News Expose reveals WDC control in online fan community

[Kman101]

Very good point about the original content. While based on a powerhouse IP, Batuu and Black Spire Outpost are very original.

If one thing struck me as odd - while I understand why they did it, since we’re just supposed to be walking around a random planet and all - would be the lack of background music. It’s a staple of both Star Wars and Disney Parks, and I would’ve loved to hear some John Williams as I was walking around.

The reason that they didn't is because if you were living in Batuu, if this were a real planet, you'd not be walking around with a background theme playing

They want you immersed in the experience of the land. It's not meant to be a typical theme park land. And I think that sadly gets lost on folks. And I don't think it works. Guests want background music. But I appreciate what they were trying to do. You can hear creatures and ships zooming over.

There's just probably lots of reasons a land like this wasn't going to necessarily be a 'hit' for Disneyland. It's far more suited for DHS really. The overpriced food and drinks, etc.

When Disney tries to do unique and different things, it gets lost on guests and that's a shame. They're sort of darned if they do and darned if they don't. And sometimes they do it to themselves, lol.

And if this is set in 'the real world', then Han and Luke are 'dead' and not able to be here. Maybe they could do holograms? lol! I don't really need any of the characters. Give me background music, stormtroopers galore, droids, better castmembers allowed to really be in character (not just look bored as they hang around hoping someone orders a Ronto wrap), etc. They overpromised on the feel of the land and vastly underdelivered on that point. For once I agree they overhyped.

 

[disneyflush]

That's what Micechat (I believe it was them but I could be wrong) claimed (and yes, I believe it; I overhear crazy things from tourists anytime I'm in the parks and I hear lots of castmember stories. I mean, folks look for Potter in Hollywood Studios .... so yes, it is believable they can't find the land and don't open a park map to figure it out)

I don't quite agree but it is plausible. I buy it more that APs and cast that were blocked out are a lot bigger of a portion of the crowd than folks realize. And that seems to be true now that they're unblocked.

I agree somewhat with the premise that DL went overboard on blocking out APs and cast members which led to a smaller initial attendance than anticipated. That has merit and makes sense. I also believe the opening in DHS is going to still be pretty bonkers attendance-wise as its just a different animal.

 

[Kevin_W]

- lots of mention of popcorn
- TP stands for theme park (who knew?)
- Accusations and apologies
- Being born in or around 1974 is now classed as old?!?
- Lots of people stayed up late to read the thread

I was born in 1974. The way my knees feel many days - yes, being born in 1974 makes you old.

 

[Kman101]

I agree somewhat with the premise that DL went overboard on blocking out APs and cast members which led to a smaller initial attendance than anticipated. That has merit and makes sense. I also believe the opening in DHS is going to still be pretty bonkers attendance-wise as its just a different animal.

Oh it very much will be different. Unless DHS suddenly implements boarding groups on Day 1. I don't think we've heard that though?

Disneyland is just a different animal. I always thought it should have opened first in DHS, but I get it. Disneyland is Walt's park and Bob Iger wanted this major expansion to open first in the "home" park.

I think reservation only was a mistake and should have been previews for passholders. They turned off guests who may have shown up. Why bother going if you can't get into the land? They simply did too much of a good job. Blocked out castmembers and Passholders aren't going to buy a day ticket to get into the park when they can't get into the land.

WDW is the tourists destination. Disneyland is a majority of passholders and castmembers. I think folks forget how much castmembers make up the attendance. I didn't see anyone really talking about DCA being busier because cast and passholders were blocked out of Disneyland but not DCA. They just did *too good* of a job keeping crowds away. I get why they did it and it worked, but to their detriment, I guess.

 

[tissandtully]

Oh it very much will be different. Unless DHS suddenly implements boarding groups on Day 1. I don't think we've heard that though?

Disneyland is just a different animal. I always thought it should have opened first in DHS, but I get it. Disneyland is Walt's park and Bob Iger wanted this major expansion to open first in the "home" park.

I think reservation only was a mistake and should have been previews for passholders. They turned off guests who may have shown up. Why bother going if you can't get into the land?

Am I the only one hoping for boarding groups?

 

[LuvWDW2]

Am I the only one hoping for boarding groups?

Nope! I’m going next weekend and really want them. Anything to avoid a 6 hour wait in FL sun/humidity.

