Ever read the reviews from non-Disney fanatics on TripAdvisor?

[LoriMistress]

Wow, this thread got a bit crazy. I can understand both sides of the debate. In one aspect, it's weird that you have to plan, research, and book ADRs for a WDW vacation. The idea of just planning ahead to hit several amusement parks does seem silly.

But at the same time, it's silly to NOT plan your vacation (any vacation, really). It doesn't have to be the Danny Tanner Clipboard of Fun, but there has to be some structure. I plan ahead so I out think the typical tourist who doesn't know "the system". I plan ahead so I know I'll be able to relax and have a nice sit down meal, instead of going to TS after TS being turned away because they're booked. I like the idea of knowing the FP system so our family can ride the attraction later. I plan ahead so my family can have a stress-free vacation, of hitting the rides/attractions/shows without any fuss or dealing with the heat, crowds, etc.

DLR is a bit different, but you STILL have to call 45-30 days ahead to make your ADRs (and there's no exception for peak season). I booked our party of thirteen to the Blue Bayou for the weekend before Thanksgiving. We made sure that we had dining available to us so we would be guarantee to have lunch at the Blue Bayou. We did see people be turned away because they didn't have ADRs.

Yes, it's a pain in the butt to wake up early in the morning (4am, for myself), to call 180 days before your arrival to make ADRs for WDW, but for me, it's worth it. I would rather have twenty minutes of my time of losing some sleep for the day of booking ADRs, then to deal with being in the parks miserable because all the TS restaurants are booked up. I love the dining experience of the parks because it's one of the few times were you can avoid the large crowds, sit down in nice A/C, wind down after running around in the parks all day, and enjoy a nice meal with your family.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I do what I do and like what I like. I really dont think explaining my self to anyone is warranted or required.

After all it would probably be wasted on the prolls anyway.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

In my opinion, I think the bottom was only about a year, two at the most, ago. So I'm not at all stating that we are back to it's highs, just that it is getting better.

Maybe the current perception of downswing is for folks using the DDP? I know after looking at the way we usually eat at WDW and the current plan's offerings we elected to go without it for our upcoming 10 day trip.

The DDP is not something we regularly use (but have, so I feel I can compare the two) so we tend not to pay attention to the extras, like dessert, that we normally would get with DDP that put the "value" there.

For a non-DDPer who isn't looking to maximize the value of the plan, there appears to be more options available. I think the best example is the Chicken Wrap at the old fry cart in Frontierland and the added BBQ sandwhich at Peco's. My wife found the chicken wrap was great, but it is not something that would be worth getting on DDP (that I know of).

Perhaps what we are seeing is pressure on DDP to expand the profit margin rather than a direct correlation to quality and variety of food?

I'm enjoying this little tagent, myself!

Yout could have a point that being a regular user of the DDP could contribute to the impression of dining going downhill. I could see how not being a DDP user could make much of it go "unseen". Little cuts here and there, portion size, quality of ingredients (fries and chicken strips come to mind), and especially dessert choices become awfully noticeable from trip to trip.

We're like you... Most of the time we aren't on the DDP. When it first came out, it was a value. It has become harder and harder to "work" the DDP to make sure you're saving money, therefore not worth it anymore to us.

That being said, our last trip and our next trip are both on the free DDP. When it's free, it's awfully hard to pass up. We actually had planned to take a trip to SoCal and DL rather than WDW this year, but when free dining came out for WDW, it made the deal too attractive. So at least in my case, it did exactly what it was designed to do... It got a family of 5 to visit WDW for 10 days that hadn't planned on it otherwise. Sure, we were still planning a few days at DL on a trip to SoCal, but a 10 day stay on property is definitely more lucrative for them.

But...

With the FURTHER dining plan changes that are rumored for 2011, along with what I perceive as continuing lowering of the quality of food and lack of options as I mentioned before... I don't think even free dining would sway me again.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Wow, this thread got a bit crazy. I can understand both sides of the debate. In one aspect, it's weird that you have to plan, research, and book ADRs for a WDW vacation. The idea of just planning ahead to hit several amusement parks doe seem silly.

But at the same time, it's silly to NOT plan your vacation (any vacation, really). It doesn't have to be the Danny Tanner Clipboard of Fun, but there has to be some structure. I plan ahead so I out think typical tourists who doesn't know the system. I plan ahead so I know I'll be able to relax and have a nice sit down meal, instead of going to TS after TS being turned away because they're booked. I like the idea of knowing the FP system so our family can ride the attraction later. I plan ahead so my family can have a stress-free vacation, of hitting the rides/attractions/shows without any fuss or dealing with the heat, crowds, etc.

