News Evermore Orlando Resort - new billion-dollar, 10,000-room resort project is coming right next to Walt Disney World

J

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Disstevefan1 said:
I wasn't thinking budget.

I just think there is a price point that will both make money for the resort and entice folks to stay there, that's all.

I still think the Star cruiser is too expensive and I think there is a price point that can make enough money and fill the cabins.
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I can understand the thoughts on the Star Cruiser. Though I think marketing likely said that the first year you are going to have all the Star War fanatics that are dying to try this experience, so that you can price it at a huge premium, and then adjust after to a price point/offer point that makes more general market sense.

But with Star Cruiser, you have, besides price, a REASON people would choose to stay there vs another property. You get the immersive Star Wars experience that no other property offers, so you can charge arguably a premium for that content/experience.

I just keep wondering what is it about Evermore that makes me choose it over other existing properties? Price point can obviously be a major player in that, but a brand new property that has both land Aquisition costs, construction costs, and start up operational costs is going to have a huge debt facility that is going to have to be serviced now that TCO's have been granted and the place is open for business.

Maybe there is a market for suite style larger family stays that this property can fill that niche. Certainly the prices for 2-3-4+ bedroom suites appear to be better than on property equivalents. But is there really enough demand for that at the price points they are offering? I mean if its costs that are driving your decision, then you can get 2 rooms at just off site Marriot properties for cheaper than the solo suite room at evermore. If its convivence and your talking about families, the benefits of not having to pack up small kids and drive to/from parks every day wins out over the Evermore. And it is non-kid families looking for a more resort style stay, (which I will admit looking at the property it seems like a nice place for me and wife to hang out at for 3-4 days, and maybe only do 1-2 days at parks) why do you need the suite style living? I know people differ but when wife and I used to go on vacation before the kids arrived, the last thing we wanted to do was to be cooking for ourselves, so the kitchen feature would really be a waste. Similarly you don't need multiple bedrooms as a couple.

The best market I can see for the property is for either super large single family (4+kids) or close family groups (brother/sister and their kids) traveling together to save money. But even there, all of the great amenities that are baked into the price of the resort are somewhat going to be wasted if your at the park all day. And from the properties perspective, your not selling lunches, dinners, alcohol at your restaurants/pools, if your guests are at parks all day.

It looks really nice, so it's not like I am bagging on the property itself. I just don't see (other than maybe wanting to try the "new" thing) what makes it the best choice over already existing options. Put it somewhere on the Jersey Shore close to Atlantic City, and I am in. Hell maybe someplace in NC/SC I can see working great also.
 
F

Fido Chuckwagon

Well-Known Member
JMcMahonEsq said:
I can understand the thoughts on the Star Cruiser. Though I think marketing likely said that the first year you are going to have all the Star War fanatics that are dying to try this experience, so that you can price it at a huge premium, and then adjust after to a price point/offer point that makes more general market sense.

But with Star Cruiser, you have, besides price, a REASON people would choose to stay there vs another property. You get the immersive Star Wars experience that no other property offers, so you can charge arguably a premium for that content/experience.

I just keep wondering what is it about Evermore that makes me choose it over other existing properties? Price point can obviously be a major player in that, but a brand new property that has both land Aquisition costs, construction costs, and start up operational costs is going to have a huge debt facility that is going to have to be serviced now that TCO's have been granted and the place is open for business.

Maybe there is a market for suite style larger family stays that this property can fill that niche. Certainly the prices for 2-3-4+ bedroom suites appear to be better than on property equivalents. But is there really enough demand for that at the price points they are offering? I mean if its costs that are driving your decision, then you can get 2 rooms at just off site Marriot properties for cheaper than the solo suite room at evermore. If its convivence and your talking about families, the benefits of not having to pack up small kids and drive to/from parks every day wins out over the Evermore. And it is non-kid families looking for a more resort style stay, (which I will admit looking at the property it seems like a nice place for me and wife to hang out at for 3-4 days, and maybe only do 1-2 days at parks) why do you need the suite style living? I know people differ but when wife and I used to go on vacation before the kids arrived, the last thing we wanted to do was to be cooking for ourselves, so the kitchen feature would really be a waste. Similarly you don't need multiple bedrooms as a couple.

