Epcot's "Problem" - Not Exactly

[Tocpe]

Yep, it'd have to be mechanical so yea, it'd go on the technology side. lol.

I think you're right most people aren't as easily "wowed" as they used to be. So there needs to be some other method of getting the ideas across to the guest other than "here ya go, isn't this cool?" (the prefered method of presentation in Innoventions)

Why not have product feedback in Innoventions? Think of the diverse crowds the manufacturers would be getting for their products!

It's tricky, but I think story and characters can make an attraction go a long way towards making it work *cough*Figment**cough**Dreamfinder**

more on this idea later, it's getting late and I need to sleeeeeeep.:snore:

 

[colliera]

"Disneyland is often called a magic kingdom because it combines fantasy and history, adventure and learning, together with every variety of recreation and fun designed to appeal to everyone." - WED

I couldn't find the exact quote where Walt talked about the mix of entertainment and education but to paraphrase, ". . . entertainment first, education second." I think the quote above says it in its own way.

Tomorrowland had the same problem as Future World. It really wasn't possible to stay 25 years out into the future. Current solution to Tomorrowland was to do a retro Tomorrowland or the future as imagined in the past. Example: The Jules Verne treatment of Space Mt. in Disneyland Paris. I agree that Future World's problem is that it isn't just a big Tomorrowland. The Tomorrowland fix won't work.

In EPCOT Center's early days there was the distiction that adults liked it as a park but kids didn't. There was even a mandate that NO characters where to be found there. People demanded it, time passes, and now characters associated with World Showcase or Future World now seem natural, (Living Seas/Nemo, Pooh & Mary Poppins/United Kingdom, even the characters from Brother Bear/Canada).

"Disneyland is like a piece of clay: If there is something I don't like, I'm not stuck with it. I can reshape and revamp." - WDW

But how timely has this reshaping and revamping been at EPCOT? WOM changed because it was in the GM contract renewal. Even at that it was two years late in opening. Just now films are being changed out in World Showcase pavillions some 20 years after opening. The dependency on films to showcase the countries in World Showcase was suppose to allow for an easy and inexpensive redo and update of the message of the pavillion.

As pointed out, if you are building other theme parks on property and them park clones around the world there is a limit to the resources and talent you can expend. EPCOT's problem is staggering neglect.

So now is it EPCOT's turn? M:S, a $100 million attraction that is unique as an experience but still only comes up a "D" ride. Sorin' Over - a clone.

Maybe there is a plan. Maybe we'll hear about it tomorrow. Maybe the familiar song will be, "We don't comment on unannounced developements." Maybe they've got nothing.

So how is EPCOT to be fixed? The same way Disney movies are made successful or not. EPCOT needs a entertaining, unifying STORY to be told. If it educates then so much the better. But with the current additions, changes, and closings the story of Future World has become less clear. Disney's lack of solid stories has spread from the moving making division into the theme park division.

"'I honestly feel that the heart of our organization is our story department." - WDW

If Disney can get EPCOT's story back on track then maybe we have a chance for it to be ". . . a great, big, beautiful tomorrow!"

 

[Just A Big Kid]

Another couple things to think about, Disney keeps replacing quality rides with rides that require NO thought.. kinda backwards from what Epcot Center was supposed to be about...

Secondly, Epcot was supposed to be about a world united.... well, umm, I'm not even touching that one. Let's just say that's why we haven't seen any new countries in World Showcase.

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

HAS EPCOT GOT A PROBLEM ?

From a post by Steve which I read yesterday, EPCOT was the most visited Disney Park (after MK of course) last year - therefore it must be doing something right

 

[speck76]

Re: HAS EPCOT GOT A PROBLEM ?