 

[SirWillow]

So a non-zero number of people visiting Disneyland at this time aren't able to visit GE because they can't find it in the park due to inefficient signage.

Having worked in the parks as a cast member, that's likely going to be a larger number than you might think. I've seen people standing in town square unable to find the exit, got chewed out by an old lady at Studios who wanted to ride the monorail to Animal Kingdom and was insistent that she rode it into Studios that morning, watched a guy walk around Space Ship Earth at Epcot several times and finally asked where the rest of the park was because he couldn't find it and lots of other instances of guests being utterly clueless.

There's a good reason that cast members joke that the finger scanners suck out the brains of the guests...

 

[marni1971]

I thought most people take everything on the internet with a grain of salt, but again even the stuff @marni1971 doesn't help me pay bills..

I wish it did.

 

[networkpro]

This is funny as I don't believe that folks are that gullible. Trust but verify.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I've known about Disney monitoring social media/groups/forums for a long time. The only surprise to me was that they could possibly be using it to manipulate public opinion and, at worst, affect career trajectories (I hope that part isn't true, but the cynic in me says it more than likely is because we all know how cut-throat things can be in the corporate world). With her background in politics, the long game doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for Mucha (or Iger, for that matter).

Something we all need to remember here - when information is passed through a person (which it always is), it is also filtered through that person's opinions and biases. It's unavoidable. It is impossible for a person to be 100% objective about anything - especially things they care about. So, the only big shocker here is that there may have been an actual corporate agenda behind information leaks with very specific intent. The public opinion/career trajectory thing is the part that bothers me the most because it feeds my inner cynic...which I try to keep locked in the closet in the back of my brain.

I really don't care much who is who outside of the possibility of Al Lutz's name being used without his knowledge. If he knew, good for him...I hope he received ample compensation. If he didn't, that's pretty awful, and those responsible/who knew about it will have to live with their choices.

In regards to @WDW1974...while I've only been here for a couple of years, he seemed to me to be a knowledgeable, albeit curmudgeonly, source of information. I've been around lots of his type in my life, so I tended to shrug off most of what he said and just hang on to the juicy bits that revolved around Disney information. When I first arrived here, I did go and read one of the lengthy Spirit threads, and the (relatively) few times I did actually see him post, the flurry of activity was fun.

As for @TP2000, I hope he doesn't feel the need to stop posting. I don't care whether he's Troy or not...he seems like a pretty level-headed guy who enjoys interacting with other Disney fans...which is exactly what drew me to becoming active on these boards to begin with.

Lastly, the drama between users/sites and behind the scenes is nothing new to me. As I've stated before, I run a Disney group, and have seen some really awful, despicable, and cruel behavior and been the target of some of it myself - it's not something I would wish on anyone. I now keep to a very small circle of close friends I trust implicitly and have met in person (at WDW, naturally), but I still enjoy interacting with other Disney fans, and worked hard to not let those events stifle that ability to enjoy other people.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that regardless of what goes on behind the scenes, we should keep in mind that we should take anything we read online with a grain of salt, but more importantly that kindness should be king.

 

[Touchdown]

I think the failure was that GE was supposed to be so amazing a draw that tourists would pay the new highly inflated prices and flock to Anaheim in numbers so large it would overwhelm the original Magic Kingdom that they would be facing capacity closures all summer. That’s why all the “freeloaders” (APs) we’re kicked out.

Not only did that not happen, but attendance was down this summer.

 

[hopemax]

Edited to add: The other part of me thinks that the article is actually fully correct. TP lied already about his name being "Theme Parks". So was the lie to protect his identity (understandable, but odd, as the Snyders outed him already) or was it to try to damage control?

I posted my online Disney history in the thread on the DL board, but since I was searching around in the Usenet bowels of the Internet yesterday, and I see today people are still questioning the origin of TP2000, I dug around ADD.

Here's TP2000's YAGE post from ADD, note the date 10/12/1999 and note the signoff at end

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.disney.parks/2KliGMnat_0/hLUBHLLhUlMJ

-TP2000, who just realized it's probably a good time to go since my
screen name will be out of date in a few months anyway! It seemed like a
good idea back in '97. ;-)

Now, it's possible he is really involved in a deep Disney-state conspiracy which involved setting up online profiles in the 90's. This TP2000 took over the identity of an unsuspecting former ADD poster, or it really is "Theme Parks." If it was simply his initials, why would it go out of date?