DLR is a bit different, but you STILL have to call 45-30 days ahead to make your ADRs (and there's no exception for peak season). I booked our party of thirteen to the Blue Bayou for the weekend before Thanksgiving. We made sure that we had dining available to us so we would be guarantee to have lunch at the Blue Bayou. We did see people be turned away because they didn't have ADRs.

Yes, it's a pain in the butt to wake up early in the morning (4am, for myself), to call 180 days before your arrival to make ADRs for WDW, but for me, it's worth it. I would rather have twenty minutes of my time of losing some sleep for the day of booking ADRs, then to deal with being in the parks miserable because all the TS restaurants are booked up. I love the dining experience of the parks because it's one of the few times were you can avoid the large crowds, sit down in nice A/C, wind down after running around in the parks all day, and enjoy a nice meal with your family.

The paragraph I bolded above is what is just stupid to have to do. I mean, I get it... And I don't blame you for doing it. But this isn't something that had to be done 5 years ago. Commando style planning is almost required to have the vacation you want now. It didn't used to be that way. Thank the DDP.

Think about how nuts we would all think you were 5 years ago if you came on here and posted that you woke up at 4AM to make dinner reservations for 6 months away.

Now it's commonplace. Something's wrong with that. There should be a middle ground.

I don't even remember what the point of this thread was anymore. :hammer::lol:

 

[Future Guy]

. . .Commando style planning is almost required to have the vacation you want now. It didn't used to be that way. Thank the DDP.

Think about how nuts we would all think you were 5 years ago if you came on here and posted that you woke up at 4AM to make dinner reservations for 6 months away.

Now it's commonplace. Something's wrong with that. There should be a middle ground.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[zurgandfriend]

I do what I do and like what I like. I really dont think explaining my self to anyone is warranted or required.

After all it would probably be wasted on the prolls anyway.

That’s the only way to live your life. If you enjoy something do it, if you don’t, than do not do it. I think we both spend too many years in uniform having people telling what to do to live any other way.

I have had this discussion many times with co-workers who think I’m crazy for going to Disney yet think nothing of being a season ticket holder to one of the local sports teams. Any of which cost more than a WDW vacation does.
A co-worker recently returned from WDW some of his complaints;
The price of a single day’s admission to the MK. - I asked him how much a round of golf cost at his local country club. The round of golf was more expensive.
The price of a beer at Epcot. – I asked him how much a beer cost at Fenway Park? (or Paaak in the local vernacular) A beer cost more at Fenway than at Epcot.
It was too crowded at Disney. - I asked what’s the crowd is like when you got to a Patriots game? About the same but at Disney there aren’t many drunks and rowdies.

 

[Master Yoda]

The paragraph I bolded above is what is just stupid to have to do. I mean, I get it... And I don't blame you for doing it. But this isn't something that had to be done 5 years ago. Commando style planning is almost required to have the vacation you want now. It didn't used to be that way. Thank the DDP.

Think about how nuts we would all think you were 5 years ago if you came on here and posted that you woke up at 4AM to make dinner reservations for 6 months away.

Now it's commonplace. Something's wrong with that. There should be a middle ground.

I don't even remember what the point of this thread was anymore. :hammer::lol:

Like most things in this world there is not one single cause for big or even small problems. The DDP alone is not the only cause for the change in the amount of planning that goes into a WDW vacation. Park attendance has drastically increased over the last decade and the number of attractions, restaurants, etc have not kept pace by a long shot. If the DDP did not exist I think you still would be seeing the same problems. The fix.....expand the parks and the dining options.

 

[wm49rs]

The paragraph I bolded above is what is just stupid to have to do. I mean, I get it... And I don't blame you for doing it. But this isn't something that had to be done 5 years ago. Commando style planning is almost required to have the vacation you want now. It didn't used to be that way. Thank the DDP.

Think about how nuts we would all think you were 5 years ago if you came on here and posted that you woke up at 4AM to make dinner reservations for 6 months away.

Now it's commonplace. Something's wrong with that. There should be a middle ground.

I don't even remember what the point of this thread was anymore. :hammer::lol:

Well, let's remember the 4AM wakeup call was because she's on the West Coast.....