Originally posted by CAPTAIN HOOK
From a post by Steve which I read yesterday, EPCOT was the most visited Disney Park (after MK of course) last year - therefore it must be doing something right

Epcot benifits a lot from the special events (Flower and Garden festival / Food and Wine festival / Candelight processional)

Considering these two programs (esp F&W) are major draws and last 30-45 days, they help increase the attendance. If it was not for these events, Epcot could be #4 (or at least #3)

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Re: Re: HAS EPCOT GOT A PROBLEM ?

Originally posted by speck76
Epcot benifits a lot from the special events (Flower and Garden festival / Food and Wine festival / Candelight processional)

Considering these two programs (esp F&W) are major draws and last 30-45 days, they help increase the attendance. If it was not for these events, Epcot could be #4 (or at least #3)

Still when you consider how many theme parks you have in the United States, thats a pretty mean feat... perhaps Epcot is doing just fine. We all complain about it, but we keep going back.

 

[speck76]

I don't think you can compare Orlando theme parks with those in other areas of the country.

SeaWorld in Orlando gets close to 4.5 million visitors per year, which puts them in the top 10. If this park was anywhere else, would it be top 10.

Cedar Point in Ohio gets around 3.5 million per year, yet they are only open for 115 days, so if their avg atten. is continued for an entire year, they would get over 11 million annual visitors, which would put them right behind the Magic Kingdom. (IOA is open 3 times as long as Cedar Point, but does not even double CP's atten.)

 

[Mateo1721]

I found this at about.com, last years attendance numbers:

#1 The Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 14 million, flat.
#2 Disneyland, Anaheim, Calif., 12.7 million, flat.
#3 Epcot at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 8.6 million, up 4 percent.
#4 Disney-MGM Studios at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 7.8 million, down 2 percent.
#5 Disney's Animal Kingdom at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 7.3 million, flat.
#6 Universal Studios at Universal Orlando, 6.8 million, flat.
#7 Islands of Adventure at Universal Orlando, 6 million, flat.
#8 Disney's California Adventures, Anaheim, Calif., 5.3 million, up 13 percent.
#9 SeaWorld Florida, Orlando, Fla., 5.2 million, up 4 percent.
#10 Universal Studios Hollywood, Universal City, Calif., 4.5 million, down 12 percent.-

 

[cloudboy]

There was even a mandate that NO characters where to be found there.

In the original concept of EPCOT (Walt's City of Tomorrow), there were not to be any characters, but as realized, there have always been characters there. They have always been on the part, however - they would be in futuristic clothes in Future World, or dressed according to the country in World Showcase.

I agree wholeheartedly that they have not been keeping up with things - the movies could easilly (and not necessarily that expensively) be updated. Even the little touches, for instance just adding little things such as the fiber optic pavers in the center of Innoventions.

You mentioned something about how Adults liked Epcot, and Kids like Magic Kingdom. There was a thread not too long ago where people were complaining that their friends or familly were always saying Disney is for kids. Maybe there are right - maybe Disney has refocused on this one market and is either forgetting or ignoring the rest.

I don't think it would take a ton to improve Epcot. For Future World I would stop trying to make giant rides, and focus on getting more content. Instead of one company sponsoring a pavilion, get a bunch of them together for something - for instance Imagination - why not get a lighting company to reopen part of upstairs and make a lighting special effects interactive area. Get a company like Bose to do a section on sound, and maybe a perfume or bath/body or yankee candle to do something on smells.

Have a pavillion sponsored by black and Decker that has a small dark ride (or even a walt through) on the history of mankind and tools, and then have a tool workshop where they can show off their latest tools. I just think it takes a little more imagination and willingness to try something different.

 

[speck76]

I like the idea of the history of tools...sponsored by the Home Depot.

 

[Tocpe]

Looks like we agree that Epcot is in need of some desperate TLC. It needs more attention than just ploping down new rides.

 

[BwanaBob]

Originally posted by speck76
I like the idea of the history of tools...sponsored by the Home Depot.

never happen!

 

[Laura]

Epcot should invent something so if you want to go from Spaceship Earth straight back to the American Pavillion you just have to step into the machine and you are magically transported. That would keep me coming back, seeing as the one thing I dislike most about Epcot is how much walking you have to do to cross the park! :lol:

I'm just kidding.

