Epcot's "Problem" - Not Exactly

speck76

speck76

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by cloudboy
So if attendance is down in Epcot, where is it up? Or is it just a result of having another park open and more things in the other new parks, and people only have a set amount of time to spend visiting all 4 parks?
Click to expand...

This is why I think a 5th park is a long way off. WDW, as a whole, has greater attendance now than it did prior to DAK opening.

2003
MK 14,000,000
Epcot 8,600,000
MGM 7,800,000
DAK 7,300,000
Total 37,700,000

1995
MK 12,900,000
Epcot 10,700,000
MGM 9,500,000
Total 33,100,000

Now, if you average out the 1995 attendance, and add the 4th park, WDW should really be seeing attendance of 44 million per year. Although overall attendance is greater now, Epcot and MGM are not bringing in the guests like the used to.

It looks like when ppl visit WDW, they tend to hit the Magic Kingdom and 2 other parks, not all 4 parks. The ironic thing is that MK atten has gone up, while all of the other parks are in decline, yet the MK has not really added any major attractions, while both Epcot and MGM have added E-tickets within this time frame.
 
ZHoyt

ZHoyt

New Member
even though other parks have added e-tickets, can they really compare to MK in ammount of attractions? MK has way more attractions than any other park. I haven't taken time to really think it out, but off the top of my head thats how I see it. so maybe that is why MK attendance is continually up. Also, MK has more classic 'can't miss' attractions. Other parks have a few of these, but MK is chockfull of them.
 
Testtrack321

Testtrack321

Well-Known Member
I find it funny that even back in the day, Future World was never really about the future, but instead using the past to look into the future. While I loved that way, the problem is that you are stuck with that look for a long time, and just changing the ending.

I think the Discovery idea is great change for Future World, it's more appropreate and fits our mindset better. Another thing that seperates Future World and Tomorrowland is the toung-in-cheak nature of Tomorrowland. There is a backstory in Tomorrowland, Future World just seems like a giant worlds fair (gee, dosn't that sound familiar...). My suggestion would be to continue to add to the whole 'instatute' idea. It started with The Living Seas, then came Test Track, Imagination, and now Mission:Space. I think that if Wonders of Life could be changed to add that theme, along with The Land, and we are on the way to a better Future World.
 
B

Butnubb

New Member
Epcot's "Problem"

I feel that the Disney Corporation has the Epcot situation completely under controll. As others have previously mentioned, Epcot has refurbished several rides so far. Converting WoM to TT and horizons into MS was a smart move on their part because the new rides are bringing entirely new kinds of people to the parks, the thrill seekers.

Back to the topic of refurbishing the park. It is obviouse to me that the park is being modified and refurbished on o dayly basis. It started with the re-doing of Imagination, then came TT and MS. They are converting the park slowly for two basic reasons. They want to get feedback on whether the people like the new rides. If they refurbished the entire park at once it might not go over well with the guests. They wouldn't be able to find their way around the park and they wont be able to enjoy the previouse exibits or rides anymore. Disney also wants to keep the park in business. Once again, if they refurbish the whole park at once they have to close it down. If they left it open there would be no rides or attractions to see and the landscaping / sceenery would be unattractive. If you were visiting Future World, would you want to see piles of dirt and debris? is that what the future will be like? Disney wants to refurbish the park a little at a time so they can keep the park in ship shape and still have it be open. That means CASH FLOW, and to all you Disney stock holders out there this should be important to you!
 
speck76

speck76

Well-Known Member
Yeah, they are adding new attractions, and refurbing old ones. Unfortunatly, it is a slow process, and not everything that they have added has been gold (Imagination)

I am never against change, as long as it is an upgrade.

I think they could make some minor changes to signage and whatnot which would really help the "dated" image.
 
C

cloudboy

Well-Known Member
Yes, they are changing Future World, but I am not 100% sure it is truely effective. Those rides bring in more guests, but where are they coming from? They come from the other parks - particularly MGM. The thrill rides (used loosely) really appeal to a certain group. Who are already AT Disneyworld. What I think the really need to is attract a different group of people, THAT's how you increase attendance. So whatever it is, it has to appeal to someone that isn't really drawn to other parks.

I am a little leary of the Discoveryland concept, becasue I am worried that all you will end up with are a few Reader's Digest Condensed versions of a science museum and Aquarium. Which isn't really unique enough. What is so wrong with the World's Fair concept anyways? The later ones have been a bit of a letfdown, but really it's a little different and not just another amusement park.

But it's time they did something in the right direction.
 
speck76

speck76

Well-Known Member
I think you hit the nail on the head cloudboy.

If Epcot adds a bunch of E-ticket thrill rides, and MGM doesn't, Epcot will steal the thrill seeking guests from MGM, making WDW none for the better.

What I think needs to happen is that either each park needs to soar with its strengths (MGM needs to be a great movie studio themed park, with a full day's worth of movie themed rides and shows; DAK needs to be a great park, featuring a full-day's worth of animal exhibits, attractions, and shows;...) and be the best that they can be, without being redundant.

-or-

Each park needs to be well rounded, offering a full day's worth of thrilling rides (about an equal number), great shows, and facinating attractions.

Either way would probably work.
 