Secondly, there's no set rule that someone has to make their reservations 180 days out. Make them, don't make them. But when someone doesn't get into the restaurant they want.....

All of my reservations I made about two months ago. To be honest, I had almost forgotten the trip was soming up so quickly. I made one call, and placed the remainder of my reservations online. I coordinated the ADRs with whatever park we were visiting that day. Total time for everything was less than two hours....

For a vacation that's costing us X thousands of dollars, I'm pretty sure that's an equitable use of my time. It was neither excessive nor overly time consuming. It was, as you said, the middle ground. And it was also far less time that I would spend planning if I were going somewhere such as London, Copenhagen, or even NYC.

The facilities offered to make ADRs aren't designed to be onerous or a burden, just the opposite. Ultimately it's up to that person to decide how far out they want to make them. Either way, they're a resource for someone to make their trip less stressful and more enjoyable.

 

[jakeman]

Yout could have a point that being a regular user of the DDP could contribute to the impression of dining going downhill. I could see how not being a DDP user could make much of it go "unseen". Little cuts here and there, portion size, quality of ingredients (fries and chicken strips come to mind), and especially dessert choices become awfully noticeable from trip to trip.

I understand the point you are making, but I don't consider it "unseen". It's more of a statement of the quality. We know that the desserts at QSRs aren't worth it, so we don't buy them.

I think what DDP does is it takes away that accountability for it to be a high quality, especially at the QSRs and especially at the places that are highly trafficked (Ohana is the first that comes to mind). If those places are going to be running at maximum capacity at all time and there is a set price and fries are included, there is no gauge of people saying "the fries aren't good, I won't buy them". They're there, and they are basically free, so they just get thrown away.

We find that places that still have to "compete" for business (Sanaa, Trail's End, The Wave for TS, Columbia Harbor House, Resort QS) offer a higher quality than the typical fan favorites.

We're like you... Most of the time we aren't on the DDP. When it first came out, it was a value. It has become harder and harder to "work" the DDP to make sure you're saving money, therefore not worth it anymore to us.

That being said, our last trip and our next trip are both on the free DDP. When it's free, it's awfully hard to pass up. We actually had planned to take a trip to SoCal and DL rather than WDW this year, but when free dining came out for WDW, it made the deal too attractive. So at least in my case, it did exactly what it was designed to do... It got a family of 5 to visit WDW for 10 days that hadn't planned on it otherwise. Sure, we were still planning a few days at DL on a trip to SoCal, but a 10 day stay on property is definitely more lucrative for them.

But...

With the FURTHER dining plan changes that are rumored for 2011, along with what I perceive as continuing lowering of the quality of food and lack of options as I mentioned before... I don't think even free dining would sway me again.

I agree. I like to be able to pick and choose what I eat and where and speak with my pocketbook that way. DDP doesn't allow me to do that.

 

[Tigger#1]

I find all the talk about trip planning amusing since our family doesn't even know what park we are going to visit the next day. We just fly by the seat of our pants and be spontaneous and have fun. There is way to much planning in real life I am here to have fun.
And if we miss a show or a ride there is allways tomorrow or the next trip. As for CS dining we have allways found it very adequate even sometimes good but then again that goes along with no schedule to keep. We eat when we get hungry and when we are tired of playing for the day we head back to FW to relax.
I had something about people who don't like Disney explained to me years ago by an old friend who visited Disney Land the year it opened and also Disney World every year forover 30 years.
They have lost thier inner child. There is so much to Disney than a Theme Park or the rides, there is Disney Magic and if someone can't see and feel it I feel very sorry for that person because they have lost a very important part of life.

 

[LoriMistress]

The paragraph I bolded above is what is just stupid to have to do. I mean, I get it... And I don't blame you for doing it. But this isn't something that had to be done 5 years ago. Commando style planning is almost required to have the vacation you want now. It didn't used to be that way. Thank the DDP.

Think about how nuts we would all think you were 5 years ago if you came on here and posted that you woke up at 4AM to make dinner reservations for 6 months away.

Now it's commonplace. Something's wrong with that. There should be a middle ground.

I don't even remember what the point of this thread was anymore. :hammer::lol:

I can understand how frustrating it is for some people who didn't have to to call six months in advance 5, 10, etc. years ago--but times has changed now. Back in '07 I had to call six months ago to make ADRs, and I was happy that I did that. At numerous accounts, there were many people that were turned away because the restaurant was completely booked. Maybe if there were enough guests that would write to complain to Disney and their DDP, then they might change their system.

