new service. Disney's security is not the TSA. Disney does things their own way. And I'm not arguing it either. It's definitely not perfect; but I like that they're doing things to make sure that their guests are safe.

And not to derail the thread too much here, but are Disneyland and Disney World that much different? Yeah, with all of the annual passholders at Disneyland, they change entertainment out a lot more often than Disney World does. But if Disney World announced that they're upgrading some of their classic rides, they were introducing a new parade, or even the definitive opening date for Rivers of Light, don't you think that would get people deciding to book a vacation to see these new offerings? I'm sure it's happening because of Pandora and will for Star Wars Land and Toy Story Land. But it doesn't always have to be a whole new land or ride, not that those hurt either. Yeah, they'll have to put money out to do this stuff; but isn't that what a good business does: takes some calculated risks that they hope will return their investment by drawing in the customers.

 

[ciscobee]

Beginning Dec 7th, Park hopper tickets can add-on Express Transportation to take them via bus park to park using backstage locations. It will be $15 for the day or if multi-day ticket $24, per person. Runs 10am to park close.

Rental car is still the better option ... you can even use Magical Express to get your bags back and forth ... but having a car makes things so easy for park and resort hopping. Plus you can quickly shoot over to CVS (or the HESS) and buy a case of water, snacks, and such for cheap!

 

[Creathir]

If you don't understand how you can do a MITM attack on SSL you don't belong in IT security, I remember the time a IT management team said 'we are secure because we only allow SSH' I demonstrated SSH Tunneling where I was able to browse the intranet using a web browser simply by using a few options on my SSH client. Could that have been prevented yes it could have but it would have required someone who knew what they were doing to configure the ssh daemon not some drone with a Security+ Cert typing 'permit ip any inside tcp 22' on the firewall.

Likewise the Bus fueling area is not 'secure' and you see the buses stopped in unsecure parking lots, Lots of opportunities for a insider to sneak weapons onto a bus.

If you are going to do security do security not security theater. And the majority of security breaches are committed by 'trusted' insiders not random russian/chinese black hats

How on earth does the weapon get from beneath the exterior of a bus into the hands of a guest with no one noticing?

Pretty sure the driver and/or station attendants would notice someone poking around the wheel well...

And if the driver notices someone doing something odd: "Sorry folks, looks like we'll be dropping off at the front gate this trip. Sorry for any inconvenience."

 

[jakeman]

How on earth does the weapon get from beneath the exterior of a bus into the hands of a guest with no one noticing?

Pretty sure the driver and/or station attendants would notice someone poking around the wheel well...

And if the driver notices someone doing something odd: "Sorry folks, looks like we'll be dropping off at the front gate this trip. Sorry for any inconvenience."

 

[GhostHost1000]

Perhaps they will use double-deckers for this. Upstairs for those who want a backstage view. Downstairs with no windows to maintain the immersion.

Then they could upcharge for windows...perfect!

 

[jt04]

Then they could upcharge for windows...perfect!

Apps on your smart phone for a more immersive journey. Incl. with your ticket. Win.

 

[JediMasterMatt]

I hate to say it... if the pickup/dropoff timetable is quick enough, I may abuse this system for my end of January trip to make life easier for photography purposes for getting from an 8:00PM Wishes to a 9:00PM Illuminations. It would be worth $15 a day for me if it cuts off time and more importantly in EPCOT the distance in walking.

I've done the hike many, many times in the past and it's always a hectic rush. This may solve a huge part of this problem for me.

I hate myself now for admitting this about this latest cash grab.

 

[MacRtst]

Funny, I just remembered having this "forum chat" before then I found this...
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/if-disney-world-had-taxi-cabs.185785/#post-2268323