Dayma

Dayma

Well-Known Member
Epcot and MGM are not bringing in the guests like the used to.
Click to expand...

Nor is MK. 1995 was a good year economically so the attendance would be up.

There are a lot of variables that play into attendance. I would have to see all theme parks and trends to judge if its onlya disney thing or if all parks were having this rollercoaster of results.
 
C

cloudboy

Well-Known Member
Each park needs to focus on a strength and market. Magic Kingdom is the world of fantasy, the world of pretend. Themeing is a big thing here. It's biggest draw are kids, but as Walt said, there's a bit of a child in all of us. So it would really be the main park.

MGM is about more intense adventures, films and special effects and all that. Real world type stuff. I would concentrate the majority of thrill rides here. It atta=racts the teenagers and young adults - the action park.

Epcot should be about ideas and knowledge and thinking. It's main market should be adults. I am not even sure it should be the number 2 park, but I have a feeling it would end up being that anyway. I would try and kick up the content a notch - maybe some of the young kids won't get it, but I think they would be just as happy in MK. And that would bring in more adults, even older adults, who otherwise wouldn't even consider Disneyworld.

Animal Kingdom is all about exploring. Not just the animals - I don't think Disney is doing that good there anyways. I would put in more attractions in the different areas - maybe a dark ride or two, a walk-through attraction (look at Kali Rapids - it's essentially a great walkthrough with an OK raft ride for a post-show). I would love to see htme get more involved with restuarants and live entertainment. Not themed to Disney so much as to the continent. I think you could even keep it open at night.
 
M

MJL

New Member
There is ALWAYS a future to look forward to. The technology itself isnt really so important, but the its the INSPIRATION about the possible future that is exciting. Remember visiting future world in the mid-80s, and as a young teenager I was truly inspired to think of what life could look like in the future even knowing of the fairytale nature of some of it.

There is so much, even with the computers of today, that can be exceeded with a good and hopeful vision of the future. Every person in the world has a hope for a better tommorow, and what Disney needs to do is "get in touch" with peoples sensibilities and dreams - well within reach of creative people.

Just off the top of my head - living in space, time travel and/or tranportation dreams, homes of the future, future entertainment, the list is endless.

The failure is pretty fundamental - leadership. What makes a successful leader in ANY industry is being able to inspire people through a vision that the leader creates, a vision that people CONNECT with.

A previous poster mentioned good sources for leaders like this - industry. There are advances and crazy ideas being invented every day across the globe, Disney's leaders are not utilizing them. And watching these ideas on Discovery channel is not the same and living them at a theme park - seeing them, feeling them, smelling them, etc.

Disney has a huge number of people walking through its gates every year, I would think that companies would invest in Disney pavillions/whatever to spread their names. I just dont think that Disney leadership has a clue here, companies DO want to spend money to advertise themselves, why isnt it happenning?
 
M

Michael72688

New Member
Disney may never loose sight of that, but the public will. Thats why Disney has had to make changes with adding more thrills and attractions like that. I'm not saying they are going to be a thrill park but I think more and more thrills/coasters are going to be built
 
WhyteAL

WhyteAL

Active Member
Here are my two pennies...

First I agree with most of what is being discussed about Epcot. I do think though that everything we are discussing are contributing factors in Epcot's "unpopularity" (even thought I consider it my favorite). But I think the main factor in this equation is people not really intrested in learning. They equate learning with something hard, having to put to much effort to understand something not considered a vacation. Even though it's not really like that.

Like all these pavillions are seperate from each other the scenry is beautiful, but it's spaced out. We now it's due to every pavillion being themed differently and kind of touching on a scienctific topic. But people for the most part don't see it like that. And then there is a major division between futureworld and world showcase. The park in my opionion not for myself but to help boost attendence, should be more woven together. Like M:S and SE not the particular ride but the lessons TL and TLS more woven together like everything should be one central idea also convied and all the pavillions the supporting facts. Worldshowcase should have sections were these countries are showcasing not just their culture and traditions but their connections to Future World. (example China, Japan, USA, UK, Italy, Germany, should showcase their fondations and innovations for the future of their space missions. Then maybe maracco, and France on how they will be handling their joint communications because of their proximity and immigration issues.) Don't just make it like a boring musem display with little interactivity. Make it memorible take these concepts and sprinkle disney magic on it. Make Epcot a true level playing field. Run some sort of holographic neon LEDs cables out of UE and connect it to SE, M:S, TT like if was powering these pavillions. Take TLS and run a tunnel from the TLS to TL were at one point it seems like your in a reef under water and the deeper you go through solid "volcania" rock and end up in soil and see earth worms and other type of under the earth creatures and boom your in the food court at the land. Make world showcase a place were every country is a welcomed at no cost to that country were we come to share our ideas lay everything out on the table. Everyday come raise your flag this is the sanctuary of not your government but you the people of that country were you share the best your culture has to offer with that your history. Don't let goverments put their two cents it just hire a bunch of anthropologists who love this type of stuff. Epcot contact National Geographic and the Genograph project offer it at disney for like 89.00 instead of 99. The range of people taking the test will be perfect. Epoct has the potential to be so much more than what it is now which is why I think its lacking but because I don't like it but because it could be more.

OK sorry for the book report but I just wanted to say that. :lookaroun
 

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