 

[RedBaron]

The last time I was at WDW was 3 years ago now, and we were lucky enough to have the free dining and made our reservations for dinner a few months in advance. We thought we made good, smart and well planned out choices, but ended up screwing ourselves in the end. Some days we were starving to death waiting for dinner time to finally roll around, other times we had to miss out doing something because "oh, we need to stop having fun now so we can make it over to the restaurant because it is almost time to eat". Don't get me wrong, nothing tastes better than free food, but I do feel that it affected our vacation since we felt that our whole day revolved around eating. We are going again at the end of July and do not have any dining plan. I have already faced the facts that we will probably not be able to have 1 sit down meal during our stay. Part of me is really bummed about that since I have always liked dinning in Disney, but another part of me is happy. This time we can go to what ever park we want to on what ever day without being tied down to a park or restaurant.

 

[EaglesfanNJ]

Wow, this thread got a bit crazy. I can understand both sides of the debate. In one aspect, it's weird that you have to plan, research, and book ADRs for a WDW vacation. The idea of just planning ahead to hit several amusement parks does seem silly.

Wow, things did get a little crazy. (Think Anchorman: Wow, that really escalated quickly).

We certainly got a lot of viewpoints on this topic didn't we? Just goes to show that no matter what Disney does, some will like it, and some will not. As Pumbas said earlier in this thread, if you like something you like it, and if not then you don't.

My only wish out of all of this is that a 1st timer reads his post on TripAdvisor, but does not let it affect his decision on whether or not to visit WDW. That was the saddest part about going through the 5 pages of reviews that i did. A newbie might read that and be discouraged from visiting, and that's a shame because WDW has a special place in our family. Had the OP taken the time to plan out ADR's, visit during a non-peak season, maybe his review would have been different. Right wrong or indifferent, the dining situation is what it is at Disney...when planned properly though you can "work the system' as some say and have a beautiful vacation

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Like most things in this world there is not one single cause for big or even small problems. The DDP alone is not the only cause for the change in the amount of planning that goes into a WDW vacation. Park attendance has drastically increased over the last decade and the number of attractions, restaurants, etc have not kept pace by a long shot. If the DDP did not exist I think you still would be seeing the same problems. The fix.....expand the parks and the dining options.

You're probably right that there are other contributing factors, but I think the DDP has GOT to be the largest contributor. How many people, because of the DDP, are now stopping to eat one TS meal a day no matter what, and planning for it way ahead of time because they have to fight for a table (essentially)? If you don't plan ahead, you risk losing money because you might not find a TS location to eat at that night. (yeah, I know you could ALWAYS find a TS to eat at, but not everyone does.)

I think it's the combination of thousands of people eating a TS meal each day that weren't before, plus the threat of losing money and the value of the plan that makes people do what they're doing now. I know it's my motivation. I booked a trip with Marie a couple weeks ago and the first thing I did was figure out the different hours of the parks each day, and when the fireworks and parades were, so I could make dinner rezzies. Basically, I knew I had to do it to beat out everyone else for the best spots. Kinda sucks.

 

[fbp]

If they think 5.75 is expensive for a beer try 9.00 for a miller light at Yankee STadium.

Or 11.00 for a Coors Light at Scotiabank Place in O-Town.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

The facilities offered to make ADRs aren't designed to be onerous or a burden, just the opposite. Ultimately it's up to that person to decide how far out they want to make them. Either way, they're a resource for someone to make their trip less stressful and more enjoyable.

I would agree... IF they would figure out a way to keep people from making more than one rezzie at the same time.

Right now, I DO consider it a burden. I'm not only literally competing with everyone else for the restaurants I'd like to eat at and at certain times... I'm also dealing with phantom rezzies that people have made and haven't canceled!