Also, found another post, an ADD census https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.disney.disneyland/u2L9tZ7dgAw/Ez-kP5KbAlYJ

I've posted to a.d.d. as "TP2000" since April of 1998. I posted under
another handle beginning in May of 1997. And honest to God(ess), I can't
remember what my previous name was!
-TP2000

 

[disneyflush]

This, along with @TP2000 's incredulous excitement that Al Lutz had written another article, while repeatedly mentioning that he thought Al was dead... there's just no way I can buy what @TP2000 is selling right now. Something smells.

I agree but I also don't think we will ever find out. Something that would look so negative towards Disney isn't going to be allowed to persist without a gigantic PR fight. A fight that is not going to be waged on a WDW forum between anonymous posters for very long. How quickly did matt get a message from someone way higher up than himself to knock it off trying to lend credence to any of this? Why wouldn't Mmmmhmmm just write out the accusations he has that will have Iger voted out with 'no confidence' by the end of the year since he has a captive audience here? We live in a world where truth doesn't really matter anymore, only volume and persistence. Even if the article was 100% true or 50% true, all it would take is an army of social media influencers (who have their livelihoods/families on the line) to state it was 100% false and it would go away. Is going away. The responses here have moved to, "Does this really affect our lives, why keep caring." already. People will generally always take a comforting lie over a hard truth. Especially if truth is subjective (or fake).

 

[Touchdown]

Check out the DL thread, Andysol has some compelling evidence TP is in fact Troy Porter.

 

[andysol]

I posted my online Disney history in the thread on the DL board, but since I was searching around in the Usenet bowels of the Internet yesterday, and I see today people are still questioning the origin of TP2000, I dug around ADD.

Here's TP2000's YAGE post from ADD, note the date 10/12/1999 and note the signoff at end

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.arts.disney.parks/2KliGMnat_0/hLUBHLLhUlMJ



Now, it's possible he is really involved in a deep Disney-state conspiracy which involved setting up online profiles in the 90's. This TP2000 took over the identity of an unsuspecting former ADD poster, or it really is "Theme Parks."

Also, found another post, an ADD census https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.disney.disneyland/u2L9tZ7dgAw/Ez-kP5KbAlYJ

You're wrong. And you've been lied to. For 20 years. I don't know what else to say.

 

[tirian]

I've known about Disney monitoring social media/groups/forums for a long time. The only surprise to me was that they could possibly be using it to manipulate public opinion and, at worst, affect career trajectories (I hope that part isn't true, but the cynic in me says it more than likely is because we all know how cut-throat things can be in the corporate world). With her background in politics, the long game doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for Mucha (or Iger, for that matter).

Something we all need to remember here - when information is passed through a person (which it always is), it is also filtered through that person's opinions and biases. It's unavoidable. It is impossible for a person to be 100% objective about anything - especially things they care about. So, the only big shocker here is that there may have been an actual corporate agenda behind information leaks with very specific intent. The public opinion/career trajectory thing is the part that bothers me the most because it feeds my inner cynic...which I try to keep locked in the closet in the back of my brain.

I really don't care much who is who outside of the possibility of Al Lutz's name being used without his knowledge. If he knew, good for him...I hope he received ample compensation. If he didn't, that's pretty awful, and those responsible/who knew about it will have to live with their choices.

In regards to @WDW1974...while I've only been here for a couple of years, he seemed to me to be a knowledgeable, albeit curmudgeonly, source of information. I've been around lots of his type in my life, so I tended to shrug off most of what he said and just hang on to the juicy bits that revolved around Disney information. When I first arrived here, I did go and read one of the lengthy Spirit threads, and the (relatively) few times I did actually see him post, the flurry of activity was fun.

As for @TP2000, I hope he doesn't feel the need to stop posting. I don't care whether he's Troy or not...he seems like a pretty level-headed guy who enjoys interacting with other Disney fans...which is exactly what drew me to becoming active on these boards to begin with.

Lastly, the drama between users/sites and behind the scenes is nothing new to me. As I've stated before, I run a Disney group, and have seen some really awful, despicable, and cruel behavior and been the target some of it myself - it's not something I would wish on anyone. I now keep to a very small circle of close friends I trust implicitly and have met in person (at WDW, naturally), but I still enjoy interacting with other Disney fans, and worked hard to not let those events stifle that ability to enjoy other people.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that regardless of what goes on behind the scenes, we should keep in mind that we should take anything we read online with a grain of salt, but more importantly that kindness should be king.