 

[speck76]

Few things throughout history have been more important to the human race than tools. Tools are what allowed us to start walking upright, while everyone else was still hunched over.

The two most important inventions in human history, the printing press and the microprocessor, were just the next set of tool that we invented.

Honestly, I would rather see something like this than Innoventions.

 

[speck76]

Originally posted by Mateo1721
I found this at about.com, last years attendance numbers:
#3 Epcot at Walt Disney World, Lake Buena Vista, Fla., 8.6 million, up 4 percent.

Look at that number compared to historical numbers:
2002
EPCOT 8,300,000 -8%

2001
EPCOT 9,000,000 -15%

2000
EPCOT 10,600,000 +5% (fueled my the Millenium celebration)

1999
EPCOT 10,100,000 -4.6% (Test Track opened (finally)

1998
EPCOT 10,596,750 -10%

1997
EPCOT 11,800,000 +5% (WDW 25th Anniversary MK up 26%)

1996
EPCOT 11,200,000


That clearly shows a downward trend. If you assume each guest spends $85 per addmission and food/souvies, the is a difference of almost a quarter of a billion dollars down in revenue each between 1997 and 2003...not good.

 

[Dayma]

Considering these two programs (esp F&W) are major draws and last 30-45 days, they help increase the attendance. If it was not for these events, Epcot could be #4 (or at least #3)

Do you have numbers to support this theory?

 

[speck76]

No numbers, but I have been to Epcot enough to know that the park is busier during the festivals than would be without them. Have you ever noticed that both major festivals occur during the slower months, May and October.

The weekends during food and wine feel almost as busy as the holiday weeks.

My point is this, if Epcot did away with these two festivals, attendance would go down.

 

[cloudboy]

seeing as the one thing I dislike most about Epcot is how much walking you have to do to cross the park!

I definitely think you are right about that point. Epcot does have a lot of walking, and it is all in the sun, too. I think a good elevated peoplemover would do wonders for people's impression of the park. particularly if it somehow went around the outside of futureworld, so that people didn't have such a tendency to walk right through it.

So if attendance is down in Epcot, where is it up? Or is it just a result of having another park open and more things in the other new parks, and people only have a set amount of time to spend visiting all 4 parks?

 

[cloudboy]

We've focused a lot on Future World - what about World Showcase?

I think that there are a couple of problmes there, too. Number one it hasn't really changed much over the years. Have they even added a single attraction there in the last 10 years besides the millenium pavillion? They need to add stuff, at least change the films, to bring people in. It's really just a bunch of shops, and at that they aren't that different from what you find in a mall anymore.

Number two, it is pretty old-fashioned. All the pavillions are either North American or Western Europe (with the exception of Japan, China and Morroco - the big sterotypical 3 foreign places). 25 years ago these may have been a bit exotic, but they are prety much standard for today. And in fact now that we have become a lot more culturally ware, they even appear a bit inauthentic now.

I think the solution is two-fold. One, they have to redo the countries they have there. Perhaps this may be difficult with the respective governments, but bring in more cultural things. Let the countries produce better videos, perhaps more cultural shows and maybe a rotating museum display or something. Second, they need to add more countries - but something that is a little more exotic. How about something from South America, or maybe Africa? It doesn't have to be governmental driven if Disney can learn to be a little more sharing. Work with some of the retailers from those countries, and let them open shops in those countries. Just work with them to make sure they are well themed. They can bring in merchandise easier, and it will likely be more exotic. Look at Mitsukoshi - they have some of the best merchandise in World Showcase.

 

[Thessair]

Personally, I enjoy the walking. Heck, when you go down to WDW you know a lot of footwork is in your future. Walking in Epcot can very relaxing, especially in the World Showcase. Of course, anything beats trying to navigate the maze of stroller death that is Fantasyland.