What percentage of people do that? 10%? 20%? Cut that out, along with the additional cuts in 2011 for the DDP, and I bet you start seeing some of the spontenaiety (sp?) return to TS restaurants.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

The last time I was at WDW was 3 years ago now, and we were lucky enough to have the free dining and made our reservations for dinner a few months in advance. We thought we made good, smart and well planned out choices, but ended up screwing ourselves in the end. Some days we were starving to death waiting for dinner time to finally roll around, other times we had to miss out doing something because "oh, we need to stop having fun now so we can make it over to the restaurant because it is almost time to eat". Don't get me wrong, nothing tastes better than free food, but I do feel that it affected our vacation since we felt that our whole day revolved around eating. We are going again at the end of July and do not have any dining plan. I have already faced the facts that we will probably not be able to have 1 sit down meal during our stay. Part of me is really bummed about that since I have always liked dinning in Disney, but another part of me is happy. This time we can go to what ever park we want to on what ever day without being tied down to a park or restaurant.

You give a perfect description of what I'm sure a LOT of people feel.

Now imagine you were new to WDW. Even if you made rezzies ahead of time, and felt like you did your homework:

How do you get from where you're at to the restaurant? What form of transportation? How long is going to take to get there?

Wait... I can't see Wishes or Spectromagic the only time they're showing it while I'm here because I have dinner reservations at another park?? I really tried to plan, but had no IDEA to think about fireworks and parade times!

Etc, etc, etc...

I can see people's frustrations... And what might make them take it out on TripAdvisor.

See how I tied it back into the thread topic for once?? :king::lol:

 

[wm49rs]

I would agree... IF they would figure out a way to keep people from making more than one rezzie at the same time.

Right now, I DO consider it a burden. I'm not only literally competing with everyone else for the restaurants I'd like to eat at and at certain times... I'm also dealing with phantom rezzies that people have made and haven't canceled!

What percentage of people do that? 10%? 20%? Cut that out, along with the additional cuts in 2011 for the DDP, and I bet you start seeing some of the spontenaiety (sp?) return to TS restaurants.

Wouldn't you deal with those same uncanceled reservations if you attempted to walk up to a TS restaurant at the park? Waiting because people can't take the time to be responsible kills off one's spotaneity as well....

But I do agree, perhaps the best way to fully ensure people meet their ADRs to to penalize them for failing to show. Unfortunately you can't charge them for the cost of a meal beforehand like you can at HDDR or the luau at the Poly. But a $25 fee would be curiously intriguing....

The DDP isn't going to cut participating restaurants any time soon. It may get more expensive, but it will still probably always be a cheaper avenue for those staying on the grounds. And the number of restaurants isn't going to decrease either, even if Le Cellier does go signature. You'll still have the new restaurant at MK as part of the FLE, as well as the two new restaurants at EP that will be TS at least part of the day.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

The DDP isn't going to cut participating restaurants any time soon. It may get more expensive, but it will still probably always be a cheaper avenue for those staying on the grounds. And the number of restaurants isn't going to decrease either, even if Le Cellier does go signature. You'll still have the new restaurant at MK as part of the FLE, as well as the two new restaurants at EP that will be TS at least part of the day.

The cuts for 2011 aren't less restaurants to choose from... They're cutting the dessert completely from the plan, and QSDP's won't have refillable mugs anymore. And I'm sure there won't be a price drop.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=4083072&postcount=1

What I'm getting at with that is that I think less and less people will find the value in the plan, meaning less and less people will buy it. I'm hoping that then people go back to what their eating habits were before the plan... Rather than a TS meal every day, no matter what.

That would cut down on the "book 6 months early" thing a bit I would imagine. And if they could figure out a way to stop multiple bookings too... That's when I really think walk-ups would be easier to get.

 

[wm49rs]

The cuts for 2011 aren't less restaurants to choose from... They're cutting the dessert completely from the plan, and QSDP's won't have refillable mugs anymore. And I'm sure there won't be a price drop.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=4083072&postcount=1

What I'm getting at with that is that I think less and less people will find the value in the plan, meaning less and less people will buy it. I'm hoping that then people go back to what their eating habits were before the plan... Rather than a TS meal every day, no matter what.

That would cut down on the "book 6 months early" thing a bit I would imagine. And if they could figure out a way to stop multiple bookings too... That's when I really think walk-ups would be easier to get.

They may; I don't know. Bt with WDW trying to pull more and more people into the parks with everything they have planned (especially the new value resort), the DDP for most is going to remain (I believe) a viable option. Maybe some will go with the QS version, but I don't think cutting desserts or refillable mugs is going to dissuade that many people from signing up, especially if they're on the grounds the entire time.

That being said, if thye could cut the window for an ADR from 15 to 10 minutes, maybe that would help those who are walk-ups.....