Spirit was 100% reliable with insider info, but just like anyone else who’s deeply connected to a particular industry, his opinions were baked in cynicism. This is true of teachers, lawyers, nurses, doctors, etc.

In this case, the entertainment company happened to be Disney, which has used its 90s-era marketing machine to claw its way into people’s hearts (including mine!), and elicits strong — and often ridiculous — defenses from its fans.

But we have to remember this is not Uncle Walt’s Mouse House. It’s a massive corporate conglomerate that does not care about anything except exploiting its IP to make more money. Iger’s reluctance to put Vault Disney content on Disney+ is a good example of the disregard for the company’s own legacy. Most of the execs are there to pad résumés and move to another place, not because they have a particular love for Walt’s company.

That’s what makes this all so messy. The most outspoken critics are too cynical because of personal connections, and the fanboy defenders are too emotional because of Magic Pixie-Dust Mickey Purple Cupcakes ***gasp***.

Anyway, IMHO the best thing is to be a fan who appreciates the great stuff and also acknowledges the WDC is a large organization made of imperfect human beings who will make poor choices. To flip that around, I may roll my eyes at Stitch’s Great Escape and the Hunt for Jack Sparrow Ride, yet I still get the same sense of — yes, Magic — when I walk under that train station.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

From an ops perspective, you have to remember that you can't analyze GE in a vacuum. There were probably assumptions made about its impact that effected decisions and expenditures, both short and long term, across DLR. Long-term they may still be proven to be correct. I think they will be. But for a company that is focused on quarterly results, perhaps to a fault, those short-term impacts are very meaningful.

 

[gustaftp]

I used to be a technical admin over at MouseInfo when they had a thriving board. In the staff forum we often posited that TP2000 was Al Lutz, but also discussed how there were just enough slight differences between the two that we were not entirely certain.

 

[marni1971]

You do realize that Marni's posts basically mirror what "Al Lutz" (in quotation on purpose now) used to do? I mean, just like Al, Marni drops insider information AND and cleverly blends these drops with the advocacy of a very particular point of view from within the company. That's exactly what Al appears to have done: he broadcast the views of particular subset while presenting "himself" as merely an unbiased middleman trying to advocate for what's best for the fans..... AND it appears to have worked brilliantly for those that enabled him.

NOT trying to start a feud with Marni as I enjoy his drops as much as anyone else here, and I don't know (and will never meet) Marni. Just trying to point out how similar the situation is....

I’d like to think my point of view is my own. Coz it is! If anything I’ve consciously been trying to curtail my personal thoughts and criticisms recently. My depression was getting even me down.

I’m certainly not trying to get across anyone else’s point of view. Nor would I try. I’d like to think anyone with half a grey cell can offer their own opinion or see though an ulterior motive. What I may do is try and explain my point of view, but would never assume anyone should blindly believe me. Just like now. You may or you may not. I can’t change that. Nor should it worry me. I’ve bluntly said elsewhere previously I don’t care if I’m believed. I don’t do it to be placed on a pedestal.

But nor do I do it for a third party. I do it since deep down I’m still a fan.

 

[tirian]

From an ops perspective, you have to remember that you can't analyze GE in a vacuum. There were probably assumptions made about its impact that effected decisions and expenditures, both short and long term, across DLR. Long-term they may still be proven to be correct. I think they will be. But for a company that is focused on quarterly results, perhaps to a fault, those short-term impacts are very meaningful.

We’ve talked about it in the Studios and DL threads, and every fan forum is talking about it, and that makes me suspect Snyder dropped his article to point out that while we’re all blaming Chapek, nobody in the top ranks is blameless for the current state of the company.

I want Disney to be extremely successful! I worked for them for years and I’m a stockholder. I also miss the days when they shot for long-term plans instead of buying up a bunch of other companies and focusing on short-term profits.

Speaking objectively, the SWGE opening wasn’t as successful as Disney hoped, but it also wasn’t a failure. But when you’re a company that only releases tentpole films making billions or hundreds of millions several times a year, you start foolishly expecting everything to be an outrageous success; and when it isn’t, your knee-jerk reaction is to call it a failure, which is exactly what people within the company were lamenting.

“The sky is falling, the sky(walker) is falling.” No, you just blocked too many APs and made some awkward creative decisions that led to poor word of mouth among fans.