The best market I can see for the property is for either super large single family (4+kids) or close family groups (brother/sister and their kids) traveling together to save money. But even there, all of the great amenities that are baked into the price of the resort are somewhat going to be wasted if your at the park all day. And from the properties perspective, your not selling lunches, dinners, alcohol at your restaurants/pools, if your guests are at parks all day.

It looks really nice, so it's not like I am bagging on the property itself. I just don't see (other than maybe wanting to try the "new" thing) what makes it the best choice over already existing options. Put it somewhere on the Jersey Shore close to Atlantic City, and I am in. Hell maybe someplace in NC/SC I can see working great also.
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I don’t understand why people keep talking about this property like it is “luxury-priced.” Yes the “Conrad” portion of it is, but not the rest of it. A 1 week stay in a 2 bedroom here is priced under what it would cost to book a 2 bedroom at Sheraton Vistana through Marriott, or what it would cost to book a 2 bedroom at Club Wyndham Bonnet Creek through extraholidays. They appear to be competitively priced for a brand new resort that includes large two-bedroom accommodations with kitchens for families. I think they’re going to do just fine.
 
Andrew C

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Fido Chuckwagon said:
I don’t understand why people keep talking about this property like it is “luxury-priced.” Yes the “Conrad” portion of it is, but not the rest of it. A 1 week stay in a 2 bedroom here is priced under what it would cost to book a 2 bedroom at Sheraton Vistana through Marriott, or what it would cost to book a 2 bedroom at Club Wyndham Bonnet Creek through extraholidays. They appear to be competitively priced for a brand new resort that includes large two-bedroom accommodations with kitchens for families. I think they’re going to do just fine.
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Good points!
 
J

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Fido Chuckwagon said:
I don’t understand why people keep talking about this property like it is “luxury-priced.” Yes the “Conrad” portion of it is, but not the rest of it. A 1 week stay in a 2 bedroom here is priced under what it would cost to book a 2 bedroom at Sheraton Vistana through Marriott, or what it would cost to book a 2 bedroom at Club Wyndham Bonnet Creek through extraholidays. They appear to be competitively priced for a brand new resort that includes large two-bedroom accommodations with kitchens for families. I think they’re going to do just fine.
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I guess it depends on what you mean by luxury priced.

My discussions about the property is that with the amenities that they have, and the prices that they are offering, the data point that people are going to be using for selecting the property isn't price. Looking back on the first time our family went to Disney, staying off property at the Continental Motel on international drive, I would most certainly have described this property (and the other two you mentioned) as Luxury Resorts.

With all the hotel rooms available in the market, I just wonder are they trying to fill a market that they think is expanding in Orlando, such that area needs MORE hotel rooms of this type? Or do they think they have a competitive advantage that they can pull existing market share from currently available properties in Orlando.

If its the former, this looks like a nice property and as you said, will likely do fine. However if the increased demand isn't there, I am having trouble seeing what market share they are looking to take away from existing room supply, and why they fill that target space better.
 
drnilescrane

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
JMcMahonEsq said:
With all the hotel rooms available in the market, I just wonder are they trying to fill a market that they think is expanding in Orlando, such that area needs MORE hotel rooms of this type? Or do they think they have a competitive advantage that they can pull existing market share from currently available properties in Orlando.
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Most of the development in this space has been in the upper upscale and entry level luxury space. There definitely was a dearth of high quality upscale meeting hotels (the JW Marriott at Grande Lakes being an exception). Especially with Disney completely abandoning that market.

Which makes sense, Anaheim had the same problem. A lot of rooms but not a lot of great ones. It'll push some older properties further down the rung, and a lot of really terrible properties will close and be redeveloped.

I'm curious to see how the Hyatt Regency on the southern part of the old Grand Cypress responds. They've got a comfortable niche being the "Disney" Hyatt but they could absolutely upgrade to a higher brand if they put some money into the property.
 
J

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
drnilescrane said:
Most of the development in this space has been in the upper upscale and entry level luxury space. There definitely was a dearth of high quality upscale meeting hotels (the JW Marriott at Grande Lakes being an exception). Especially with Disney completely abandoning that market.

Which makes sense, Anaheim had the same problem. A lot of rooms but not a lot of great ones. It'll push some older properties further down the rung, and a lot of really terrible properties will close and be redeveloped.

I'm curious to see how the Hyatt Regency on the southern part of the old Grand Cypress responds. They've got a comfortable niche being the "Disney" Hyatt but they could absolutely upgrade to a higher brand if they put some money into the property.
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Interesting. I hadn't experienced that lack of space. I thought the other JW property at Bonnett Creek, along with some of the other properties there and Swan Reserve filled that niche. The JW Bonnet Creek was a really nice spot for convention/meeting last December.

The other question I would have is that even with covid restrictions relaxing, I haven't seen a projected increase in corporate conferences/meetings. Does the market really need the additional capacity.
 
drnilescrane

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
JMcMahonEsq said:
Interesting. I hadn't experienced that lack of space. I thought the other JW property at Bonnett Creek, along with some of the other properties there and Swan Reserve filled that niche. The JW Bonnet Creek was a really nice spot for convention/meeting last December.
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Right, this project was started about the same time those properties were developed it's just taken longer to get off the ground. Which makes sense, these things happen in waves.

Being a Hilton hotel in a town full of Marriotts will probably help it stand out a bit. The lagoon is a distinct amenity. Clearly they felt there was room for one more despite the terrible location.

The market is shifting a bit too. Travelers are more willing to pay for luxury properties post pandemic since the middle of the market decided to cut all service to the bones. Look at the rates the Four Seasons can charge.
 
drnilescrane

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
Andrew C said:
??
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All of Hilton's Orlando properties are pretty terrible. All of the Bonvoy properties - of which there are more, and are more distinct - are newer or more recently renovated.

A new Conrad will absolutely be able to capture a lot of the Hilton loyal upscale traffic
 
drnilescrane

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
Andrew C said:
The Signia by Hilton and Waldorf Astoria hotels at Bonnet Creek are great properties. And the Hilton Orlando at the convention center is pretty nice as well.
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Eh, in my opinion the Waldorf badly needs a room renovation and Bull & Bear is a ripoff. I think there's room for a Conrad.
 
Horizons '83

Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Andrew C said:
The Signia by Hilton and Waldorf Astoria hotels at Bonnet Creek are great properties. And the Hilton Orlando at the convention center is pretty nice as well.
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I agree with the Waldorf, but the Signia was the worst stay we've had in Orlando (this was last year). It really used to be a great value but they failed so much on our last trip, they gave us a $250 credit and said that is all they will be able to do, so basically go away.
The DS locations of Hilton are pretty terrible as well. Marriott has some great properties (Swan/Dolphin/Reserve/World Center).
 
Horizons '83

Horizons '83

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Andrew C said:
I don’t find them terrible at all. Older, yes. But very convenient and affordable.
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To each their own đź‘Ť
Might need to try the Buena Vista Palace again. Last time we stayed there it wasn't the greatest and the lazy river wasn't open yet (probably 10 years ago by now) but every place deserves a second chance right?
 
Andrew C

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
TJ Vazquez said:
To each their own đź‘Ť
Might need to try the Buena Vista Palace again. Last time we stayed there it wasn't the greatest and the lazy river wasn't open yet (probably 10 years ago by now) but every place deserves a second chance right?
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I prefer that one over the Hilton Lake Buena Vista TBH. 10 years ago it was not yet a Hilton. I think it changed around 2015 or so and did at least some renovations after that....I heard not so great things about it before that time but never stayed there until 2017ish....

All those Disney Springs hotels are old and get beat up though. Renovation cycles must be a real pain in the rear.
 

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